The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

There's nothing new, except perhaps colleagues snitching on colleagues. Though that last happens even offline so not that new either.

Everything you say or type, can and will be used against you.

I think it's common sense not to speak ill of your employer or the company you work for, unless you like to get fired.

Why do you think I am so secretive of my real identity?

[P-90_177]

Here is what is going on in Australia....... I think our govt. has gone crazy, or more crazy..

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...al-media-posts

and

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...or-free-speech

It worries me.

While this seems overtly harsh, it isn't entirely out of no where. Civil servants are supposed to conduct their role regardless of who is in power and assist the implementation of policy no matter what. The simple reason being that civil servants need to respect the outcome of a democratically held election in order to do their job properly. By all means they can have their own opinions of who they want in power but it should not be something they discuss openly.

Additionally this is something that private corporations have been doing for years. We've all heard of times when people have got the sack for posting something negative about their work to facebook. In that regard this is not really all that different. More widespread perhaps but at the same time the thought probably came from the same place.

[aretood2]

You mean, like what Christianity is trying to do, and has been trying to do in the past with their crusades?
How it has killed infidels, or pagans who refused to convert.

Yeah, I just finished killing some pagans the other night with my Christian buddies. Don't want the next town over to beat us in body count. Can't have the Muslims killing more infidels than us, it wouldn't be 'Murican if us.

The old testament are stories, meant to teach the populus (who couldn't read or write) about morals and ethics. There's nothing historical about it. You will find the same stories all over the middle eastern in different versions. Even in pre-american societies you'll find common elements.

...You're certainly entitled to your opinions, but don't pass it off as a fact when there's evidence to the contrary. And as for not being literate at the time...that's not exactly an open and shut thing. There is evidence for some level of literacy, especially during the existence of the Roman Republic.

The new testament is not so much historical as it is manipulated. They kinda left out a lot of things, however it suited them at Nicea that one time they were talking about what to include and what not to include. So, how can you claim it "prophesices" events?

*More sigh*

I doubt Jesus thought of the crucifixion as his destiny considering it was simply a Roman form of punishment. That's what the bible made of it after the fact.

Really? Where? Or are you confusing it with Catholic Dogma that Protestantism has inherited?

Are the people who have themselves nailed to the cross over Easter on drugs?

Yes, and also sacrilegious as well.

Because it's the believers who fly the planes into the towers. It's the believers who blow themselves up to become martyrs for that belief - taking innocent lives with them. That's why there is cause for concern.

Great Scott! I knew I was forgetting to do something!!!! I just missed my flight.

Whoever does win WWIII, it won't matter ... there is no victory in war, just loss. However, it's rather clear that this lesson has not been learned, and shall never be learned otherwise we wouldn't be having wartorn zones this very moment. Weapons have never solved a problem before, and will never solve a problem in the future. People do.

While I am not a fan of war, I am sure survivors of war crimes who have been rescued are eternally grateful that their rescuers had the weapons needed to rescue them.

Mother Nature is my deity of choice, with a little Horus thrown in for good measure. That falcon is my good luck charm.

So when are you flying your plane into a building? We'll soon run out of planes and buildings, if you don't hurry you'll miss your chance.

Religion - whether genuine or not - has caused more trouble in history than anyone would care to admit.

Yet it is also the glue that helped form civilizations that created history to begin with. Every society was born and made possible because a supernatural origin was given to the rules all the hunters and gathers were forced to subject themselves to in order to have a community where there would be no conflicting moral codes.

Even in Atheistic nations like North Korea, that essence of human nature that brought religion (be it from a divine source or through our natural development) exists in the form of hero worship of their leader. It's not the belief itself, it's not the ideas themselves, but that dark side inside all of us that move us in that direction.

To ignore that we have a darkside and blame an abstract concept for our evils is ingenious and dangerous. No matter what system exists, it will always manifest itself. Take a community of random people and place them on an island, beliefs and ideas (not necessarily religious) will develop. Dominant parties will form, and conflicts will arise over the use of resources and the desire of power. Religion wouldn't be needed, but could be another tool to seek dominance. The week will be targeted to make the rest complacent as the strong take control. It is within our nature

This is why politics is what it is. You don't need the issue of religion, you just need enough people with limited resources and infinite demand. Politicians aren't sleazy out of choice, but out of necessity. They respond to the demands issued by the people. To the demands issued by human nature given the situation. That's why you have the saying "If Jesus was king, I'd want a monarchy."

In the end people are incapable to fully solving problems when it is our nature itself that causes them. This nature has evolved over time and is suited for our survival. Technology, however, is making our annihilation possible which is quite ironic. Our nature that suited us for survival, will destroy us if we don't learn to mitigate it. And that's the key, mitigation. There will always be those who suffer, but we can make them suffer less. That is the most that politics can get us, until we blow ourselves up.

Religion is meant to bring stability, and we hope it will give us a way out. A way to end suffering. But the problem is, that our nature has preferred to use it to gain power, and a fine tool for that it has been, but just a tool not a cause.

