The Political Discussion Thread

[Col.Foley]

Ahh, well thats fair enough then, you just sounded a little like "X is different so it should have different rules to Y", which sorta struck me as odd coming from you dude.

I know its a tough position.

[Gatefan1976]

I know its a tough position.

I dunno if it's "tough", more like you gotta be very aware of exactly what criteria you are using to determine "different" at any given time.

[ZRFTS]

But the issue is at hand do people have the right to be treated the same as everyone else? I can't think of any potential reason to make that a right. Nothing in any constitution or moral precept demands that I treat you exactly the same as someone else. Sure is it a nice sounding bumper sticker? Your damn right. But no two people should be treated exactly the same either. And this goes for gays, straights, or whoever else.

Look, they treated Indians poorly in the early days of America, they treated blacks badly in the 50's, they snubbed their head at cultures that were foreign to them, they even thought their country was superior to every other country out there; hell they're is still some hatred when it came to woman. It's obvious the people in America don't think of anybody who isn't white or hasn't grown up in an environment that is a suburb, a high-rise in the city or a traditional farm that is obviously run by a southerner; this has gone on since the dawn of time and all everybody ever seems to do is find ways to justify the current structure of life that goes on.

The obvious fact is this; people are different, people who are different deserve to have rights, why shouldn't we give them their rights?

[AlexanderD]

Look, they treated Indians poorly in the early days of America, they treated blacks badly in the 50's, they snubbed their head at cultures that were foreign to them, they even thought their country was superior to every other country out there; hell they're is still some hatred when it came to woman. It's obvious the people in America don't think of anybody who isn't white or hasn't grown up in an environment that is a suburb, a high-rise in the city or a traditional farm that is obviously run by a southerner; this has gone on since the dawn of time and all everybody ever seems to do is find ways to justify the current structure of life that goes on.

The obvious fact is this; people are different, people who are different deserve to have rights, why shouldn't we give them their rights?

I would highly disagree with your claim that modern day America doesn't 'think' of anyone who isn't Caucasian, or who grew up in in certain environments. You've layer out broad historical examples to support this claim, yet ignored the existing examples that go against said claim.

[ZRFTS]

You've layer out broad historical examples to support this claim, yet ignored the existing examples that go against said claim.

Even though society has become more accepting of other people, there is still some subtle classism/racism against those races/people who are different. No matter how many educational PSA's we put out or how many people we educate on the subject, there will always be people who don't think highly of other races; and that number is dangerously high.

[AlexanderD]

Why then did you categorize all Americans into that group? That sentiment is very clear in your word usage of 'the people in America'. Are Caucasians the only group that exhibit insular thinking traits like those you mentioned above? Not hardly! Publice service announcements mean nothing, but the incredible amount of legislation to combat these problems do, and trust that those laws do have teeth.

[DigiFluid]

Presumably, because the conversation stems from American politics.

[Womble]

Look, they treated Indians poorly in the early days of America, they treated blacks badly in the 50's, they snubbed their head at cultures that were foreign to them, they even thought their country was superior to every other country out there;

Name me a country on this planet whose history the above description wouldn't fit had you replaced Indians with some other group.

(In fact, for Spain you wouldn't even need to replace...)

[LtColCarter]

Look, they treated Indians poorly in the early days of America, they treated blacks badly in the 50's, they snubbed their head at cultures that were foreign to them, they even thought their country was superior to every other country out there; hell they're is still some hatred when it came to woman. It's obvious the people in America don't think of anybody who isn't white or hasn't grown up in an environment that is a suburb, a high-rise in the city or a traditional farm that is obviously run by a southerner; this has gone on since the dawn of time and all everybody ever seems to do is find ways to justify the current structure of life that goes on.

The obvious fact is this; people are different, people who are different deserve to have rights, why shouldn't we give them their rights?

Wow...that's a sweeping generalization that this US citizen doesn't want to be a part of. While this country isn't by any means perfect...I've seen it grow. Does it still have a long way to go...yes...indeed it does. However, no matter the color of a person's skin...the person can still be racist. I've seen it. Just something to think about....

“The barometer of where one is on human rights question is no longer the black community, it’s the gay community. Because it is the community most easily mistreated.”

-Bayard Rustin 1986 (Civil Rights Movement Organizer and Social Activist)

I would highly disagree with your claim that modern day America doesn't 'think' of anyone who isn't Caucasian, or who grew up in in certain environments. You've layer out broad historical examples to support this claim, yet ignored the existing examples that go against said claim.

Name me a country on this planet whose history the above description wouldn't fit had you replaced Indians with some other group.

(In fact, for Spain you wouldn't even need to replace...)

[Ukko]

Name me a country on this planet whose history the above description wouldn't fit had you replaced Indians with some other group.

(In fact, for Spain you wouldn't even need to replace...)

Here.

[LtColCarter]

Here.

[DigiFluid]

ZftS does have a very valid argument though. Racism, while certainly not as overt as slavery or Jim Crow, is very much alive and well.

Head off into pretty much any rural area, you'll find it. Have an honest conversation with corporate board members, you'll find it. Get to know one of the all-too-common petty tyrant hiring managers, you'll find it.

It's not institutionalized anymore--and thank goodness for that. But it's still a very real blight on society, and burying one's head in the sand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[LtColCarter]

ZftS does have a very valid argument though. Racism, while certainly not as overt as slavery or Jim Crow, is very much alive and well.

Head off into pretty much any rural area, you'll find it. Have an honest conversation with corporate board members, you'll find it. Get to know one of the all-too-common petty tyrant hiring managers, you'll find it.

It's not institutionalized anymore--and thank goodness for that. But it's still a very real blight on society, and burying one's head in the sand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Oh, I agree...however...I disagree with Zombies Rise from the Sea's sweeping generalization.

[Ukko]

ZftS does have a very valid argument though. Racism, while certainly not as overt as slavery or Jim Crow, is very much alive and well.

Head off into pretty much any rural area, you'll find it. Have an honest conversation with corporate board members, you'll find it. Get to know one of the all-too-common petty tyrant hiring managers, you'll find it.

It's not institutionalized anymore--and thank goodness for that. But it's still a very real blight on society, and burying one's head in the sand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Thought you were talking about the guys from Fringe for a moment there.

[KEK]

Money is like? manure.

When you spread it around it helps things to grow.

When it's piled in one place it just stinks!

Great quote. Not sure who it's originally from.