The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...-1227346193452

Best to ignore the clickbait headline.

They are not outlawing cash just giving retailers more cashless options.

Interesting times afoot for the Danes...

Anyone here live there can tell us more about this?

I don't live there, but I'd say this is a bad idea for several reasons.

First, last and always, do you trust the government (ANY government) enough to allow them to track every nickel you spend, and where you spend it? I certainly don't.

And then there is the problem of identity theft, fraud, hacking of people's spending accounts and so forth..

The merchants, via the Chamber of Commerce spokesman tell you what they're trying to do right here:

“Plus, cash has become tremendously expensive to handle due to security reasons.”

The risks and costs of using and protecting cash is borne by the merchant; if he gets robbed, he's out, he has to pay for safes, armored cars, etc.. In a cashless society, the risk of theft is borne by the individual; he is the one who faces the prospect of ID theft, fraudulent use of their accounts, computer errors, and such.

The businesses just want to offload that cost onto the customer. Nice try, but no cigar as far as I'm concerned.

It is just fine the way it is now, if a customer wants to pay cashless, fine, let him. But the option for a cash transaction should always be available.

[SoulReaver]

I concur with Annoyed on this one
if it ain't broke don't fix it. especially when it comes to commerce where technological "progress" has an uncanny tendency to work against the commoner


in a 100% virtual cash society Hacker IT Security Expert will be one of the most sought after qualifications

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

But.. I don't want to carry bags of shiny pennies with me all the time.. They're heavy!

And really shiny.. I find it hard to let them go..

Using my card is so much easier.. And why would the government want to track my spending? I'm not that interesting

It seems like a strange thing to be worried about.. Noo!! The government knows I buy food! The horror! How will I live knowing people know I eat!

[Coco Pops]

I am in agreement with Annoyed too..

The excuse of expense is a false one. "it costs money to maintain cash" bullshtako..

I wonder how they bribed the pollies to go along with this idea..

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

The "passing the cost of handling cash onto the customers" thing.. Businesses use their money to cover costs.. and they make their money from the customers. So you are paying for their cash handling fees anyway..

And minting coins costs money, printing notes costs money. Having to replace currency because of forged notes and coins costs even more money..

Using a card to transfer numbers from your account to the business account saves money for everyone.

*passes ^ a tinfoil hat* How dare they try to make spending money easier and more convenient! *angrily shakes fist*

[SoulReaver]

it'd be funny to watch someone unable to pay for the simplest thing cause their card's been "frozen" for w/e reason hehe...

anyway if money goes 100% online, I'm taking a crash course in IT. make it 3
(to, uh, further familiarize myself with this new word - pure scientific curiosity of course )

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

it'd be funny to watch someone unable to pay for the simplest thing cause their card's been "frozen" for w/e reason hehe...

anyway if money goes 100% online, I'm taking a crash course in IT. make it 3
(to, uh, further familiarize myself with this new word - pure scientific curiosity of course )

It'd be funny to watch someone unable to pay for the simplest thing cause their cash turned out to be fake hehe...

No system is 100% secure. Cash is easier to fake and easier to steal.

[SoulReaver]

It'd be funny to watch someone unable to pay for the simplest thing cause their cash turned out to be fake hehe...

No system is 100% secure. Cash is easier to fake and easier to steal.

fake cash? that's found out long after payment
for all I know I may have paid with fake cash several times

virtual cash easier for those other than the owner to control (virtual cash ain't really your cash)

btw easier to fake too, cause you know, digital...

it's like those who would replace real voting with 100% online voting. lol

[Annoyed]

"Virtual" cash will be alot easier for the government to steal, too. Once they go cashless, the govt. can declare their paper money null and void.
This gives govt. effective control of the entire country's money. They can arbitrarily confiscate it, nationalize it, or whatever psuedonym you want to use for theft.
And of course, they can see how much $ everyone has. How long before some nitwit gets the idea that people with more $ than they have have too much money, and rationalize some excuse for that "excess" cash to be nationalized?

Government is not to be trusted. Yours, Mine, or anyone else's for that matter. And there is no compelling reason to trust them with all of the country's money.

[Coco Pops]

"Virtual" cash will be alot easier for the government to steal, too. Once they go cashless, the govt. can declare their paper money null and void.
This gives govt. effective control of the entire country's money. They can arbitrarily confiscate it, nationalize it, or whatever psuedonym you want to use for theft.
And of course, they can see how much $ everyone has. How long before some nitwit gets the idea that people with more $ than they have have too much money, and rationalize some excuse for that "excess" cash to be nationalized?