[Gatefan1976]

See what happens when you leave a line or 2 out

[Falcon Horus]

I have to admit -- I snorted!

The Less Americans Know About Ukraine's Location, The More They Want U.S. To Intervene -- By Kyle Dropp, Joshua D. Kertzer and Thomas Zeitzoff (April 7 at 10:18 am) for The Washington Post

[Gatefan1976]

Did you see Steve Colbert's going over of that topic FH?

[Falcon Horus]

Did you see Steve Colbert's going over of that topic FH?

I haven't... should I wait to drink from my glass until afterwards?

[Gatefan1976]

Could be wise

[SoulReaver]

So this is what the extinction of the human race is going to be. I thought their would be more locusts

tss...grasshoppers...not locusts...damn joo jel

Creepy

nope, romantic

[SoulReaver]

I have to admit -- I snorted!

The Less Americans Know About Ukraine's Location, The More They Want U.S. To Intervene -- By Kyle Dropp, Joshua D. Kertzer and Thomas Zeitzoff (April 7 at 10:18 am) for The Washington Post

impossible

they obviously included chimps in the survey

Spoiler:

they're the ones who answered right

[SGalisa]

Not competing for the most words, but damn you're hard to keep up with...

.. I usually end up with headaches and migraines from locating and writing all that stuff down. So, I have to walk away to stop thinking for a few hours or a few days.
Stop straining the brain, so to speak.

Multi-multi-multi quoting is getting me very lost, especially in lonnnnnnnnnnnnng posts. However, I'm trying to keep the flow of conversation together without having to go back and look it up.

Seriously?!?

For all you know, I could be an extremist, leading you into goddess knows what...
There's always a suspicion about who's on the other side.

LOL. yah think?
Jeeeeze, all this time I thought sure you've been trying to recruit me into becoming a Muslim.

It's not "recruit into Islam", but "convert to Islam".

Mother Nature is my deity of choice, with a little Horus thrown in for good measure. That falcon is my good luck charm.

Firstly, I was teasing when I replied.. thought that was *obvious* enough.
2ndly, I think a more accurate term for this discussion would be to "convince" that Islam is the better way (better than Christianity or Native American spiritism, etc).

Anyway, it'd probably be more likely that you might try to convince me that atheism or pagan/wiccan is the better way.
..you know the old saying -- "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature!" (lightning/thunder!)
My mom used to tease my dad that she *was* Mother Nature and had magic in her pointing index finger.

On the other extreme, eager beaver Paul looked forward to being crucified.. was Paul on drugs or something???

Are the people who have themselves nailed to the cross over Easter on drugs?

Yes, and also sacrilegious as well.

Has this subject changed from 1st century C.E. to 21st century C.E.?

If referring to 1st century, I have no idea.. it's always been a *disturbing* thought for anyone to look forward to being tortured (with pain felt or not); and I highly doubt if any of the Christians who were slaughtered over the centuries were given any morphine or painkiller drugs just so they wouldn't feel the pain intensity of what they were going thru. Cecil B. Demille films often showed families rounded up and terrified at their point of death--that's being realistic!

If referring to current 20th and 21st century (C.E.) era events, when folks deliberately re-enact being nailed to a cross--up to a few years ago, I always thought that was fake stage blood, etc. The news (media) used to be careful showing folks just having their arms wrapped up with rope around cross beams. If any blood was also displayed (for realism), it often appeared to be the usual fake stage prop stuff used. Not sure if it was fake or real, but to comprehend those folks crucifying themselves for real should also be a concern for after-effect health issues; and I don't mean simple dehydration for *pretending* to go thru the motions.


Disturbing sidenote----I've heard college aged kids talking about deliberately poking themself with nails and other sharp objects to see how much they can tolerate laying on a bed of spiked nails without feeling the pain. The person who told me this was a crazy relative of mine, and when I tried to explain about the medical dangers of tetanus (resulting from rusty nails), he just changed the conversation.

He wanted to be able to do what the India firewalkers do, and buddhist monks because he thought it was unique and cool and might give him some sort of identity to brag about. Not sure if he was looking into taking drugs to block any potential pain, but his gal-pal at the time worked in a local (drug store) Pharmacy, so they could get meds at a discount. Maybe his doctor should have him psych eval'd in the process, if prescribing any such pain blocking meds!

(Thankfully, I've been informed that since he got married and had kids of his own, he's outgrown that phase..!)

...but Christianity is destined to blur out and morph out, which is already happening -- with the internet sort of speeding the process up onto the fast track. *sigh*

That you'll have to explain more, cause I'm not following.

I've mentioned it in the past, but will tackle the issue of Christianity blurring out later.

[SGalisa]

I am wondering what Putin's end game is. Does he want all out war?

