The Political Discussion Thread

[jelgate]

As a person who grew up in farming country, that is a terrible idea with regular cow.

[Chaka-Z0]

How so? I thought cows got anxious when not milked often enough?

[Annoyed]

So you agree that businesses are literal cash cows and should be milked as often as possible?

Of course not. Businesses are not cash cows for the govt. They exist to make money for the owners of the business, not the govt.

[Gatefan1976]

Difference is that they are the owners of the business, and have the right to do so.

Shareholders are not owners, they sponge from the corporation and provide very little.

You start a business and you have the right to use your business as a cash cow, too.

To an extent, sure, but your workers have the right to get a decent days pay for a decent days work.

[Annoyed]

Shareholders are not owners, they sponge from the corporation and provide very little

They aren't?

[Chaka-Z0]

They aren't?

Yes they are, GF is wrong about that.

[Gatefan1976]

Yes they are, GF is wrong about that.

No, I am actually correct. the highest end shareholders -might- get a position on the board, and they get a voice in making decisions. Many peoples super (401k's) is leveraged in shares, many companies even offer shares as part of their pay packages, and I don't see them having any say in anything.

[Annoyed]

No, I am actually correct. the highest end shareholders -might- get a position on the board, and they get a voice in making decisions. Many peoples super (401k's) is leveraged in shares, many companies even offer shares as part of their pay packages, and I don't see them having any say in anything.

Big or little, each shareholder has a piece of ownership. Little usually won't get a voice in it, but they are still owners.

[Chaka-Z0]

No, I am actually correct. the highest end shareholders -might- get a position on the board, and they get a voice in making decisions. Many peoples super (401k's) is leveraged in shares, many companies even offer shares as part of their pay packages, and I don't see them having any say in anything.

Simply put, whoever has more than 51% of the share has complete control of the company. Say you created a business from scratch, got it incorporated, but you needed investments to open a new location so in return you gave 60% of your business to an investor for 200k, well this investor can now do whatever he pleases with your business, and there's nothing you can do. I really simplified this system because mega corporations on the public stock exchange is much more complicated than that, but the principle remains the same.

The influence of the members of the board is determined by the amount of shares a single shareholder holds. Board members are usually elected through general assemblies of the shareholders. All shareholders ARE owners of the business, to a certain extent, only the 51% is controlling it tho.

If my company is worth billions GF and I give you a couple shares, its literally nothing in terms of %. They want people to ''own' a small part of the business so they feel more implicated and frankly, its just a way to get more investments making people think they're doing their part when in fact the amount of shares they obtain is next to irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

So, when I say that business are literal cash cows, I am not joking. Most of the shareholders in the corporation world are there only for for the money. They are literally holding the balls of the company in a tight grip. If you (CEO) don't give them enough money in forms of dividend payments, they will find someone who will.

[Gatefan1976]

Big or little, each shareholder has a piece of ownership. Little usually won't get a voice in it, but they are still owners.

Yet you rely on small ownership to win your political battles because you cannot win any other way.
sorta socialist isn't it?

[Gatefan1976]

Simply put, whoever has more than 51% of the share has complete control of the company. Say you created a business from scratch, got it incorporated, but you needed investments to open a new location so in return you gave 60% of your business to an investor for 200k, well this investor can now do whatever he pleases with your business, and there's nothing you can do. I really simplified this system because mega corporations on the public stock exchange is much more complicated than that, but the principle remains the same.

Yes, but you ignored the people who have a stake, but no control, and there are far, far more of them.

The influence of the members of the board is determined by the amount of shares a single shareholder holds. Board members are usually elected through general assemblies of the shareholders. All shareholders ARE owners of the business, to a certain extent, only the 51% is controlling it tho.

Irrelevant to the point I was making. MOST people have shares, at least indirectly, but they exercice ZERO control.

