The Political Discussion Thread

[Seastallion]

I want you to honestly consider something, and really think about it.
You distrust the business of medicine, and it is a business, you want to give your country to a person who cares, and is trained for "profit only", just like the medicorps you distrust.
Do you really think he will "help America"??
America DOES need a dispassionate eye sometimes, we all do, but as the "ultimate Arbiter", I think not.

It is true that I distrust the Pharm. Companies, and many other of the large corporations. I do not believe they should be treated as 'individuals' as they currently are under law. On the other hand, I do NOT mistrust all business people. There are some good, hardworking, and decent people out there. From what I know of Mitt Romney, he has been hardworking and generous with his time and money. The guy gave away his entire inheritance to Charity. Granted he had his own money by then, but still. That was a lot of money to give away. The guy has a long history of being very charitable, giving significant sums of his personal income. Even Democrats don't fault him on his personal record of charitable works.

All that alone makes me hopeful about the guy.

sigh. What do you know of economics?

Not nearly as much about it as Romney. I do know you can't tax and spend your way to a good economy. I do know that you have to live within your means, which the gov't has NOT been doing. I do know that small businesses do better in a Free Market when they aren't regulated to death. I do know that using domestic energy is preferable to using foreign sources. I do know that higher taxes don't help ANYONE, because the Gov't ALWAYS misuses what money it gets. If there are going to be more taxes, it should be at the State level.

So you trust a person who has offered you nothing besides "I'll fix it"?? Are you voting FOR Romney, or just AGAINST Obama?

I'm DEFINITELY voting AGAINST Obama, but I'm doing so because I believe the country is in better hands with Romney, rather than him. Personally, I would rather have had Ron Paul, but you don't get everything. I agree with him, more than any of the other potential Rep. party candidates. The only part I'm a bit "iffy" about with Ron Paul, is his foreign policy, although I do agree with some of what he thinks on it. I'm going with the best option I have for the future of my country. If it had been Ron Paul, I could probably say I was voting FOR him, more than 'against' Obama.

By the by, I'm proud to say I've come back a little bit ago, from doing my Civic Duty. Here's to hoping Romney wins..!

[Goose]

By the by, I'm proud to say I've come back a little bit ago, from doing my Civic Duty.

To everyone in America, whatever your politics are, go out and vote if you can.

[Seastallion]

I'm just wondering how you (or your ancestors) are any more a "legal" immigrant than say the child of a Native American and what you consider an "illegal immigrant". After all, that kid is 50% Native American, that's a sixth more than you.

Geez, so I guess you don't include my ancestors that were 50% Native American? Doesn't me being their descendent give me any legitimacy? I have Cherokee (mostly), Choctaw, and Blackfoot in my blood. I guess that doesn't count, because it is too far back? My European Ancestors have been in this country since before there was ANYTHING besides one small village called Jamestown. My ancestors arrived with Sir William Berkely, who was appointed the Colonial Govenor in 1642. My ancestors arrived in the frontier of Virginia, eventually moving into North Carolina around the time of the Revolutionary War, and then later to Georgia, by the time of the Civil War. My Great Grandfather then moved from Georgia to New Mexico with his uncle as a very young man, where eventually my Grandad was born. He then eventually moved to Ohio, where my Mother's side of the family had been living for over 150 years. I have Native American blood from both sides of my family. I'd say I have as much legitimacy as ANYONE in this country. I was born here, my ancestors were born here going back to over 350 years on one part, and for THOUSANDS of years on another. I AM a Native, through and through. I have more American Indian blood in my body than the vast majority of people in the U.S. So are you saying my credentials don't count? If I sound a bit offended, maybe it is because I am.

You want to demonize the early settlers, go ahead. There are arguments to be made about the morality of the whole things, but Boo Hoo, it happened. It's not like the Native Americans weren't going around killing each other just as much, just like humans all over the Earth have done. Is it right? Maybe not, but it is water under the bridge.

