The Political Discussion Thread

[Bagpuss]

Just a quick word about the insertion of links in posts,seeing it's become a discussion point in here.

Hyperlinks ( plain links) are fine as long as they don't lead to Porn,Profane posts/sites,or anything classifiable as "Not GateWorld friendly" or Viruses/Spam.
(If in doubt about content or links : ask a Mod to check it out.We'd all prefer to help,not yell at any of you or delete posts given the choice! )

What isn't ok: Hotlinking pics and text directly from other sites or to those sites from GW Home or GW Forum.( Unless it's clear you have permission.)

Example : you see a great pic or demotivator and want others to see it on GW...don't just post it in IMG tags : that costs the original site hard cash in bandwidth costs.

Instead,save it to your computer or Hosting account ( eg Photobucket) then load it to the thread via thumbnail ( Attachment) or as a correctly sized image from PB.

Pic size rules and details are listed in several "Help" threads and at the top of OT Chatter in Tame's Announcement.

Individual image max size=100KB.
Pixel ( physical size) -> Max width 700PX to fit the Forum template.

Hope that helps...

[SoulReaver]

Just read about another shooting, this time New York State.

US firefighters shot dead at blaze in Webster, New York

So, should the firemen be armed, too?

now that one's quite interesting - since NY gun laws are very strict compared to the rest of the US (license required, background checks, no carry...the works)

unless that changed recently??

[SeaBee]

now that one's quite interesting - since NY gun laws are very strict compared to the rest of the US (license required, background checks, no carry...the works)

unless that changed recently??

And that is the point I was trying to make (badly) earlier in the thread. I think that until the American people as a whole decide to end their acceptance of guns no amount of legislation is really going to stop the shootings.

[aretood2]

And that is the point I was trying to make (badly) earlier in the thread. I think that until the American people as a whole decide to end their acceptance of guns no amount of legislation is really going to stop the shootings.

Historically, Americans have recently looked to laws to solve social and cultural issues. Which is partly why American Politics differs a lot from the politics of other western nations.

[SoulReaver]

until the American people as a whole decide to end their acceptance of guns

kind of a blanket term - all modern societies accept guns (the only difference being what classes of society this applies to). in a way the UK & AU also have widespread acceptance of guns

Historically, Americans have recently looked to laws to solve social and cultural issues.

historically or recently? '_'

[Gatefan1976]

As Digi pointed out, there really as no sinister conspiracy theory that lead to the consolidation of various pagan traditions into modern day Christmas. You're sounding a bit too much like the guy who saw aliens in Roswell there...But the fact of the matter is that Catholicism as amicable to the incorporation of paganism in "Christianity" and the protestant churches merely inherited their traditions (some of which they hold on to so tightly that any sign of dessent is returned with harsh accusations and social lynching).

Yup, no conspiracy, Christanity outright replaced the holy days of other religions.
No if's, buts, or maybe's, and it did it to advance it's own temporal power. (not a unique thing mind you)

This question is based on a false premise. That false premise being that Christianity intends to be original. If Christianity was "original" then that would violate the very thing that makes it possible to exist, it's strongest foundation. That foundation being Judaism.

Thats quite true, can't have a "second coming" without a first one.

Now, if you want to say that Judaism stole things from other religions (A phrase I have never heard or read in academic circles btw) then your comment wouldn't be nearly as ridiculous..."nearly" being the operative word here.

FH did provide an academic example, the contention that Judaism is an offshoot of Akenaten's Monotheistic POV. Agree, disagree, whatever, thats not my concern. It IS however a academic issue.

Catholicism is not, contrary to popular belief, Christianity in its entirety.

Quite true. But if there is only "one way", who cares?

Please put some thought into it if you do.

Put some thought into your response as well, M'kay.

[aretood2]

kind of a blanket term - all modern societies accept guns (the only difference being what classes of society this applies to). in a way the UK & AU also have widespread acceptance of guns

historically or recently? '_'

The past 100 years as opposed to the past 400 years.

[aretood2]

FH did provide an academic example, the contention that Judaism is an offshoot of Akenaten's Monotheistic POV. Agree, disagree, whatever, thats not my concern. It IS however a academic issue.

That's pure speculation. The greatest piece of evidence is an Egyptian hymn having some similarities with a Pslam. One can equally say that the influence worked the other way around. It was the Hebrews who inspired the cult of Aten. Then again, different cultures came up with pyramids with absolutely no influence between them. It is entirely reasonable that both religions developed independently of each other.