If my company is worth billions GF and I give you a couple shares, its literally nothing in terms of %. They want people to ''own' a small part of the business so they feel more implicated and frankly, its just a way to get more investments making people think they're doing their part when in fact the amount of shares they obtain is next to irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

No, most people like a dividend cheque, they don't give a crap about the business as a whole unless it affects their dividends, retirement funds or whatever you happen to call them.
"Doing your part" is the corporations ultimate expression of "help me or I will drag you down when I fail.", when all the while the top executives are taking home your lifelong earnings PER YEAR, and screwing you to do it. It's the literal definition of punching down.

So, when I say that business are literal cash cows, I am not joking. Most of the shareholders in the corporation world are there only for for the money. They are literally holding the balls of the company in a tight grip. If you (CEO) don't give them enough money in forms of dividend payments, they will find someone who will.

NO, very FEW people are capable of doing that, it's not "most" it's nowhere near most, it's the FEW with the resources to buy controlling shares who can do that. At best a worker could get is maybe a 1 or 2% share after a lifetime of service and using the share option as part of their pay package.
I'm not arguing that the wealthy can do it, they can, what I am saying is the rest is made up of .005 contributers who think they are "having a say" have utterly no voice at all.

[Annoyed]

Yet you rely on small ownership to win your political battles because you cannot win any other way.
sorta socialist isn't it?

I don't get where you're going with this.

[Gatefan1976]

I don't get where you're going with this.

Of course you don't, because you do not understand how your own political system works, or more correctly, does not work.
You are willing to throw literally MILLIONS of votes away to create a non impartial system because you "think" it benefits you.

The farmers, the "salt of the earth" people got SCREWED by trump, as did the low grade production workers, and the low grade employee's of any corporation.
The ONLY reason some tired old hack like you got protected is BECAUSE you live in a blue state, not because of the idiot in charge. Democrat policies protect YOU, they make younger people pay to protect YOU, to continue the stuff like the new deal to protect the aging population.
You don't want that?
Go die somewhere where we don't have to listen to your 4 year old whining about how good you made the country by changing a few bits on a car, while having never served, or created more "fellow white boy americans"
In fact, what did you add to the country in your entire life?

[Chaka-Z0]

Yes, but you ignored the people who have a stake, but no control, and there are far, far more of them.

Irrelevant to the point I was making. MOST people have shares, at least indirectly, but they exercice ZERO control.

No, most people like a dividend cheque, they don't give a crap about the business as a whole unless it affects their dividends, retirement funds or whatever you happen to call them.
"Doing your part" is the corporations ultimate expression of "help me or I will drag you down when I fail.", when all the while the top executives are taking home your lifelong earnings PER YEAR, and screwing you to do it. It's the literal definition of punching down.

NO, very FEW people are capable of doing that, it's not "most" it's nowhere near most, it's the FEW with the resources to buy controlling shares who can do that. At best a worker could get is maybe a 1 or 2% share after a lifetime of service and using the share option as part of their pay package.
I'm not arguing that the wealthy can do it, they can, what I am saying is the rest is made up of .005 contributers who think they are "having a say" have utterly no voice at all.

I agree with all you said man, I was just responding to your statement that shareholders don't own the company. 1% = corps

[Chaka-Z0]

Of course you don't, because you do not understand how your own political system works, or more correctly, does not work.
You are willing to throw literally MILLIONS of votes away to create a non impartial system because you "think" it benefits you.

The farmers, the "salt of the earth" people got SCREWED by trump, as did the low grade production workers, and the low grade employee's of any corporation.
The ONLY reason some tired old hack like you got protected is BECAUSE you live in a blue state, not because of the idiot in charge. Democrat policies protect YOU, they make younger people pay to protect YOU, to continue the stuff like the new deal to protect the aging population.
You don't want that?
Go die somewhere where we don't have to listen to your 4 year old whining about how good you made the country by changing a few bits on a car, while having never served, or created more "fellow white boy americans"
In fact, what did you add to the country in your entire life?

You put your finger exactly on the most hypocrite political stance of the right. The folks supporting Trump keeps saying that the workers are getting screwed, yada yada. What they don't realize, is that Trump's policies (Fiscal) are for the sole benefit of the biggest corporations of the US, as Tood rightly pointed out.

Get your head out of your *ss people come on!