The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

They are banning a song because it is an inconvenience for certain people that believe it's offensive. Where does it stop? Close all strip clubs because it's offensive for women?

Banning a flag? a job?, a song?

You took the SUV and stretched it so much it became a swatiska as I knew you would, hence bait. But okay you pulled me down the pit with you so let's go.

No, I stretched it into beliefs and culture, cause you brought up culture.

I don't give a flying unas that a crooked cross gives you luck, neither do I care what a religious idol means for a Muslim or Christian. It is your business, I respect that, you do whatever you please. There is one exception though.

If you have no desire to see the other sides POV, you are no better than the other side, and your protestations of "I respect that" is little more than you s******ing behind your hand. I si****** at people openly, try doing the same, it's quite fulfilling actually, and honest.

Your culture becomes my problem when it affects me without my consent.

If you don't care about my "crooked cross", why should I give a damn about your consent? you don't care, so why should I?
You are mixing issues, and that's just bad for everyone.

Pollution from huge vehicles that most people do not use for work, simply as a daily driver, is my problem.

Sure, it's a useless waste of resources, no argument.

Banning abortion because Christianity deems it an atrocity is wrong.

Agreed, again.

Regulating belief is what this is, and politicians / corps cave in because of public pressure.

Umm, you STARTED this tirade based on faith being inconvenient, so get rid of it.
You want to regulate belief just as much as any theist, or actual ANTI-theist (not atheist) wants to do it as well.

As for corps and politicians "bowing to public pressure"...……
ROFLMFAO!!!
The public has no power besides a vote, and far to many have willingly given up that power to corps and politicians.
In the meantime, politicians get money, and corporations get no oversight, and because there is a single wall of separation, we argue about "the wall" rather than the effects of said wall.
People are DUMB.

If you can't agree with this, I don't know what our talk about the meaning of metal music was about.

What??
Seriously, What the actual **** are you talking about?
Metal is counter-culture, no matter what form it takes, hell, even within it's own genre it has revolutions. Metal itself is a revolution of Rock and soul music for god's sake. "what happens if we take the message of soul and put them into the rock arena?" You got punk, or you got metal.
If you do not get that dude, you are right, we had no connection in discussing metal.

[Gatefan1976]

See? You are trying to decide for me what I should value when it comes to selection of a personal vehicle. In your view, a large truck class is ok if the capacity is needed for work. But there are other considerations of value too. I drive an SUV, and I do need the towing capacity of it.

But even if I didn't need to tow, I would still choose this class of vehicle for safety reasons. A large, body-on-frame 4WD vehicle is inherently safer than a small car, and that is of great value to me.

You don't get to make that choice for me because you don't think that's a valuable consideration.

Your consideration is not valueless, it's just entirely selfish. Ergo, when I steamroller you with a rig, it's your fault.

[Annoyed]

Your consideration is not valueless, it's just entirely selfish. Ergo, when I steamroller you with a rig, it's your fault.

You feel safer driving a semi? Feel free, I have no objections.

From your response to Chaka-Z0

Sure, it's a useless waste of resources, no argument.

Keeping my hide safer is not a waste of resources.

Yours? Maybe, but not mine.

[Chaka-Z0]

If you have no desire to see the other sides POV, you are no better than the other side, and your protestations of "I respect that" is little more than you s******ing behind your hand. I si****** at people openly, try doing the same, it's quite fulfilling actually, and honest.

Nope. I don't need to see your POV on the swatiska. Why? I can respect that it means something else, hell you're free to go around town waving your cross if you want. I also know it is an ancient sign that predates ww2 by centuries, if not more. But, if you get decked on the spot, I'd say you deserve it. Why ? Because this symbol might means something totally different to someone else. I do not need to learn what every single symbol means for everyone, all I need is to respect their beliefs, as long as it doesn't affect me or the society. I'm sure you don't walk around town with this on a flag, do you? Maybe you keep it a home? I'm good with that.

Respect is NOT empathy. Not by a long shot.

All I'm saying, is if you start pushing your belief into the public sphere, by banning songs and removing statues of controversial idols (Confederate) because it hurts your belief, this I will never agree with. Some countries banned Mein Kampf, I hate this ideology but I hate the ban even more. Read it if you want, I don't give a sh*t. If you start spewing passage in public, this I give a sh*t.

The point I was trying to make about metal, is that the whole point is to shock people, create indignation and make you think about it. How is banning a song because it talks about semi non-consensual relationship not in league with this? It is a *****ing song! Are you going to rape the next woman you see after hearing it?

Ban something because it is nefast, not because it triggers your principles.

Be yourself, by yourself, stay away from me.
-pantera

[Gatefan1976]

See these two bolded bits:

Nope. I don't need to see your POV on the swatiska. Why? I can respect that it means something else, hell you're free to go around town waving your cross if you want. I also know it is an ancient sign that predates ww2 by centuries, if not more. But, if you get decked on the spot, I'd say you deserve it. Why ? Because this symbol might means something totally different to someone else. I do not need to learn what every single symbol means for everyone, all I need is to respect their beliefs, as long as it doesn't affect me or the society. I'm sure you don't walk around town with this on a flag, do you? Maybe you keep it a home? I'm good with that.

