The Political Discussion Thread

[jmoz]

well there's 2 types of private schools....those elite ones with the $70K/yr. tuition and they tend to have "Academy" in their name somewhere....and then there's parochial schools...a type of private school run by a church....people could donate more to these churches and then maybe these parochial schools could afford to teach some needy kids for either free or low cost and take some of the pressure off the government-run schools

Good luck trying to convince people to do that. Especially those that are not Christian and have no invested interest in doing so.

[Snookie16]

I am not talking about getting payed less than minimum wage. I am talking about them getting paid at such a rate, but cant afford there lifestyle of what I mentioned. So they complain and demand to get paid more to support there lifestyle.

Edit: I dont know of any rate people in America get paid while being here illegally.

I know many people (college students like myself) who would love a minimum wage job for say 20 hours a week- can't find them- even the local fast food shops are hiring illegals at 2 to 4 dollars an hour under minmum wage- and since the current administration has stopped enforcing the employment laws........ My dad talks fondly about working construction during the summers in high school and college- many of his friends did as well. Drive past most construction sites and there are illegals building the housesd/buildings. My mom was furious when she discovered our contractor was using illegals- luckily that was in 2005 and she reported it- the beusiness was shut down and the owner prosecuted
You shouldn't talk in generalities- most americans I associate with aren't as selfish as you try to portray us. You need to find a better class of friends maybe?

Too many people rely on said house. World infrastructure and whatnot.

Here you go Foley, you might like this.

I was talking to an econ major/philosophy minor. He said that the school system should become privatized. One of his principle reasons behind his idea is competition. He believed that with privatization of the school system, competition would drive things higher. Like, with the government currently in control, they set the standard of education. But with privatization of education, the standard would be driven higher and higher due to competition. I agree with him on some parts.

But I still believe there should be a balance of control of education because with a free range privatization, there would likely be a growing disparity between the highly educated and lower educated. And not just that, funding as well. Kinda like the argument that with a completely free market economy, there would be a rise of big businesses that goes against the initial aim of a free market. Too much privatization would result in a sort of big business (in this case, the more successful and better funded schools) driven education system whose real interest is to maintain their big business. I still think there should just be a right amount of balance to maximize benefits.

if you look at the american system you will already see massive inequities based on the tax base of the area. much of funding of a school system comes from local property taxes and some communities have incredible schools with every luxury you can imagine and others are lucky to have working doors and windows! some schools (like the one I graduated from) sends over 95% of their students to college/universities (hey it was a college town- everyone's parents had a degree in soemthing it seemed!) and other like the city of indianapolis will be lucky to graduate 40% of it's students and have maybe half of those performing at grade level.

well there's 2 types of private schools....those elite ones with the $70K/yr. tuition and they tend to have "Academy" in their name somewhere....and then there's parochial schools...a type of private school run by a church....people could donate more to these churches and then maybe these parochial schools could afford to teach some needy kids for either free or low cost and take some of the pressure off the government-run schools

there's a third type- a private non-religious school. Those are starting to crop up around the country and are being run as not-for-profits. The USA spends more on each publically educated child than any other country--- the problems- teacher's unions which make it nearly impossible to fire incompetent teachers, too muchj spending on fancy buildings, and bloated school administrations. The IPS (indianapolis public school) superintenedant (the dude in charge) earns in excess of 200K per year- not including benefits. Waaay too much, IMHO.

[Rudy Pena]

I know many people (college students like myself) who would love a minimum wage job for say 20 hours a week- can't find them- even the local fast food shops are hiring illegals at 2 to 4 dollars an hour under minmum wage- and since the current administration has stopped enforcing the employment laws........ My dad talks fondly about working construction during the summers in high school and college- many of his friends did as well. Drive past most construction sites and there are illegals building the housesd/buildings. My mom was furious when she discovered our contractor was using illegals- luckily that was in 2005 and she reported it- the beusiness was shut down and the owner prosecuted
You shouldn't talk in generalities- most americans I associate with aren't as selfish as you try to portray us. You need to find a better class of friends maybe?

I will get back to you on this, I was almost done typing when somehow the page reloaded itself and i lost everything I was saying.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

I don't think there is anything wrong with private schools but not all schools should be be private, I believe education is a right and should be available to everyone no matter their income.

I don't like the idea of church run schools as the might leave out important things because of religious reasons. They would have to teach Science and include evolution. Sex education and not just promote abstinence but other forms contraception as well.

[Womble]

Too many people rely on said house. World infrastructure and whatnot.

Here you go Foley, you might like this.

I was talking to an econ major/philosophy minor. He said that the school system should become privatized. One of his principle reasons behind his idea is competition. He believed that with privatization of the school system, competition would drive things higher. Like, with the government currently in control, they set the standard of education. But with privatization of education, the standard would be driven higher and higher due to competition.

