The Political Discussion Thread

[Chaka-Z0]

The people who really need to be called on the carpet for this are the Republicans who failed to support this BEFORE the House flipped. This should have been over and done with last year.

You are correct, they should be called on the carpet and I will personally gift them hand-crafted Canadian bacon for their services, with my regards.

[Gatefan1976]

I never expected Mexico to pay for it. Sure, the argument can be made that they are paying via indirect methods, but that is accounting BS. (Accounting is on the same level as statistics as far as spreading BS goes).

It's like ignorance, with facts, but why quibble if you get what you want.

That doesn't mean the wall should not be built, and at this point, I wish he would just go ahead and build it without congressional authority using the executive authority and the military. The Democrats will never pull their heads out of their arses on this, simply because they oppose Trump. Many of them advocated barriers long before Trump did. They flipped because Trump wants it.

You mean like the ACA?
ROFLMFAO!!

The people who really need to be called on the carpet for this are the Republicans who failed to support this BEFORE the House flipped. This should have been over and done with last year.

Hmm, the house and the senate under control, but even they won't buy your dumb talking points and vote against you.
What does that say to a leader?

[SoulReaver]

Trump and Ocasio-Cortez

hopefully one of them, or someone, can crack off the crazy glue and expose the workings of pay to play bureaucracy, the lobbyist system and so many other things wrong with our representative democracy today

lol one of the two, at least wants to do so (and I'm not even a big fan of that one either)

So repressive towards the native ppl's the colonists have been over time that even the actual hebrews who were native to the Palestine of the British Occupation, were treated by them nearly as bad

?what are you talking about that makes no sense
why would they mistreat their own people that would defeat its entire raison d'etre

[Annoyed]

By your logic, the US should've stayed out of WW2 as well eh? Why would they need to intervene in Europe' squabbles? It's not going to give them anything back, there will be many American lives lost. It's not their fight, let the Russians and British fight it out. Isolationists and collaborators almost made that scenario true and nearly doomed us all back then.

If it wasn't for the cunning and courage (and lots of luck) of the World leaders in the 30s-40s we'd be under Nazi rule probably and not having this conversation.

One of the biggest strokes of luck was that our 3 Pacific Fleet Carriers, Enterprise, Saratoga and Lexington were not in Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7 1941.

If the Japanese attack on Pearl had gotten those carriers, the Pacific war, and the entire war would have had a very different outcome.

[Gatefan1976]

Forgive him, he's Australian, it's in his blood.

J.R.R. Tolkien — 'Do not meddle in the affairs of wizardsAustralians, for they are subtle and quick to anger.'

What's in my blood is to be unforgiving of stupidity.

By your logic, the US should've stayed out of WW2 as well eh? Why would they need to intervene in Europe' squabbles? It's not going to give them anything back, there will be many American lives lost. It's not their fight, let the Russians and British fight it out. Isolationists and collaborators almost made that scenario true and nearly doomed us all back then.

Did I mention stupidity?
If I did, it was not enough.

If it wasn't for the cunning and courage (and lots of luck) of the World leaders in the 30s-40s we'd be under Nazi rule probably and not having this conversation.

You forgot the glaring issue, the sheer, abject, rampant stupidity of German High Command.

Isolationism discourse is at the core of Trump's rhetoric, even if you don't like him you support him by advocating this position. A lot of work has to be done overseas, both military and humanitarian. Sometimes, humanitarian efforts are directly linked with advancing your interests, such as defending a rebel faction or persecuted group under a dictatorship in order to overthrow the standing govt.

They don't understand your point at all.

You want to wait until the world turns to sh*t in order to act, I'd rather not personally.

see climate change.

[Chaka-Z0]

What's in my blood is to be unforgiving of stupidity.

Did I mention stupidity?
If I did, it was not enough.

But... her emails!

You forgot the glaring issue, the sheer, abject, rampant stupidity of German High Command.

Absolutely, most of the blame can be put on Hitler himself. The Allied used his anger fits and his pride to their advantage.

For anyone that's interested, I'd recommend the book ''A man called Intrepid''. This is truly an interesting piece on the secret warfare & espionage of WW2, conducted by Canadian William Stevenson's ULTRA Network (If you've seen The Imitation game starring Benedict CucumberSnatch, basically this whole operation was initiated by Bill, with close collaboration of FDR and Churchill).

see climate change.

Just saw a headline today that the US emissions spiked in 2018 after a 3 years decline. A very saddening news indeed.

[Gatefan1976]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...lection-latest

[jelgate]

I just played my favorite drinking game. Every time Trump lied during the press conference I drank a shot. Im now passed out in GF's bathroom

[magi877]

Forgive him, he's Australian, it's in his blood.

J.R.R. Tolkien — 'Do not meddle in the affairs of wizardsAustralians, for they are subtle and quick to anger.'



By your logic, the US should've stayed out of WW2 as well eh? Why would they need to intervene in Europe' squabbles? It's not going to give them anything back, there will be many American lives lost. It's not their fight, let the Russians and British fight it out. Isolationists and collaborators almost made that scenario true and nearly doomed us all back then.

If it wasn't for the cunning and courage (and lots of luck) of the World leaders in the 30s-40s we'd be under Nazi rule probably and not having this conversation.

Isolationism discourse is at the core of Trump's rhetoric, even if you don't like him you support him by advocating this position. A lot of work has to be done overseas, both military and humanitarian. Sometimes, humanitarian efforts are directly linked with advancing your interests, such as defending a rebel faction or persecuted group under a dictatorship in order to overthrow the standing govt.