[lordofseas]

That's pure speculation. The greatest piece of evidence is an Egyptian hymn having some similarities with a Pslam. One can equally say that the influence worked the other way around. It was the Hebrews who inspired the cult of Aten. Then again, different cultures came up with pyramids with absolutely no influence between them. It is entirely reasonable that both religions developed independently of each other.

That screams wishful thinking. Entire oceans divided Mesoamericans with Mesopotamians. There could be no collaboration on their part in the development of a stepped pyramid/ziggurat. However, the religious centre of Judaism, Jerusalem, is a scant 600 km away from the centre of Atenism, and slightly further in the opposite direction was Zoroastrianism. Is it reasonable? It's possible, but not probable. As for timelines, Atenism is far before the written materials of Judaism, giving it ample time to permeate the Jewish culture, and Zoroastrianism was developed before a few of the texts of Judaism. And with the trade routes of the Ancient world, it's unlikely that they developed independently, because of the interaction of societies.

[SGalisa]

hmmm.. now, back to the political spectrum of the USA..

While the so-called fiscal "cliff" is about to make most USA'rs get TAXed to the hilt, President Obama has ordered a PAY RAISE for some Federal gov't workers.. one being VP Biden, because apparently making well over 200,000 isn't enough for him to cover the new TAX hike costs.

I put more info about this into the Tracking Earth's future.. topic at here...

(hope the direct link works!)

[lordofseas]

I responded there. :/

[Womble]

That screams wishful thinking. Entire oceans divided Mesoamericans with Mesopotamians. There could be no collaboration on their part in the development of a stepped pyramid/ziggurat. However, the religious centre of Judaism, Jerusalem, is a scant 600 km away from the centre of Atenism, and slightly further in the opposite direction was Zoroastrianism. Is it reasonable? It's possible, but not probable. As for timelines, Atenism is far before the written materials of Judaism, giving it ample time to permeate the Jewish culture, and Zoroastrianism was developed before a few of the texts of Judaism. And with the trade routes of the Ancient world, it's unlikely that they developed independently, because of the interaction of societies.

"Written materials of Judaism" is an attempt at manipulative reasoning on your part. Just because parchment rarely survives for thousands of years doesn't mean that there is no other archaeological evidence for the existence or beliefs of a religion.

The trouble with Atenism is that it was not influential or long-lasting enough to make any kind of impact. It lasted for a mere 20 years and died with its founder. It is pretty damn improbable that there would be much connection.

The Zoroastrian religion did not make inroads westwards untl at least Alexander the Great's conquests. Zoroastrian scriptures are themselves a great deal younger than Jewish ones (around 559BC for Avesta vs. 950BC for the "J source" of the Jewish scriptures if one accepts the documentary hypothesis and Wellhausen dating. (Not really crucial since Friedman's dating puts the writing of the latest of the four sources around 622BC, which still precedes anything Zoroastrian. Plus the documentary hypothesis itself isn't exactly the point of academic consensus it used to be back in the late 19th century.)

[lordofseas]

"Written materials of Judaism" is an attempt at manipulative reasoning on your part. Just because parchment rarely survives for thousands of years doesn't mean that there is no other archaeological evidence for the existence or beliefs of a religion.

And we know they practiced something. We don't know how accurate the texts are to the truth, though. I'm not saying it didn't exist, I'm saying that we don't know the form in which it existed.

The trouble with Atenism is that it was not influential or long-lasting enough to make any kind of impact. It lasted for a mere 20 years and died with its founder. It is pretty damn improbable that there would be much connection.

20 years is still a fair bit of time, and more than enough time to influence other beliefs.

The Zoroastrian religion did not make inroads westwards untl at least Alexander the Great's conquests. Zoroastrian scriptures are themselves a great deal younger than Jewish ones (around 559BC for Avesta vs. 950BC for the "J source" of the Jewish scriptures if one accepts the documentary hypothesis and Wellhausen dating. (Not really crucial since Friedman's dating puts the writing of the latest of the four sources around 622BC, which still precedes anything Zoroastrian. Plus the documentary hypothesis itself isn't exactly the point of academic consensus it used to be back in the late 19th century.)

It's interesting, because you've fallen into the fallacy you've just wanted to point out in me. Yes, nothing was written until those dates you mentioned (though the Avesta was compiled), but Zoroaster lived and died before this. I don't suggest that Zoroastrianism would be a major religion in ancient Palestine, but surely the ancient Hebraic scholars would have at least known about it, and bits and pieces about it. It doesn't take a large amount of information to impact a culture, but a profound piece of information.

[DigiFluid]

Ugh. Can we put Fred Phelps and this asshat in a cage together and let them fight to the death?

[Goose]

I'm game!