Or lower and lower due to competition. It is not a given that a private school's economic interest is best served by providing quality education; many schools would go for quantity over quality and gain the edge by downgrading the standards required in order to graduate.

There's also the question of education "coverage" and the right of schools to turn students away. Just as an example, private schools could refuse to accept students who are wheelchair-bound because it requires the expense of making the school building, the toilets etc. accessible for them. Or they could drop a students mid-year because his father was fired from his job and can no longer pay the education costs. People could find themselves without affordable schools within reasonable distance from their home, etc.

Even more importantly, though, it's not all about economy. There's the question of social cohesion. I find that it's one of the bigger problems of modern Western societies- gradual loss of collective identity. Decades of relentless purging of nationalism and blind pursuit of ever-greater autonomy for ever-greater number of groups and individuals are causing nations to devolve before our eyes into something amorphous and unstable. But collective identity is extremely important, and it can only be sustained through an education system that is uniform enough to pass that identity on to the next generation.

People don't seem to remember it anymore because for half a century nationalism was painted as the root of all evil- but democracy is born out of nationalism and is sustained by nationalism. It isn't the geographic borders, but the cohesive identity, the sense of "We, the people", that makes citizens vote with a view to the public good, and it is also what makes them accept the outcome of majority vote as legitimate. Individualism has its place so long as it's a healthy kind of individualism, but the kind of individualistic chauvinism that fuels many libertarians' government-bashing views is every bit as anti-democratic as nationalistic chauvinism.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Or lower and lower due to competition. It is not a given that a private school's economic interest is best served by providing quality education; many schools would go for quantity over quality and gain the edge by downgrading the standards required in order to graduate.

There's also the question of education "coverage" and the right of schools to turn students away. Just as an example, private schools could refuse to accept students who are wheelchair-bound because it requires the expense of making the school building, the toilets etc. accessible for them. Or they could drop a students mid-year because his father was fired from his job and can no longer pay the education costs. People could find themselves without affordable schools within reasonable distance from their home, etc.

Even more importantly, though, it's not all about economy. There's the question of social cohesion. I find that it's one of the bigger problems of modern Western societies- gradual loss of collective identity. Decades of relentless purging of nationalism and blind pursuit of ever-greater autonomy for ever-greater number of groups and individuals are causing nations to devolve before our eyes into something amorphous and unstable. But collective identity is extremely important, and it can only be sustained through an education system that is uniform enough to pass that identity on to the next generation.

People don't seem to remember it anymore because for half a century nationalism was painted as the root of all evil- but democracy is born out of nationalism and is sustained by nationalism. It isn't the geographic borders, but the cohesive identity, the sense of "We, the people", that makes citizens vote with a view to the public good, and it is also what makes them accept the outcome of majority vote as legitimate. Individualism has its place so long as it's a healthy kind of individualism, but the kind of individualistic chauvinism that fuels many libertarians' government-bashing views is every bit as anti-democratic as nationalistic chauvinism.

Personally I think schools should required to make alterations to all buildings to make them wheelchair accessible, it's discrimination pure and simple.

To there's nothing wrong with being patriotic but I don't like nationalism it feels bit to 'jingoistic' and like trying imply a type of superiority IMO.

[lordofseas]

I don't think there is anything wrong with private schools but not all schools should be be private, I believe education is a right and should be available to everyone no matter their income.

I don't like the idea of church run schools as the might leave out important things because of religious reasons. They would have to teach Science and include evolution. Sex education and not just promote abstinence but other forms contraception as well.

Any school has to follow the curriculum put forward by the province/territory/state ministry of education.

[Rudy Pena]

Any school has to follow the curriculum put forward by the province/territory/state ministry of education.

Not if its a church school, they have it to where its the higher church chooses what not to teach.

[jelgate]

Any school has to follow the curriculum put forward by the province/territory/state ministry of education.

Only if its funded by the government.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Which is exactly how Americans have always felt about their country; no one's ever entirely happy with how things are. But that's part of being part of any group, and you need to learn to work together and move past it. Europe's stronger together, and they can't let this crisis destroy what they've spent centuries slowly trying to build.

true - secession in the US, while the threat of it is always a heads up for problems, would signal disaster for that state, and weakens the whole. When the Euro surpassed the US dollar, I think the notion of going back was put to bed

I don't think there is anything wrong with private schools but not all schools should be be private, I believe education is a right and should be available to everyone no matter their income.

I don't like the idea of church run schools as the might leave out important things because of religious reasons. They would have to teach Science and include evolution. Sex education and not just promote abstinence but other forms contraception as well.

That always worries me, all these little pockets of isolated people, believing fiercely in what little they've been taught and nothing else. The US is already lagging behind so many countries academically - I don't think this plan is likely to help with that.