Government is not to be trusted. Yours, Mine, or anyone else's for that matter. And there is no compelling reason to trust them with all of the country's money.

And the other thing for those that love their freedom.

If this is put in place the govt, via the banks will know exactly where you are and how you spend your money, and what you are doing at those exact moments. More bolts to build the surveillance society and Orwell would be having yet another orgasm of delight at being right..

[jelgate]

Government already knows where we spend our money.

[Womble]

http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...-1227346193452

Best to ignore the clickbait headline.

They are not outlawing cash just giving retailers more cashless options.

Interesting times afoot for the Danes...

Anyone here live there can tell us more about this?

They're actually discussing something like that in Israel, too.

The first and most obvious benefit of cashless society is that it would largely strangle the criminal economy. Criminal transactions - the trade in drugs, stolen and smuggled goods, illegal weapons, ransom payments etc. - is almost always cash. Cash also plays significant role in money laundering. Theft - especially pickpocketing - would become far less prevalent and damaging. Even when it comes to identity theft issues, the fact that all transactions can be electronically tracked means they can also be reversed if found wrongful.

Obviously, it would also make tax collection much easier.

A wrongful credit card charge is much easier to dispute and reverse than a cash transaction.

Speaking of reversing transactions, I also do not agree that a cashless economy would offload the risks from the merchant to the consumer. Let me tell you a story from my professional experience. Two years ago, a large group of tourists from Kenya bought flight tickets at my agency in a transaction worth close to $20 000. Credit card payments take time to clear, and their payment was not yet cleared when they completed the flight, called their credit company and canceled the transaction claiming it was a wrongful charge. We never got our money.

Then there are the savings of time and money that come from eliminating the businesses' need to handle cash (most people don't realize just how much it costs). When any smartphone (and soon smartwatch) can be used as a payment device, it really does make one wonder about the need to carry a wallet full of metal, paper and plastic. There's a reason why the vast majority of people are already opting to pay by credit card and electronic payment means whenever possible.

Personally, I find myself paying something in cash only in very specific situations. I pay my utility bills at the post office in cash because the government monopolies to which I pay do not provide any other option for someone who rents rather than owns the property they live in. I pay cash for taxi if I can't book it in advance (otherwise, Uber or GetTaxi apps are much more convenient). I pay cash for small purchases of under 30 shekels. I need coins for the soft drinks machine at work because it's one of the old ones where you can't swipe a card or send a text to pay. I pay cash for an occasional bus ride if my bicycle is not in working order. That's about it. Had Israel gone completely cashless, I would only benefit really. Faster check outs, bonuses from various loyalty programs applying automatically to appropriate transactions - lots of good stuff for the consumer really.

Downsides do exist, of course, even outside of the ever-paranoid "the government will track every nickel you spend". Cashless economy makes it obligatory to have a bank account and a debit card. This could be a problem for people with bad credit and people who, for a multitude of reasons, might not have a bank account or qualify for opening one. Smartphone payments largely circumvent this, but not everyone uses a smartphone.

Then there's the question of solvency of small businesses. Debit and credit card payments can take up to a week to clear, while goods and services purchased will have to be provided immediately. For a large company that isn't a problem, but for a small (and new) business, it's a major hurdle.

[Womble]

Government is not to be trusted. Yours, Mine, or anyone else's for that matter. And there is no compelling reason to trust them with all of the country's money.

That is a nonsense argument in light of the fact that the government is the one who issues and guarantees all of the country's currency in the first place.

The government can, if they so desire, devalue currency overnight or declare that those stacks of $100 bills that you keep under your mattress are no longer legal tender.

[Coco Pops]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g

I'm not sure what to make of this....

Are they trying to say "print money without the banks" and problem solved?

[Annoyed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIhDdST27g

I'm not sure what to make of this....

Are they trying to say "print money without the banks" and problem solved?

I don't have 2 hours to watch that right now.. But the U.S. has been "printing money" since 1971, when the dollar was delinked from the gold standard. And I did note the first few minutes of that at least does talk about our debt problem a lot.

As I've said before, A democracy cannot long survive once the people discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury.

This happened in the U.S. with the rise of the welfare state in the middle of the last century.

Nowadays, there are more people riding on the cart being pulled along by the people who do work for their livings than there are people actually working and pulling the cart. As a result, all a politician who wants to win or keep his seat has to do is promise to give more to the FSA's (Free Shiznit Armies) than the other guy does.

Problem is that the govt. has to get that money before it can give it away. And to get that money, we have been borrowing it and printing more of it as needed. Since the dollar is no longer linked to any standard such as gold, exactly how much is that dollar worth?