The Political Discussion Thread

[pookey]

He might and then install some of his people to watch them

[Annoyed]

He might and then install some of his people to watch them

Considering Greece's attitude towards people that try to help them, as shown by Sunday's vote, I doubt Greece will accept meaningful oversight. They just want someone to keep handing them money so they can continue as they have in the past.

[Coco Pops]

I'm not sure if this is true but I read somewhere that Greece before this drama was a huge tax haven for people wanting to dodge on money?

[SGalisa]

It was on the radio??? REALLY?

ummm. Yeah. If the talk radio program hosts weren't bringing up the topic enough times, the callers would. So would the people commenting at the end of the news articles and blogs, and other discussion sites.

MG is a fellow Catholic

I know that. That's why I'm not going to speak for him (meaning lumping all Catholics together, as if we all think the same).
I was speaking from the "Catholic" POV of what I grew up with, instead.

Jesus laid down different rules to your parents, and society has laid down different rules to either of them. Unless you want to hold your parents, or Jesus' over societies, you have no right to "legalise" anything.

I wasn't trying to "Legalize" anything--I don't have that sort of power..
I was using the term "Legaleze" because that is a form of nit-picking when people start lawyering out Bible verses. It's being legalistic, which is what Lawyers often do with the nit-picky details of every rule and regulation to prove someone guilty or innocent.

DO you -WANT- this to be the dark days before the revelation?
I cannot continue on this and be reasonable, but answer this, for yourself, and for nothing else, do you want this to be the end times?

H---NOoooooooooo. I never said I *wanted* it to be now. I never wanted any of it to happen anywhere NEAR or within my own lifetime,either. (nor did I ever want it to happen within my kids and grandkids lifetime -- they's probably curse me for bringing them into this world during that time!)


Just because I'm tracking future events (to see if what the Bible says will come true or not), does NOT translate that I *want* these things to actually occur!

There was a time in my younger life where I heard from the "Christian" community that shortly before the Great and Terrible Tribulation of the entire world, there will be prosperity and peace (P&P). So, has P&P already happened, and Bible study people just misunderstood the degree of how that peace and prosperity would take place (was it in the 1950's?) or is that moment still yet to come?

On the political spectrum, if Donald Trump became USA president in 2016, I could see how events might turn into a prosperous direction. If anyone else gets in, I'm not so sure, unless it is a deceptive moment.

Sorry, but the future looks a bit on the bleak side from my vantage point.
Various news events have only been reinforcing how dark our own time frame has become, and it includes the oceans with marine life dying off in greater numbers, famines, floods and other disasters happening, not just what some socially power hungry people want do to the rest of the planet. That is the bigger (wider) picture -- the macroscopic, all over the whole earth -- not just the (narrow) microscopic tiny stuff happening here or there.

BTW, I don't have time to reply to the other stuff yet. So, that will have to wait. But on the short note, it's very confusing trying to keep up with your (Gatefan1976) comprehension of the Bible, because it just seemed to go all over the place. I will need to take more time to re-read everything before saying too much.

What exactly is the Bible? A law book? The Torah is the LAW. The rest--Not TOTALLY all law stuff. It's mostly a bunch of little books/scrolls revealing the history about one group of people, Israelite (includes the Hebrew people also known as Jews in the 20th/21st century), and how they connected in their family trees and lived socially with the rest of the world; as well as spiritually obeyed, disobeyed, repented, obeyed, disobeyed, repented, etc with a GOD who chose them to bring a "Savior" into the world to rescue all of humanity (from their own selfish "sin" nature), as promised in Genesis 3:15. God allowed Adam& Eve to take and give humanity's deed over to the serpent, which had to be bought back, BY GOD (and this is complicated to explain here) in some sort of rescue attempt (long, dragged out story..).

When God's Law(s) were broken, yes, a death penalty punishment was stated as the ultimate price to pay for acts of disobedience done. According to most Protestant/Evangelical POV -- the proverbial *Prison sentence* leading up to that death penalty (of any God-ordained LAWS broken) got paid in full, when the deed to rescuing humanity from the serpent's clutches ended at the cross (which is also a cross-road intersecting line between heaven and earth), which Jesus was nailed to. Faith in believing the whole story as true, as Jesus stated it (HIS LIFE is that payment). Additionally, there's the drama of prophetic events yet to come involving the entire world, and a whole lot of philosophical and psychological living explained in between.