However, if your going to question MY legitimacy... You have NO RIGHT to do so. The credentials of my family tree are beyond reproach, as to the 'Right' to be here. I was born in the U.S., and my ancestors have been in North America going back many thousands of years, just as some of my ancestors have been here for hundreds of years. Its not like I'm the kid of someone who only just came to the U.S. My roots here are VERY deep. You'd best be careful when you go about questioning the legitimacy of someone to exist on their own homeland. It can be a touchy subject with anyone. I dare you to go just about anywhere in the world and question someone's right to be there. I don't doubt that you'd get them very angry, assuming they bothered to acknowledge you at all.

But apparently that doesn't count as their ancestors haven't barged in and taken over someone else's land 350 years ago, right? Out of sheer curiosity, at what time do today's "illegal immigrants" automatically become "legal immigrants" then? If they manage to stay under the radar and on American soil for a few more decades, like your Caucasian ancestors who just claimed the land right away the moment they set foot on it?

For the record, I have NO problem with immigrants. I DO expect them to assimilate though. They need not reject their past, but they should honor the American culture. The U.S. is the most diverse country on Earth, and I'm proud of that. We don't ask people to forget their past national or ethnic pride, they just need to also have pride in America too.

[Seastallion]

Technically, original settlers (natives) and colonizers don't count as immigrants. "Immigrant" in a social sense is "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence." Invasion/colonization doesn't count. Everyone after the natives and the colonists can be considered immigrants. It's harder to make the case for native Americans that lived on land previously controlled by Mexico, as it was Mexicans that stole that land first (Or Spaniards).

However, I really doubt that you have only English/Dutch/French/Spanish blood to be able to claim that your ancestery is limited to those who came here 300+ years ago. You might have some Irish/German/Everywhere-but-here blood in you. And that really does confuse the whole issue given that "illegal immigrant/alien" didn't exist before the 1900's therefore the idea of ancestors pre-mid 1900's being "legal" is moot. So unless you have some Irish, Chinese, Italian etc... ancestors that came when legality of immigrants became an issue, you may not even be a percentage illegal.

To my knowledge, I have Welsh (my namesake's origins), English, Scottish, Irish, Scandinavian, Cherokee, Choctaw, Blackfoot, and Creek. (The last four being N. American tribes) I'm unaware of others specifically, although I'm sure there are more. I probably have some German too from way back, pre-1900's. Heck, my Grandad (Dad's dad) was born in 1918 himself.

[Gatefan1976]

make sure when you vote folks that you actually get who you voted for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1oBb0ZosK0

[Womble]

For the record, I have NO problem with immigrants. I DO expect them to assimilate though. They need not reject their past, but they should honor the American culture.

What's American culture?

[Seastallion]

make sure when you vote folks that you actually get who you voted for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1oBb0ZosK0

I've heard about that issue a while back. However, the problem was the machines picking Obama when people tried to pick Romney. The officials said it was just a touch screen error. I dunno. Clearly, it has happened in the opposite direction too. Neither is a good thing. I don't like Obama, but I wouldn't deprive people of their valid votes. That is why I like the version used here. You have to fill in the circle with a pen. The machine can't just print whatever it wants.

[Seastallion]

What's American culture?

Anyone that lives here need not ask that question. If you don't live here, than I suppose it is irrelevant for you. Americans have just as much pride in our country as people of other nations do. We have a rich and unique history. True, it has not all been sunshine and roses, but whose has? Nobody has. Still, the U.S. is a great place to live. If it weren't we wouldn't have the immigration levels we do.