They are totally at odds with eachother
And no, I don't wear it, or have a flag at home, it's been tainted, I even said as much in my initial comment. What I was getting at is that at some point, what we may personally view a symbol as is less important than what society as a whole views a symbols meaning to be. Let's face it, the whole notion of symbolism is to express meaning in imagery, and if the majority understanding of said symbol is X, that's basically what it means from here on out. It sucks, sure, but there you have it.

Respect is NOT empathy. Not by a long shot.

And toleration is not respect either.

All I'm saying, is if you start pushing your belief into the public sphere, by banning songs and removing statues of controversial idols (Confederate) because it hurts your belief, this I will never agree with.

We have done this throughout recorded history, and it's not going to change.

Some countries banned Mein Kampf, I hate this ideology but I hate the ban even more. Read it if you want, I don't give a sh*t. If you start spewing passage in public, this I give a sh*t.

The problem with that is, then the ideology lives in the shadows, and before you know it, it comes back.

The point I was trying to make about metal, is that the whole point is to shock people, create indignation and make you think about it. How is banning a song because it talks about semi non-consensual relationship not in league with this? It is a *****ing song! Are you going to rape the next woman you see after hearing it?

I don't agree with that assessment of metal. SOME bands do that, for sure, slayer being a good example of this with songs like Expendable Youth, but they also do songs like At Dawn They Sleep which is no more than a cool song about vampires.
Are you old enough to remember the BS about Fade to Black promoting Suicide?
Do you ever talk to non metalheads about the -perception- of the general public about metal?
Metalheads GET metal, much like rap fans GET rap, but those two communities get spanked by public perception.

Ban something because it is nefast, not because it triggers your principles.

Interesting word choice, because what one might consider Nefast is based on principle.

Be yourself, by yourself, stay away from me.
-pantera

Not a good line by Pantera, at least from a society perspective.

[Gen. Chris]

You know...If Trump had really wanted Hillary in prison, the most efficient way would have been just to hire her for his administration at this point

[Coco Pops]

You know...If Trump had really wanted Hillary in prison, the most efficient way would have been just to hire her for his administration at this point

That is truth

[Gatefan1976]

I think "individual 1" is screwed.

[Gen. Chris]

I think "individual 1" is screwed.

No he isn't. He said he's in the clear.

Everyone might as well pack their bags, cause that's how the justice system works

[Gatefan1976]

No he isn't. He said he's in the clear.

He doesn't even know he is individual 1, so sure

Everyone might as well pack their bags, cause that's how the justice system works

For a dictatorship, yup.
All hail dictator Hillary!!!
What do you mean she's not the president?

[Chaka-Z0]

Anybody care to speculate how Trump already has 87 pages of counter ready? How does one get ready before even knowing what's in the report?

[Gen. Chris]

Anybody care to speculate how Trump already has 87 pages of counter ready? How does one get ready before even knowing what's in the report?

I mean to be fair he has a general idea. It's been confirmed that he and Manafort communicated and Trump already did his interview (which is widely speculated to have been full of lies)

I imagine the "counter" report is based on whatever they do know.

The problem is unless Whittaker has been obstructing justice by informing, there is no way Trump nor Giuliani know everything. And Trump's actions certainly are not indicative of that of an innocent man

[Womble]

Something remarkably ugly happened in the UN General Assembly recently that illustrated to what degree the game is rigged.

The USA introduced a resolution to condemn the Hamas terrorist group for a long and consistent record of targeting Israeli civilians. Because condemning a gang of murderers without reservation is usually too much to ask at that particular venue, the draft resolution was softened and "balanced" in various ways including inserting completely unrelated bacon about "tangible steps towards intra-Palestinian reconciliation", "concrete steps to reunite the Gaza Strip and the West Bank under the Palestinian Authority" and "calling on all parties to fully respect international humanitarian law" - all in order to bring on board the EU block and various other players for whom death or threat to life of Israeli civilians is not in and of itself a bad thing.

The Hamas backers (specifically Kuwait) responded by triggering one of the UNGA game-rigging mechanisms - a resolution can be pre-classified before vote as an "important question", in which case a simple majority of votes no longer suffices and a two-thirds majority is required. In order to classify something as an "important question", a simple majority vote is held. After a vote of 75 in favor, 72 against, 26 abstained - by 3 votes, basically - condemnation of Hamas became an "important question".

The resolution itself gathered 87 votes in favor, 57 against, with 33 abstentions. As it didn't gain a two-third majority, it failed. The Hamas is now prancing around boasting of the vote as a kind of confirmation of its legitimacy.

Immediately after that, a fresh recycling of a standard cliche-ridden resolution to condemn the "Israeli occupation" for the umpteenth time passed with 156 votes in favor and 5 against.

[Annoyed]

The U.N. has been peddling "bacon" in many different arenas for a long time now.

[Coco Pops]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.f6d58a828d01

Seriously how stupid can one person be?

D Day was the Germans helping us?