It's late, I'm straining the brain, so more on this *maybe* later.
The beauty of the Bible is that no one is forcing anyone to believe it. What the "Church" inquisitions did down thru the centuries was outright wrong. Most of the clergy were corrupted to begin with, who were forcing the inquisitions on both believers and non-believers. Read Ezekiel 34:1-31. Next to Jesus' prayer in John 17, this is God's heart speaking to the world. If the corrupted Church folks would realize what those verses truly mean, there might not have ever been as much heart aches happen down thru history, as what did happen (the legalistic Temple Priests and corrupted "Church" leaders used politics as their mighty swords of imposing *justice* even on innocent souls...for what or who's gain..??). Beyond this, I might have to post the rest in the designated "religion" topic.

[garhkal]

Providing birth control etc is not a sex act. It's harm reduction. If they're going to do it anyway you can at least minimise the harm. Teen pregnancy rates are higher in places with abstinence-only education. On a similar subject, children in D.A.R.E. disproportionately end up abusing drugs. "Just say no" clearly doesn't work so well.

So then why if its "Harm control" is it being done without the parents say so/knowledge? By that logic, then shouldn't kids get 'forced immunizations' regardless of what the parents say?

It's still not good for them when both parties are underage, but you can't hold either party accountable when they're both stupid kids. What are you supposed to do, charge them with statutorily raping each other? There's an actual basis for age of consent laws. As a teenager your brain is still developing, particularly impulse control and the ability to properly understand risk. Combine that with raging hormones and you have a recipe for stupid..

True their hormones do rage on. But we have seen many cases where someone even as young as 11, has been tried as an adult for the crimes they committed, cause of the nature of them.
So why in some regards are kids 'treated like kids, while others they are treated as adults??

We can't even define the age of adulthood for other issues as well. You can vote or be drafted and killed in a war at 18, but you can't legally drink until 21.

Very true Annoyed. We have multiple ages of 'consent/adult hood'.
I can get a DL in several states as young as 15, most at 16. I can smoke at 18 (though some areas are wanting that upped to 21, and 2 that i know already made it law), can join the military at 17 (with parental ok), but can't drink till 21..

I don't see any obligation for either Germany, the U.S. or anyone else to step in and help, as we would in a natural disaster. This is not the result of a natural disaster, it's the result of stupid decisions on Greece's part, and their steadfast refusal to take corrective action on their own.

Neither do i see any obligation to step in and save them, but you just KNOW the bleeding hearts out there will rant and rave that we need to 'save them from themselves'. or "we need to help out the aged/youths, its not THEIR fault..."

All that fearmongering... it's quite ridiculous. Look at your own religion and see what sort of hatred they spread!

So what hatred (Currently) does Christianity spread? Other than the obvious one about gay marriage being wrong.

IF being the operate word, cause it's never going to happen...

With how quickly they are spreading, i wouldn't be so sure of that.

If there's one thing we can all agree on, then it is that Israel has quite the fire power and no shame in using it against anyone attacking their state.

Agreed. But just like the consistent condemnation they get after they retaliate against the Palastinians each and every time they get attacked, i can easily see the same level or WORSE coming to them if/when they DO strike out against ISIS.

Last I heard, there will be no more emergency loans given to the Greek banks as of tomorrow.

GOOD!.

They could be.

Show me that island. Sounds like it has a very small population!

Oh, learned a new word. I thought polygamy referred to both.

Just like i did. Had someone point it out to me elsewhere. Same with misandry being the male version of Mysogony.

Kinda like guessing a lady's age wrong...

Even then, luckly all i have had happen is them frown at me and say "Bloody cheeky bugger".

As if Christiany on a whole hasn't done that before. Every religion has committed that particular crime at least twice over.

Not sure Buddists have. BUT i will give you Christianity has in the past.. BUT that is it, we were that way back then. Islam has been that way back then and SINCE.

