The Political Discussion Thread

[Col.Foley]

Where do these laws come from? You got rid of them with the non caring government. Getting want you what falls under any reason, and with the non caring government (after all, its none of their business), thats a valid enough reason. Laws, freedom of choice? To hell with them, this is what you said.


You cant oust the government along with all of the protections under the laws they enforce then expect people to still follow those laws.

No....

And again no.

Government should not care about marriage, it is a personal affair between two people. Or more in some cases. Government should care when people's rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness are concerned. Governments exisist to secure rights and to keep humans fromd oing harm to each other, then punish people who manage to do so anyways. This is a concept that should be as simplistic as 2 +2 = 4, yet I have to waste my time explaining it because a statement about marriage has some how been used as an excuse to assume I am making a blanket generalization. And even if I were then I have clarified my position, in full, more then once.

No one I know wants to turn around and oppress anyone. Most, like me, what the same rights as anyone else and to be left alone to live my life.

We'll see.

[Col.Foley]

Where do these laws come from? You got rid of them with the non caring government. Getting want you what falls under any reason, and with the non caring government (after all, its none of their business), thats a valid enough reason. Laws, freedom of choice? To hell with them, this is what you said.


You cant oust the government along with all of the protections under the laws they enforce then expect people to still follow those laws.

No....

And again no.

Government should not care about marriage, it is a personal affair between two people. Or more in some cases. Government should care when people's rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness are concerned. Governments exisist to secure rights and to keep humans fromd oing harm to each other, then punish people who manage to do so anyways. This is a concept that should be as simplistic as 2 +2 = 4, yet I have to waste my time explaining it because a statement about marriage has some how been used as an excuse to assume I am making a blanket generalization. And even if I were then I have clarified my position, in full, more then once.

No one I know wants to turn around and oppress anyone. Most, like me, what the same rights as anyone else and to be left alone to live my life.

We'll see.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

We'll see.

Do you want to borrow my tinfoil hat?

You make it sound like there's a GLBT conspiracy..

No one I know wants to turn around and oppress anyone. Most, like me, what the same rights as anyone else and to be left alone to live my life.

Indeed!

Although.. I wouldn't mind being Supreme Overlord of Earth...

[Falcon Horus]

Foley - for some reason your posts show up twice. Must be a GW glitch, I guess.

And then onwards...

How does equality be oppression, I wonder?

[Col.Foley]

Do you want to borrow my tinfoil hat?

You make it sound like there's a GLBT conspiracy..

No conspiracy about it, some people are quite open about it. Hell this whole thing with the Supreme Court partially illistrates my point. There are (hundreds? Thousands? Millions?) of activists gathering on the steps of the USSC in order to protest and hope that the USSC passes a descision giving a rubber stamp approval to their lifestyle, who they love, and how they want to express that love. While I am sympathetic to the plight I do not need the Government to approve of me. I do not seek out government approval when I have feelings for someone, I do not need to justify myself or my life style to the Government, and I sure as hell don't have to justify what kind of relationship I have to the Government unless of course that relationship becomes destructive to that other person's rights.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

No conspiracy about it, some people are quite open about it. Hell this whole thing with the Supreme Court partially illistrates my point. There are (hundreds? Thousands? Millions?) of activists gathering on the steps of the USSC in order to protest and hope that the USSC passes a descision giving a rubber stamp approval to their lifestyle, who they love, and how they want to express that love. While I am sympathetic to the plight I do not need the Government to approve of me. I do not seek out government approval when I have feelings for someone, I do not need to justify myself or my life style to the Government, and I sure as hell don't have to justify what kind of relationship I have to the Government unless of course that relationship becomes destructive to that other person's rights.

But it's about gaining the same rights as everyone else.

No one is asking you to justify your existence. This isn't your fight. You already have these rights. But you seem to want to prevent the gay community from having them too..

[Falcon Horus]

But it's the government who's causing the need for protest. If they hadn't passed DOMA in the first place, then maybe there wouldn't have been reason to protest.

All we want is equality. Is that really too much to ask?

[Col.Foley]

But it's about gaining the same rights as everyone else.