You want to wait until the world turns to sh*t in order to act, I'd rather not personally.

Trump is no isolationist, he just acted like one to get votes

The WW2 scenario is not a time period I am talking of.

It was immediately after WW2 when America went into the 'let's help rebuild the nations and economies of our allies and our enemies"

that led to constant meddling by the US and then of course we inherited' them messes of the British and French colonial empires and assumed the role of supporting all the dependencies those two failed empires created

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Do you really, really believe that if the US withdrew from everywhere then the "rest of you (the world)" would actually allow the world to turn to sh^t?

are you saying the US is the only nation capable of keeping the world from going to sh^t?

come on now, have more faith in yourselves then this!!

[Gatefan1976]

I just played my favorite drinking game. Every time Trump lied during the press conference I drank a shot. Im now passed out in GF's bathroom

I knew I should not have cleaned it yesterday.

[Gatefan1976]

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/05/...from-boycotts/

[Annoyed]

Trump is no isolationist, he just acted like one to get votes

The WW2 scenario is not a time period I am talking of.

It was immediately after WW2 when America went into the 'let's help rebuild the nations and economies of our allies and our enemies"

that led to constant meddling by the US and then of course we inherited' them messes of the British and French colonial empires and assumed the role of supporting all the dependencies those two failed empires created

-----------------------------------------
Do you really, really believe that if the US withdrew from everywhere then the "rest of you (the world)" would actually allow the world to turn to sh^t?

are you saying the US is the only nation capable of keeping the world from going to sh^t?

come on now, have more faith in yourselves then this!!

Nice try at revising history.

Much of Europe was physically destroyed at the end of the war. So was Japan. We had no obligation whatsoever to assist them with rebuilding. We did so as a kindness. If we hadn't, it would have taken decades longer for them to recover from the destruction of the war. And in point of fact, we were the only nation in a position to help them, as we had been spared the physical destruction of our industrial capability due to our being out of range of axis weapons.

I should also point out that helping someone or some nation out does not obligate the entity providing the help to take care of the entity receiving the help forever. If I help an old lady across the street, does that obligate me to tend to her needs for the rest of her life?

[Chaka-Z0]

Trump is no isolationist, he just acted like one to get votes

His economic policies are.

The WW2 scenario is not a time period I am talking of. It was immediately after WW2 when America went into the 'let's help rebuild the nations and economies of our allies and our enemies"[

That is where you scenario originates, and the commencement of the US superpower, therefore is relevant.

that led to constant meddling by the US and then of course we inherited' them messes of the British and French colonial empires and assumed the role of supporting all the dependencies those two failed empires created

Obviously? The Allies were victorious, they deserved spoils of war. Disarm your enemies and use the losers for economic gains by ''rebuilding it'' in a model that suits your need as a nation. Japan and Germany had to be stripped of their offensive army to ensure they would not rise again, like Germany did twice during the Great War.

-----------------------------------------

Do you really, really believe that if the US withdrew from everywhere then the "rest of you (the world)" would actually allow the world to turn to sh^t?

are you saying the US is the only nation capable of keeping the world from going to sh^t?

Yes, I do.

If the US withdrew, Russia and/or China would jump in and assimilate as much territory as possible. Do you even realize how HUGE the Chinese army is or how many missiles / nuclear heads the Russians have?

Territory brings taxes, brings natural resources, brings strategic positioning and incredible wealth. Who's going to stop them? Evidences shows that Russia does it EVEN if the US is there, as depicted a month ago or so when the Russians engaged and captured the Ukrainian crew. Difference nowadays is that Russia feels they are strong enough to proceed with their agenda, probably has something to do with Trump being a complete idiot and messing everything up military wise.

There is no other military forces strong enough to oppose those two. Russia and China already made a bunch of country their b!tch, the only thing that prevents them to complete their plan is the US influence and strategic bases all over the world.

come on now, have more faith in yourselves then this!!

That's wishful thinking I'm sorry.

[magi877]

Nice try at revising history.

Much of Europe was physically destroyed at the end of the war. So was Japan. We had no obligation whatsoever to assist them with rebuilding. We did so as a kindness. If we hadn't, it would have taken decades longer for them to recover from the destruction of the war. And in point of fact, we were the only nation in a position to help them, as we had been spared the physical destruction of our industrial capability due to our being out of range of axis weapons.

I should also point out that helping someone or some nation out does not obligate the entity providing the help to take care of the entity receiving the help forever. If I help an old lady across the street, does that obligate me to tend to her needs for the rest of her life?

yet, we should not have done it out of obligation or kindness

actually, from the marshall plan, most of the gifting was to allied nations with axis nations receiving far less

and the Soviets did rebuild eastern europe, albeit in their bland and pragmatic way

what other nation has ever rebuilt conquered an enemy land unless they did so to gain benefit from it?

We have gained nothing substantial from this 'help'

you can say trade deals, etc.that is temporary gain

you can argue this any way you like- I have been to many of these 'helped' nations while in uniform, and the mood towards americans in them is at best tepid and at worst openly hostile

and of course, what you say about the old lady IS what I am saying; never should have helped, but we did and we (our poli-economic engine that is) forces an issue that continuing to help is vital to our national interest

[Coco Pops]

Harry Truman made a national emergency out of steel production back in the 50s but got voted down because it wasn't an emergency. How the hell is a wall a national emergency?