[mad_gater]

I don't think there is anything wrong with private schools but not all schools should be be private, I believe education is a right and should be available to everyone no matter their income.

I don't like the idea of church run schools as the might leave out important things because of religious reasons. They would have to teach Science and include evolution. Sex education and not just promote abstinence but other forms contraception as well.

the only evolution that Catholic schools would have a problem teaching is macro evolution.....which is the bogus idea that a member of one species can turn into a member of another species.....like it or not apes and man are 2 distinct species one cannot become the other through any natural means.....micro evolution on the other hand which is the concept that each species has the potential to adapt and change to his surroundings while still retaining its essence as a member of that species.....does have some scientific merit

and you would have churches teach a method of birth control that only encourages kids to act like wild animals with their sexual organs? heck NO! we're HUMANS....not ANIMALS...we KNOW that the proper way to regulate our births is to just say NO! not until MARRIAGE!

[mad_gater]

I don't think there is anything wrong with private schools but not all schools should be be private, I believe education is a right and should be available to everyone no matter their income.

I don't like the idea of church run schools as the might leave out important things because of religious reasons. They would have to teach Science and include evolution. Sex education and not just promote abstinence but other forms contraception as well.

a concept you're STILL not getting...charity is an act of LOVE....so again it's not really charity if it's forced out of you because love cannot be forced....but neither do I support a cold-turkey changeover from public welfare to private charity......such a change over would have to be done gradually by necessity otherwise there would be chaos as non-profits would become overwhelmed in quick order....but shifting the needy to private charities GRADUALLY can be done.....so over time we could foster an environment where people are less and less reliant on government for their false charity contributions until perhaps we can do away with false charity form the government entirely

[Rudy Pena]

the only evolution that Catholic schools would have a problem teaching is macro evolution.....which is the bogus idea that a member of one species can turn into a member of another species.....like it or not apes and man are 2 distinct species one cannot become the other through any natural means.....micro evolution on the other hand which is the concept that each species has the potential to adapt and change to his surroundings while still retaining its essence as a member of that species.....does have some scientific merit

and you would have churches teach a method of birth control that only encourages kids to act like wild animals with their sexual organs? heck NO! we're HUMANS....not ANIMALS...we KNOW that the proper way to regulate our births is to just say NO! not until MARRIAGE!

Actually humans are mammals, which is a animal race.

And if people want to have sex before marriage, then so be it. Its there lives and there bodies.

[Womble]

the only evolution that Catholic schools would have a problem teaching is macro evolution.....which is the bogus idea that a member of one species can turn into a member of another species.....like it or not apes and man are 2 distinct species one cannot become the other through any natural means.....micro evolution on the other hand which is the concept that each species has the potential to adapt and change to his surroundings while still retaining its essence as a member of that species.....does have some scientific merit

And when it adapts far enough, it becomes a distinct species.

You cannot accept "micro" evolution and reject "macro". They are both governed by the exact same logic, and there is solid scientific evidence for both.

(Not to mention that some religious scholars beat science to the punch on the subject of evolution by a good few centuries. Believing in the Bible does not contradict believing in evolution unless you are seriously ignorant of both).

and you would have churches teach a method of birth control that only encourages kids to act like wild animals with their sexual organs? heck NO! we're HUMANS....not ANIMALS...we KNOW that the proper way to regulate our births is to just say NO! not until MARRIAGE!

Because that's been so very effective, historically speaking? Because teens can be relied upon to "just say no"? Because there's some kind of scientific support to the idea that "abstinence only" actually works?

[shipper hannah]

the only evolution that Catholic schools would have a problem teaching is macro evolution.....which is the bogus idea that a member of one species can turn into a member of another species.....like it or not apes and man are 2 distinct species one cannot become the other through any natural means.....micro evolution on the other hand which is the concept that each species has the potential to adapt and change to his surroundings while still retaining its essence as a member of that species.....does have some scientific merit

Species is an arbitrary term. There is no difference between micro and macro-evolution except time - they are terms invented by creationists. There is more than enough evidence to support evolution between species.

Humans are apes. Ape (hominoid) is not a species, it is a family.

and you would have churches teach a method of birth control that only encourages kids to act like wild animals with their sexual organs? heck NO! we're HUMANS....not ANIMALS...we KNOW that the proper way to regulate our births is to just say NO! not until MARRIAGE!

Teenagers are going to have sex whatever you tell them. At least they should be told how protect themselves from pregnancy, STIs.. etc. if they do have sex. It's common sense.

It's not as simple as waiting until marriage. A lot of people nowadays don't choose to get married and the vast majority don't wait until marriage to have sex. It's just not practical to teach that in this day and age - it's no longer relevant.