The Political Discussion Thread

[SGalisa]

SGalisa, do you have ANY concept on how Military hardware functions?
I ask simply because you really seem to have no Idea how these things work. Hamas is firing Man portable rockets into Israel, so their delivery system can be moved at a moment's notice, it is EXACTLY why they can hide in civilian populations. Israel's defence (Iron Curtain) is performed by highly trained weapon operators from stationary platforms. They are trying to hit targets fired from virtually *anywhere* and the targets are less than 2 meters in length, AND they have seconds to respond.
They really are Highly trained people.
...

(sarcasm on)
Really? gosh, I never knew that (huge *sarcasm* there!)
As if I never listened to the radio interviews or had any distant relatives (retired) in (super) special ops (military/army). Not my *cup of tea* so to speak. But I've heard enough radio interviews to know how the Iron Dome works vs. rocket launchers without precision guidance. If I ever had to use either one, this world would be in a huge bit of honking trouble--"sargent Klutzo at your service!!"
It'd be the worst comedy of errors committed anyone would ever see!
(OMG!!! Mad, CRAZY woman on the loose!!! runnnnnnn for yur life!!! =)

It's not that we are looking at Israel as the aggressor, we are looking at them using a hammer when they need a scalpel.

Ahh, I see.
Because civilians did not stand up to heavily armed people telling them to "park their arse or get shot", those civilians are cowards?
As to it's purpose, I would think it was pretty obvious, make the Enemy look bad.

The Iron Dome is/was a scalpel. Precision guidance system on the Israeli side with shoot off rockets wherever they might do the most damage on the Palestinian Hamas side.

Question. From where do the Palestinians come from? Esau? If they are related to Jacob's brother, of course they should be able to live in the same land--but both sides need to stop feuding with each other like or worse than the North vs. the South (wars)..!
Israel's land mass was also called Palestine (or "the Land of Palestine") when Jesus (of Nazareth) walked upon Israel's ancient ground. To me, it makes sense on this is how the whole scenario is connected. Prior to Palestine, the regions were divided up by tribal names, meaning the name of each of Jacob's sons. The name "Israel" comes from Jacob, when he "wrestled" with the Angel of the Lord (God) in a dream. *wink*


As for who is doing right or wrong in Israel/Gaza at the moment, that is another story because it ends in prophecies being fulfilled about that entire region. And as stated before, I'm not going to post about it here other than mention it.

In the meantime, strong feeling -- there goes (Jewish) Israel into another exile in the near future, b/c the world seems to be demanding it.. There is no perfect solution to help both and all sides involved.

[Gatefan1976]

I often find, and this isn't aimed at anyone nation or person, that the word TERRORIST is often used as a word to silence any kind of argument or dissenting, or opposing view of the majority.

IMHO

I did not use the word lightly, nor was it my "go to" word to describe what I was talking about. I agree with you in spirit however. The difference between what you are describing (argument shutdown), and what I was trying to convey is mile's apart however. I did not say that Israel's defence of itself is a "terrorist act", it clearly is not, a was ONLY, and specifically referring to the -warnings- that are given, especially when those warnings are not in the form of a "phone call" but a "small mortar round"
Nothing says "we care about you" more than a light "pre bombing mortar strike"

[Coco Pops]

Clearly BOTH sides are in the wrong.

[Gatefan1976]

(sarcasm on)
Really? gosh, I never knew that (huge *sarcasm* there!)

Engage Deadpan response

As if I never listened to the radio interviews or had any distant relatives (retired) in (super) special ops (military/army). Not my *cup of tea* so to speak.

Yes, because our families are unique in having service people in them.

But I've heard enough radio interviews to know how the Iron Dome works vs. rocket launchers without precision guidance. If I ever had to use either one, this world would be in a huge bit of honking trouble--"sargent Klutzo at your service!!"
It'd be the worst comedy of errors committed anyone would ever see!
(OMG!!! Mad, CRAZY woman on the loose!!! runnnnnnn for yur life!!! =)

While I appreciate your levity of response in a tough subject, all you are showing is that you *really* don't know how these things work. as demonstrated by the next line:

The Iron Dome is/was a scalpel. Precision guidance system on the Israeli side with shoot off rockets wherever they might do the most damage on the Palestinian Hamas side.