[DigiFluid]

Something a bit more neutral and fun: 10 Fun Facts for Election Day

Quoted below, in case the link changes:

1. If Obama wins reelection, we’ll have had three two-term presidents in a row. This event is so rare, you’ll have to go back 200 years to find the last consecutive winning streak (Jefferson, Madison, Monroe). In fact, Americans born after 1980 have seen only one president seek reelection and lose: George H.W. Bush.
2. This is also the first election since 1976 that no Bushes or Clintons were running for president or vice president. Bush Sr. made headlines from 1980 to 1992; Clinton held office until 2000; W. until 2008; and then Hillary campaigned for Obama’s seat.
3. We’ve never had a president whose name started with the extremely common letter S. We have, however, had one with an S first name. Give up? Stephen Grover Cleveland. Harry S Truman’s middle name was just “S,” and Ulysses S. Grant was actually named Hiram Ulysses Grant. Those are the only two with “S” middle names, and in both cases, it’s not quite legit.
4. John Tyler, our 10th president, born in 1790, fathered more children (15) than any president in history. He also has two living grandsons: Lyon Gardiner Tyler Jr., born in 1924, and Harrison Ruffin Tyler, born in 1928.
5. Only two men have appeared four times on a winning presidential ticket: FDR and Nixon.
6. We’ve only had one election in which someone lost both the popular and electoral vote, but still won. Who was it? No, not George W. Bush: John Quincy Adams, in 1824. JQA was an interesting guy. A famed abolitionist, the sixth president took a nude swim every morning in the Potomac river. He is also the first president to have a photograph taken. Other notable firsts: Benjamin Harrison, No. 23, was the first prez to attend a baseball game. In 1910, Taft began the presidential “first pitch” tradition. FDR was the first to fly, in 1943. Richard Nixon was first to visit all 50 states. And Martin Van Buren, born in 1782, was the first president who was a U.S. citizen.
7. Millard Fillmore got his unusual moniker from his mother’s maiden name, Millard.
8. Not many people know that we’ve had a Native American vice president. Charles Curtis, veep to Hoover, claimed Kaw, Osage and Pottawatomie ancestry.
9. William Henry “I died in 30 days” Harrison fell ill from pneumonia after making the longest inauguration speech on record — an hour and 45 minutes, in the middle of a snowstorm.
   He passed away exactly one month later. Medical records suggest that Boardwalk Empire's philandering, scandal-plagued Warren Harding died from a presumed heart attack after battling high blood pressure. But no one believed it: Rumor has it that he either took is own life or that his fed-up wife, Florence, poisoned him.
10. Here’s one that’ll knock your socks off: When George H.W. Bush was elected president, it was the first time since Van Buren that a sitting vice president had been elected without the president dying.

[Goose]

And Martin Van Buren, born in 1782, was the first president who was a U.S. citizen.

He was the first to be born a US citizen, is a better way of putting it. All the Presidents before him were US citizens, but born as British subjects.

Also, van Buren is the only President with a mother tongue other than English; it was Dutch.

[PeteJ]

Also, van Buren is the only President with a mother tongue other than English; it was Dutch.

What a commie!

[Womble]

Anyone that lives here need not ask that question.

But if you want people to honor a culture, you must be able to explain just what it is they're supposed to own. You are, after all, talking about immigrants.

[Rudy Pena]

But if you want people to honor a culture, you must be able to explain just what it is they're supposed to own. You are, after all, talking about immigrants.

And also, how can people honor a culture when said culture is not tolerant of others. Forcing immigrant to speak English, making and passing laws of forcing people to carry papers to make sure they are legal is stopped by cops, if the cops think they are illegal. Sure, those laws are for illegals, but making it just be the color of your skin...... why would I or anyone want to honor that culture that makes it hard to even respect it.


Please answer this also Seastallion.

[Goose]

Because TERRORISTS/SOCIALISTS/EVIL DEMOCRATS WHO WANT TO RUIN AMERICA!

Also, big government is evil!

[SoulReaver]

Also, big government is evil!

aye, except when it involves granting authorities sweeping powers & tightening the noose on citizens' individual rights to fight against foreign terrorists, in which case it's Patriotic



edit> ditto for capital punishment. just because it's a small government, doesn't mean it shouldn't have monopoly of life & death over its citizens
edit²> and for banning abortion. just because it's a small non-intrusive government, doesn't mean it shouldn't control what citizens do with themselves