No one is asking you to justify your existence. This isn't your fight. You already have these rights. But you seem to want to prevent the gay community from having them too..

No, actually I don't. The Government is so far involved in this issue that I cannot justify getting married because I have to go to the Government to justify myself and my feelings. So, I do not have the right to get married anymore then you do. Without enslaving myself to a Government beurocracy.

But it's the government who's causing the need for protest. If they hadn't passed DOMA in the first place, then maybe there wouldn't have been reason to protest.

All we want is equality. Is that really too much to ask?

No, its not, on the face of it. But equality is very touchy considering all humans aren't equal to any other. You can be 'equal under the law' and if you want to be that I support you one hundred percent...again as long as you do not oppress anyone else. I will take your word for it, for the moment, that you do not want to do any such thing so our interests are aligned, but there are others who are actually trying to go out of there way to stick it to people.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

No, its not, on the face of it. But equality is very touchy considering all humans aren't equal to any other. You can be 'equal under the law' and if you want to be that I support you one hundred percent...again as long as you do not oppress anyone else. I will take your word for it, for the moment, that you do not want to do any such thing so our interests are aligned, but there are others who are actually trying to go out of there way to stick it to people.

So denying gay people the right to marry doesn't count as oppression?

Our interests are not aligned. I want equality. You want to block it for your own sense of superiority.

[Gatefan1976]

I can't believe I am gonna say this.

You guys are misreading Foley.

[SoulReaver]

[OT] come to think of it the right to self-defence is also an equality issue

[Falcon Horus]

You guys are misreading Foley.

Then by all means, weigh in. Please do!

At this very moment, I see him being afraid of being oppressed by someone (I have no idea who though) or by a group of individuals (which again he's not naming). I don't think anyone of us would want that, being oppressed I mean.

As far as I understand it, Foley believes the Government has no right to interfere with how he feels or with marriage as a whole, and by extension shouldn't be giving all the 1,138 benifits in total to anyone, be they gay married or straight married.
Him not getting married - just wait till he meets the right partner, he might sing a different tune then. When love is in the air, he might get blindsided and before he knows it he's walking down the aisle and whether he intends to or not benifit from the Governments 1,138 benifits for married couples.

[Gatefan1976]

Then by all means, weigh in. Please do!

At this very moment, I see him being afraid of being oppressed by someone (I have no idea who though) or by a group of individuals (which again he's not naming). I don't think anyone of us would want that, being oppressed I mean.

I think what Foley is trying to get to here (and he can correct me if he wishes) is that while organizations (such as churches) have no right to "weigh in" on the issue (although they do CONSTANTLY) *when* (and I do hope it is when, not if) Gay couples are afforded those 1,138 rights that are granted under law that the situation does not reverse to an extent and Churches are *forced* to marry couples they may be morally opposed to, or face prosecution. Now, the LGBT community may sit back and say "WTF, we have no intention of doing so" (and I hope that is their position), but people are being told (in churches) that if Gay Marriage is given said rights, they (churches) will be forced to perform marriage ceremonies that they do not wish to perform, thereby infringing on their rights "to choose" as well.

As far as I understand it, Foley believes the Government has no right to interfere with how he feels or with marriage as a whole, and by extension shouldn't be giving all the 1,138 benifits in total to anyone, be they gay married or straight married.

2 separate issues. The government has *no business* telling people what they should feel about a thing. If you believe Gays are evil, that's your bag, you have the right to feel that way, just as everyone else has the right to feel you are a douche for feeling that way.
The rights issue, I get the impression he actually agree's with you.

Him not getting married - just wait till he meets the right partner, he might sing a different tune then. When love is in the air, he might get blindsided and before he knows it he's walking down the aisle and whether he intends to or not benifit from the Governments 1,138 benifits for married couples.

Can't argue with you at all

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

Let Foley speak for himself. He's usually extremely vocal about... everything. Never one to back down from a fight, whether he knows why he's fighting or not..

[Gatefan1976]

Let Foley speak for himself. He's usually extremely vocal about... everything. Never one to back down from a fight, whether he knows why he's fighting or not..

As I said, he is free to correct me, I was merely stating what *I* got from what he said