The Iron Dome system is a series of Early warning systems (EWS), linked to Surface to air (SAM) missiles that are advanced enough to track not only incoming Missiles/rockets but unguided mortar or ballistic shells (big arse bullets) as well.
It is a SHIELD, not an offensive system. Israel does not respond with Iron shield, it responds with other military technology such as the weapon systems you seem to think Iron shield employs. It also employs far more advanced systems than Palestine does, with a far more destructive payload.
What I have said is that Israel *needs* to use that advanced tech to make sure it hits -ONLY- what it is aiming for. If it *is* using that tech right now, then it becomes quite clear exactly what it is aiming for.
Do they have the right to do it? I argue no, they don't have the right to get a 9/1 kill ratio and call it a "wash" when the 9 are innocent people. Do they argue yes? Of course. I ask however, if I lined up 10 of your family members and shot ALL of them to get "bad uncle Bill", would you consider that act "right" or "justice"? Thinking that is right? How about if I add that of those 10 people, 2 of them are kids under the age of 10.

Still think it is OK?

Question. From where do the Palestinians come from? Esau? If they are related to Jacob's brother, of course they should be able to live in the same land--but both sides need to stop feuding with each other like or worse than the North vs. the South (wars)..!
Israel's land mass was also called Palestine (or "the Land of Palestine") when Jesus (of Nazareth) walked upon Israel's ancient ground. To me, it makes sense on this is how the whole scenario is connected. Prior to Palestine, the regions were divided up by tribal names, meaning the name of each of Jacob's sons. The name "Israel" comes from Jacob, when he "wrestled" with the Angel of the Lord (God) in a dream. *wink*

You *do* realise that most people do not care about your God, his Son, or His predictions, right?
What we see is selfish, ego driven fools clinging to archaic, self serving books and attempting to cover their inhumanity in the cloak of religion. Of course, when you point out that their religion is morally evil, the standard response is "but that was just the fringe elements, not the religion" and people expect us to ignore that it is the religious tenants that drove these arsehole's and protected them.
I am not buying it for a second.

As for who is doing right or wrong in Israel/Gaza at the moment, that is another story because it ends in prophecies being fulfilled about that entire region. And as stated before, I'm not going to post about it here other than mention it.

They are both doing wrong, it's really not that hard to work out. Hamas is being aggressive towards Israel, provoking a response, and Israel is over-responding. Both think they have "god" on their side to justify their acts.
How Handy...........

In the meantime, strong feeling -- there goes (Jewish) Israel into another exile in the near future, b/c the world seems to be demanding it.. There is no perfect solution to help both and all sides involved.

The "world" is not demanding that Israel "go away", and yes their is a solution, put down the books that make you pick up the guns, realise you are just mere men and woman killing other mere men and woman and see that you are ALL just mere men and woman.
It's actually pretty easy if you can do that, but people don't seem to want to do it.

[Gatefan1976]

Clearly BOTH sides are in the wrong.

Yes.

[Falcon Horus]

I was at a friend's house yesterday, and with a second baby on the way she had been cleaning out her closets. She had several books she was going to toss out the window (in a manner of speaking), of which me and my sister saved a fair few (such as her Angel/Buffy/Charmed books, the latin version of the first Harry Potter book). There was one book that caught my interest, not cause it has a hideous cover, but the title.

I started reading and I can highly reccommend it to a lot of you as it's quite close to the current topics in this thread, and the topics that have come and gone in the religious threads and the prophecy-threads.

It's a book (bolded in the short biography) by Rana Kabbani.

Syrian cultural historian, born in Damascus, educated at the American University of Beirut and Jesus College, Cambridge. After working as an art critic in Paris and as a publisher's editor in London, she became a full-time writer in 1986. Europe's Myths of the Orient: Devise and Rule (1986) evaluated Western perceptions of Islamic culture with particular reference to the formulation of erotic stereotypes in literature and painting; the book was later republished as Imperial Fictions: Europe's Myths of the Orient (1994). The increase in hostility towards Islam produced by events following the publication of Salman Rushdie's 'The Satanic Verses' prompted Kabbani to clarify the religious and cultural character of the Muslim world in 'A Letter to Christendom' (1989). Her other works include her translations from the Arabic of Mahmoud Darweesh's 'Sand and Other Poems' (1986) and her editorship of 'The Passionate Nomad: Diaries of Isabelle Eberhardt' (1987).