Agreed. 61% of Greeks don't want to have more budgetcuts. They want their debts esponged. No way, josé!

Just like i heard some college students are wanting Obama (supposedly) to pressure colleges to erase their debt...
You earned it. you owe it. PAY IT!

There's something to be said in favor of voting while sober...

How's about just voting when SMART? I swear we get a lot of people these days just voting for someone they like, rather than actually looking into what that person stands for/their record etc..

You DO realise I was being massively generous with 200 per week, yes?

And do you realize that if one gets EBT, they usually (can't quote figures here) also get a lot more benefits. So just cause their EBT may only be say 300 a month that is NOT all they are earning from the govt teet.

Run riot over their own country?, Hmm. Perhaps we should let them. What right does any nation have to interfere with the internal politics of another nation or state?
Does China have the right to invade the US because they don't like some part of US law, or how it treats it's citizens?

How's about stopping them murdering thousands of Copic Christians? Or should we let them slaughter everyone NOT a follower, and just wait till they leave that area and hit us before acting?

Continued next post!

[garhkal]

What you consider significant, and what others deem the same can, and probably are wildly different SG.

Very true. just like what i consider a good ruling others may not.. We all have and should be entitled to our opinions and be allowed to state them. it just seems certain segments of society seem to want to quash any dissenting opinions.

I believe the LSoS got elected because the Republicans put up a candidate (McCain) that many people on the right including myself could not support and would not vote for.

For a very long time now, the National Republican party has been behaving more like Democrats than the Republicans they claim to be. Many of us on the right will not vote for someone simply because he's on the Republican ticket, he has to act as and be a Republican to get our votes.

And the same thing is going to happen in 2016. They'll throw up a RINO that does not energize the right side of the electorate, so many of us will abstain, while the Dems will run Hillary, who will bring out the Dem voters.

So I expect we'll end up with Hillary as our next President.

Unfortunartely i feel the same way. Too many republicans i know say they won't vote for a GOP candidate cause they can't stand any of the 14+ running. And its that apathy imo which just might get Hillary in the WH.
And imo if she does get there, we are done for.

Thank you for the explanation, Womble.



Is there really no candidate among the 16 (?)* republicans who might favor your vote?

* (?) not entirely sure, it's 16

Kasich, Carson, Trump, Rubio and maybe Walker for me.

I, ad many others like me will not support a candidate who does not represent our views, no matter which party he is running for.

Annoyed, imo its cause of that apathetic belief, that IMO we got Obama. Do you really want Hillary in office?

I think it's a foregone conclusion. Who else have the Democrats got?
I realize that Hillary is about as scandal ridden as they come, but that won't deter most Dem. voters.

And IMO its cause of all those scandals she has been in, that she is UNFIT for the office, so i will be voting GOP..

[Britta]

So then why if its "Harm control" is it being done without the parents say so/knowledge? By that logic, then shouldn't kids get 'forced immunizations' regardless of what the parents say?

Because if parents have to be informed, a lot of children won't be willing to seek help. They should be able to get immunisations too without their parents knowledge, if they want to. Parents don't have a right to endanger their childrens' health as a punishment for behaviour they disapprove of, or over pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo.

True their hormones do rage on. But we have seen many cases where someone even as young as 11, has been tried as an adult for the crimes they committed, cause of the nature of them.
So why in some regards are kids 'treated like kids, while others they are treated as adults??

When a crime is bad enough, people just want someone to pay. It doesn't matter if the culprit is legally responsible. It doesn't matter if the accused actually did it. They generally manage to convince themselves that these things are true, though. Sometimes they even do this without the crime part, like pretending an accidental fire is arson.

[Annoyed]

Unfortunartely i feel the same way. Too many republicans i know say they won't vote for a GOP candidate cause they can't stand any of the 14+ running. And its that apathy imo which just might get Hillary in the WH.
And imo if she does get there, we are done for.

If you ask me, we're done for already. And it's too late to turn things around. our economy is going to crash, along with the rest of the society in 25 years or less. Pay attention to what is happening in Greece, we're going down the same road.

Annoyed, imo its cause of that apathetic belief, that IMO we got Obama. Do you really want Hillary in office?