What is Vladimir Putin's end game? Don't know. Depends on if/when and how far into Bible prophesy this new restoration of Russia becomes (dynamic duet Gog and Magog teaming up with other nations in the region with movements heading southwards towards Israel--see Ezekiel 38 for further info).

Wow. As the Russian bear rises from hibernation...(that's how someone sort of phrased it on another web site discussion forum), Russia's Gog and Magog (which contains Moscow in its regional area) gov't/military forces seem to be shaping up into..? The 27 March 2014, BBC article mentioned that Vladimir Putin claimed he simply wanted to restore the Russian Empire to the way it was in the old days. (Below quote is trimmed for space.)

...the BBC printed this news blurb in their BBC News Magazine.
It's a lengthy article, but some highlights are mentioned in the spoiler quote below.

Spoiler:

(Link below is broken. --it was cycling too much (bandwidth?) being not broken. Sooooooooo...
Please remove B L A N K spaces in beginning of web address to access article/link for complete details)

http : // www .bbc. com/news/magazine-26769481
"Vladimir Putin: The rebuilding of 'Soviet' Russia"

by Oliver Bullough
BBC News Magazine,
27 March 2014 Last updated at 20:12 ET

Quote--
"The world was stunned when Russia invaded Crimea, but should it have been? Author and journalist Oliver Bullough says President Vladimir Putin never kept secret his intention to restore Russian power - what's less clear, he says, is how long the country's rise can continue.
...

Extract{s} from Putin speech, March 2014
* There was not a single armed confrontation in Crimea and no casualties. Why do you think this was so? The answer is simple: because it is very difficult, practically impossible to fight against the will of the people.
...

According to Vladimir Bukovsky, a dissident who spent a decade in Soviet prisons before his exile to the West in 1976, Putin is totally genuine when he says the disintegration of the Soviet Union was a "geopolitical catastrophe".
...
As a middle-ranking KGB officer who loved the Soviet Union, Putin lacked the perspective of senior officers, who knew full well the Soviet Union collapsed under the weight of its own inefficiency rather than because of Western plotting, Bukovsky says.

"It leads him exactly to… repeat the same mistakes. He wants this whole country to be controlled by one person from the Kremlin, which will lead to disaster," he says.

Putin's decision to invade Crimea was taken quickly and impulsively, by a small group of his favoured top officials. That means Putin has no one to warn him of the long-term consequences of his actions, and until he finds out for himself, he will maintain his course. That means relations with the West will remain uncomfortable, especially in areas he considers to be his "zone of legitimate interests".

But we can't say we weren't warned." (end of quote)

Now that Russia has Crimea in its possession, seems that deja vu is occurring all over again with the Ukraine.
Same tactics being used, and in less than 2 months since Crimea's situation got resolved. Give an inch, take a bunch more miles...!


After the pro-Russian protesters stormed and vandalized Ukraine's gov't buildings (similar to what happened in Crimea), the news reported Putin claiming that EUROPE *may* suffer an energy supply shortage soon, because of the Ukraine's debts (to Russia). In other words, if Russia doesn't get their original properties back one way, they'll use other methods of getting it (by force or coercion).

If that isn't an indirect way of threatening folks on the political spectrum, when the protesting didn't "stir the pot" there, what else is? Oh, and the protesters are back in the news too, so this doesn't seem to be going to go away too soon.

Bold emphasis in below article quote for reinforcement..

Spoiler:

"U.S. accuses Russian agents of stirring eastern Ukraine unrest"

By Arshad Mohammed and Thomas Grove
WASHINGTON/LUHANSK, Ukraine
Tue Apr 8, 2014 7:48pm EDT

quote--
"(Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry accused Russian agents and special forces on Tuesday of stirring separatist unrest in eastern Ukraine, saying Moscow could be trying to prepare for military action as it had in Crimea.
...
The Ukraine government says the occupations that began on Sunday are part of a Russian-led plan to dismember the country. Kerry said he feared Moscow might repeat its Crimean operation.

"It is clear that Russian special forces and agents have been the catalyst behind the chaos of the last 24 hours," he said in Washington, and this "could potentially be a contrived pretext for military intervention just as we saw in Crimea."
...
{end of quote}

For once, John Kerry may have hit it head on. If yes, then what other locations will be next..?
I hate it when people say that we live in *exciting and interesting times*.. That usually translates into bad news.

[mad_gater]

"May you live in interesting times" is an old Chinese curse or so I hear anyway

[The Flyattractor]

But things are the WORST they have ever been...because its HAPPENING TO ME!


That is the tone of the modern age.


Everybody is a whiney little baby.

*calls the Wah-mbulance*

[P-90_177]

But things are the WORST they have ever been...because its HAPPENING TO ME!


That is the tone of the modern age.


Everybody is a whiney little baby.

*calls the Wah-mbulance*

It always strikes me how selfish people are in the world today. Sure people pay a lot into charities (in the UK at least) and that's laudable but beyond that everyone just seems to be in it for themselves. There's no real sense of community or working for a common good any more.