And an English review of the book.

[SGalisa]

Hamas is firing Man portable rockets into Israel, so their delivery system can be moved at a moment's notice, it is EXACTLY why they can hide in civilian populations. Israel's defence (Iron Curtain) is performed by highly trained weapon operators from stationary platforms. They are trying to hit targets fired from virtually *anywhere* and the targets are less than 2 meters in length, AND they have seconds to respond.
They really are Highly trained people.


It's not that we are looking at Israel as the aggressor, we are looking at them using a hammer when they need a scalpel.

While I appreciate your levity of response in a tough subject, all you are showing is that you *really* don't know how these things work. as demonstrated by the next line:

The Iron Dome system is a series of Early warning systems (EWS), linked to Surface to air (SAM) missiles that are advanced enough to track not only incoming Missiles/rockets but unguided mortar or ballistic shells (big arse bullets) as well.
It is a SHIELD, not an offensive system. Israel does not respond with Iron shield, it responds with other military technology such as the weapon systems you seem to think Iron shield employs. It also employs far more advanced systems than Palestine does, with a far more destructive payload.
What I have said is that Israel *needs* to use that advanced tech to make sure it hits -ONLY- what it is aiming for. If it *is* using that tech right now, then it becomes quite clear exactly what it is aiming for.

Here's what image came to my mind when I first heard about this system, which was lonnnnnnnnng before any of this got mentioned in this specific *political* topic---
Stargate Atlantis' (DOME) shield.
(sorry, that comparison seemed pretty obvious!)

When you say Israel is using a hammer, it's probably the buster bunker bombs that are the hammer. Probably something else is also being used that penetrates the earth, too, but the point is that the precision anti-missile systems are the scalpel -- hence, causing surgical strike(s), not the hammer.. that also depends on (generic) your definition of "hammering" and what is being "hammered". Tunnels for one..

What is the IDF doing with the rocket weapons they're finding in the basements of Palestinian homes and in public building places?? blowing them up in the street or destroying the whole building complex?

Anywho..
Problem with all of this is considering the dense populations of both sides, what goes up also eventually comes down--regardless of where it lands. So, if the missiles Israel is shooting up to blast the rockets out of the sky -- the debris from both systems comes down somewhere!

I heard Israel is still using the Patriot missile system. It has a very complex computer engineering on its programming.
I have a dear relative who worked on its pre-prototype computer system. I didn't know about this until AFTER he was dead (and I had NO idea what he was working on either, other than something for Uncle Sam's research use--cause that is what his job was). He made the program work, but outside of seeing those fitted hole-punched sheets of computer pages and him getting migraines from working on designing the program(s), I never saw what happened to his work, b/c he died years before his program was advanced by (our gov't and I don't know who else) into what is now known as the *Patriot missile* system.

President Reagan nicknamed it the "STAR WARS" system. So, yes, I do have an *idea* of what it does. (And my relative died long ago from a heart attack, but not from the aggravation of making the program actually work, but from angina and related issues of that sort.)
..enough on that.. *sigh*

They are both doing wrong, it's really not that hard to work out. Hamas is being aggressive towards Israel, provoking a response, and Israel is over-responding. Both think they have "god" on their side to justify their acts.
How Handy...........

The "world" is not demanding that Israel "go away", and yes their is a solution, put down the books that make you pick up the guns, realise you are just mere men and woman killing other mere men and woman and see that you are ALL just mere men and woman.
It's actually pretty easy if you can do that, but people don't seem to want to do it.

Just a sidenote--Hamas is or has had its funding done by Iran. Convenient? Iran vowed months ago to wipe out Israel, and Hamas is doing the dirty deed. Hamas is also Sunni, from what I've heard on the radio and read elsewhere. Who else is Sunni...? The Islamic State (formerly ISIS).
War by proxy to take over the land and assimilate or destroy all Israelis?
Earth's historical timelines grow more and more interesting.. now on weekly / almost a daily basis.

[SoulReaver]

Oh, I saw it coming...

so you willingly played into my hands? -_-

[Falcon Horus]

so you willingly played into my hands? -_-

I did, but I care nevertheless.