In my situation, being in NY State, my vote doesn't matter a hill of beans. NY is a winner take all state when it comes to the electoral college system. 4/5ths of the state's population is NYC & Albany (state capitol) which are guaranteed to vote Democratic. NY's electoral votes haven't gone to a Republican since 1984. So I'm not helping the Dems in the slightest by abstaining from the Presidential race, as I did in both 2008 & 2012.

[Falcon Horus]

Does anyone think that the LSoS is not stupid enough to loan these deadbeats money?

No.

There will be no loaning of money, as by decree of the European Central Bank. Greece will simply squander it all, as they did the previous loans. What they want, is a clean slate. To start fresh.

Europe's gonna have to fix it - either by kicking Greece out of the Eurozone which will have consequences for the zone, or come up with a viable plan to have Greece work on a viable plan to make it through the crisis and rebuild the economy.

I think the Eurozone should kick Greece out, with a promise they can get back in when they've got their affairs in order. Every country which wants to join the Euro has to adhere to meet the requirements before joining. Greece no longer meets those requirements. So clean up first, then we can talk rejoining.

The beauty of the Bible is that no one is forcing anyone to believe it.

Really? Cause if I didn't know any better it's exactly that stupid book which is always coming into play when readers and followers of it oppose something that goes against their believes.

How many times haven't we heard, "It says so in the Bible."?

But we have seen many cases where someone even as young as 11, has been tried as an adult for the crimes they committed, cause of the nature of them.
So why in some regards are kids 'treated like kids, while others they are treated as adults??

Because of the sort of crime they committed... for example: 10 Youngest Murderers in History

Of those 10, the Jamie Bulger case happened during my teenage years, and I remember that case being all over the news at the time.

So what hatred (Currently) does Christianity spread? Other than the obvious one about gay marriage being wrong.

Isn't that enough? How does that fit into the oh so popular God loves all or Jesus loves all? That some men are more than others? White folk are better than black folk?

Throughout history and straight into modern times, some Catholics have hated upon as many things as some Muslims did throughout history and straight into modern times.

Agreed. But just like the consistent condemnation they get after they retaliate against the Palastinians each and every time they get attacked, i can easily see the same level or WORSE coming to them if/when they DO strike out against ISIS.

Except that ISIS aren't classified as innocent civilians, which most of the victims of their last Gazan war were... that's a big plus for me, as in, I won't shed a tear over it.

Show me that island. Sounds like it has a very small population!

Pitcairn, Aruba, Curacao, Sint-Maarten, Bonaire, Sint-Eustatius, Saba, ...

Not sure Buddists have.

They could very well be the odd ones out.

BUT i will give you Christianity has in the past.. BUT that is it, we were that way back then. Islam has been that way back then and SINCE.

I posted a list about Christianities crimes throughout history - and was surprised to find fairly recent results. So, wouldn't be too sure about that.

How's about just voting when SMART? I swear we get a lot of people these days just voting for someone they like, rather than actually looking into what that person stands for/their record etc..

Only vote if you've actually know what you're voting for. Like have you read the program, and know exactly what you are voting for... otherwise it's a popularity contest in which afterwards one has to go "Wait, I didn't vote for that." -- Yes, you did you idiot!

How's about stopping them murdering thousands of Copic Christians? Or should we let them slaughter everyone NOT a follower, and just wait till they leave that area and hit us before acting?

Not just Christians, also Devil worshippers, Shiites, Jews, ...anyone that doesn't follow the Sunnis way of extreme Islam.

Kasich, Carson, Trump, Rubio and maybe Walker for me.

I looked them all up cause of I've heard of Carson, Trump and Walker. Rubio, too, but forgot about him. I'd have to say that as far as Immigration and Financial politics go, they have an okay attitude to follow. Pro-life, anti-equality, however, is sadly a big turn-off for me. And if I remember correctly, Carson has made some rather far-off comments about homosexuality in general that made me question his degree in learning.

If personal religious believes influence your political teachings than the line between the separation of church and state become really blurred.

If you ask me, we're done for already. And it's too late to turn things around. our economy is going to crash, along with the rest of the society in 25 years or less. Pay attention to what is happening in Greece, we're going down the same road.

I wouldn't worry about the US just yet. However, I did hear on the radio yesterday that the US is going to have to do some budgetcutting in its military spending.

So I'm not helping the Dems in the slightest by abstaining from the Presidential race, as I did in both 2008 & 2012.

So, what are you complaining about? No vote, no voice!

[Coco Pops]

I wouldn't worry about the US just yet. However, I did hear on the radio yesterday that the US is going to have to do some budgetcutting in its military spending.

But the warhawks won't allow that. They will protest to their dying breath :/

Or fabricate some kind of dire emergency that needs military spending.

[Annoyed]

So, what are you complaining about? No vote, no voice!

Do you understand how our electoral college system works?
In my situation, my voting or not voting in the presidential race is utterly meaningless regardless of what I do.

[mad_gater]

well the electoral college was ORIGINALLY designed to be a way to force presidential candidates to campaign in every state in the Union instead of focusing just on states with the highest population density and leaving the rest to go pound salt as they would if the selection were based on popular vote

however I think the EC system got hijacked a while ago....however one fix for this issue is one that's been talked about plenty of times before....everything in NYS that is not Albany and NYC/Long Island should secede from Albany, NYC, and LI and form its own state in the Union...that way we can watch and munch on popcorn while what's left of what used to be a unified NYS collapses under the weight of its own liberal fiscal policies

[Annoyed]

well the electoral college was ORIGINALLY designed to be a way to force presidential candidates to campaign in every state in the Union instead of focusing just on states with the highest population density and leaving the rest to go pound salt as they would if the selection were based on popular vote

however I think the EC system got hijacked a while ago....however one fix for this issue is one that's been talked about plenty of times before....everything in NYS that is not Albany and NYC/Long Island should secede from Albany, NYC, and LI and form its own state in the Union...that way we can watch and munch on popcorn while what's left of what used to be a unified NYS collapses under the weight of its own liberal fiscal policies

I think everyone in NY west of the Hudson river would like to see NYC and Albany removed from NY and form the 51st state.

[Falcon Horus]

Do you understand how our electoral college system works?
In my situation, my voting or not voting in the presidential race is utterly meaningless regardless of what I do.

I do, courtesy of my highschool history teacher who explained it in great detail. Though had to divide the class up into Democrats and Republicans to do so. It was a very interesting and at the same time very funny class that day.

No matter, you willingly don't vote because in your opinion it won't matter. Even if it doesn't matter, at least you held fast to your right to vote. And afterwards, you say I voted. Every vote counts even if it's for the losing side.

I voted for the losing side last elections over here, and I was well aware I was voting for the losing side. Even though, we can decide not to vote by ways of leaving the form blank, not going to vote isn't an option. Voting is mandatory from the age of 18. I will never leave a voting form blank, thinking that my vote won't matter. Every vote matters... Just ask the people of the Prince Edward Island off the coast of Canada --> Liberal Alan McIsaac wins seat in coin toss after recount tie.

[Annoyed]

Well, my thinking is that since my vote for the presidency doesn't matter, the only way I have any voice is to NOT vote for the Republican candidate that I do not support, the message being that I will not vote for someone simply because they have an R next to their name. Put up a candidate I like, and I'll vote for him.

It should be noted that I did and always will go to the pols to vote on other races, I simply do not vote in the presidential race.

Every vote matters... Just ask the people of the Prince Edward Island off the coast of Canada --> Liberal Alan McIsaac wins seat in coin toss after recount tie.

That's not true under the electoral college system. NY is a "winner take all" state; whichever candidate wins the popular vote gets ALL of the states' electoral votes. They are not split between winner and loser proportionally.

NY is sharply divided. Downstate; NYC & Albany which is the state capitol are overwhelmingly Democratic. As are the other 3 large cities within the state.
Upstate, outside of the cities is heavily Republican.
4/5th's of the state's entire population is NYC, and votes Democratic.

So, the Dem candidate is certain to win the popular vote. And therefore, ALL of the electoral votes.

So effectively, my vote in the presidential race means absolutely nothing.

So, 4/5th's of the states voters vote Democratic