[SoulReaver]

I did, but I care nevertheless.

so she surrenders then -_-

[Coco Pops]

Both sides in this are wrong.

So who can make them sit at the table and talk peace?

Why does the USA act like Israel's b*tc*?

[jelgate]

That's a simplistic answer to a complex question.

Don't you think people and governments have tried peace negations before?

[Coco Pops]

That's a simplistic answer to a complex question.

Don't you think people and governments have tried peace negations before?

They have...........I mean something has to give before everyone pulls their head in and sues for peace

[Gatefan1976]

Here's what image came to my mind when I first heard about this system, which was lonnnnnnnnng before any of this got mentioned in this specific *political* topic---
Stargate Atlantis' (DOME) shield.
(sorry, that comparison seemed pretty obvious!)

On a site with a bunch of Scifi nuts, sure
However, even Atlantis' shield is merely that, a shield.

When you say Israel is using a hammer, it's probably the buster bunker bombs that are the hammer. Probably something else is also being used that penetrates the earth, too, but the point is that the precision anti-missile systems are the scalpel -- hence, causing surgical strike(s), not the hammer.. that also depends on (generic) your definition of "hammering" and what is being "hammered". Tunnels for one..

Nope.
Let me clarify as something seems to have been lost here.
Surgical strikes target *Specific* targets while leaving everything else alone (to a limited degree). Now, Hamas; by either having madmen in civvies, or by telling civvies that if they leave Hamas will kill them, are making sure that these surgical strikes are really not so surgical. Instead of using bombs and missiles, why not use infiltrated men on the ground to neutralize these people? The cynical answer is, it's far easier, cheaper and less risky to your own troops to just drop a bomb and say that the casualties are ALL military personal, or all willing shields, or just admit you just don't give a crap about who you happen to kill as long as your people are not hurt, throwing out the entire notion of "surgical strike"
Which one do you think is going on here??

What is the IDF doing with the rocket weapons they're finding in the basements of Palestinian homes and in public building places?? blowing them up in the street or destroying the whole building complex?

That depends on where they find them and IF they find them.

Anywho..
Problem with all of this is considering the dense populations of both sides, what goes up also eventually comes down--regardless of where it lands. So, if the missiles Israel is shooting up to blast the rockets out of the sky -- the debris from both systems comes down somewhere!

Sure, but there is a difference between shrapnel and having a bomb explode.

I heard Israel is still using the Patriot missile system. It has a very complex computer engineering on its programming.
I have a dear relative who worked on its pre-prototype computer system. I didn't know about this until AFTER he was dead (and I had NO idea what he was working on either, other than something for Uncle Sam's research use--cause that is what his job was). He made the program work, but outside of seeing those fitted hole-punched sheets of computer pages and him getting migraines from working on designing the program(s), I never saw what happened to his work, b/c he died years before his program was advanced by (our gov't and I don't know who else) into what is now known as the *Patriot missile* system.

Ok, nice story, but irrelevant, sorry.

President Reagan nicknamed it the "STAR WARS" system. So, yes, I do have an *idea* of what it does. (And my relative died long ago from a heart attack, but not from the aggravation of making the program actually work, but from angina and related issues of that sort.)
..enough on that.. *sigh*

Indeed.

Just a sidenote--Hamas is or has had its funding done by Iran. Convenient? Iran vowed months ago to wipe out Israel, and Hamas is doing the dirty deed. Hamas is also Sunni, from what I've heard on the radio and read elsewhere. Who else is Sunni...? The Islamic State (formerly ISIS).
War by proxy to take over the land and assimilate or destroy all Israelis?
Earth's historical timelines grow more and more interesting.. now on weekly / almost a daily basis.

Hamas gets funding from quite a few sources, including Iran and probably others, So what? Israel gets funding from the US and other countries, what is your point?
Israel and it's people are being USED by the West to advance western aims, either geographically, Politically or for some Religiously, and they don't deserve to be so ill-used.

[Gatefan1976]

That's a simplistic answer to a complex question.

Don't you think people and governments have tried peace negations before?

In all honesty?
No.
They make a good public song and dance about "trying for peace", but it's all self serving garbage from both sides.