The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

The third reich didn't do so well, long term, did it? He never made Germany great again.

Yet you are making the same assumption that Germans did. Has trump made the US great?

[Annoyed]

Yet you are making the same assumption that Germans did. Has trump made the US great?

There have been definite improvements.
Unemployment is at the lowest rate in a very long time.
The wage rate for workers is finally starting to tick upward again after declining for decades.
Although the deal with N. Korea seems to be at a standstill, you will notice the idiot that runs the place isn't shooting his mouth off anymore either.
We have removed ourself from agreements that were harmful to the United States and renegotiated others to be more even handed.

No, We're not there yet, but we are starting to make progress. It took 50-60 years to trash this place, you won't turn it around overnight either.

As I've said, I don't think we will continue the direction we're going now for long. We are headed down into the socialist/communist sewer. But at least we might slow our descent. Although possible, I don't think you'll ever see us rise to the heights we were at in the 1960's.

[Annoyed]

Having said that, this is a -really- complicated subject to say the least.

Yeah, it is. Would be worthy of its own topic in here.

[Gatefan1976]

There have been definite improvements.
Unemployment is at the lowest rate in a very long time.

Is that trump, or a continuation of a trend?

The wage rate for workers is finally starting to tick upward again after declining for decades.

Where?

Although the deal with N. Korea seems to be at a standstill, you will notice the idiot that runs the place isn't shooting his mouth off anymore either.

Noko rarely shot it's mouth off. It made noise when it wanted to get sanctions lifted, or deflect world attention, something it has done for decades under presidents of both parties.

We have removed ourself from agreements that were harmful to the United States and renegotiated others to be more even handed.

Who have you renegotiated with?
You have cancelled deals, yes, but who have you made actual deals with?

No, We're not there yet, but we are starting to make progress. It took 50-60 years to trash this place, you won't turn it around overnight either.

What progress?

As I've said, I don't think we will continue the direction we're going now for long. We are headed down into the socialist/communist sewer. But at least we might slow our descent. Although possible, I don't think you'll ever see us rise to the heights we were at in the 1960's.

You mean when you were respected as global leaders and essentially given free reign to do whatever you wanted because of that?
What is it about the 60's that that you value so dearly?

[Chaka-Z0]

What happens to the USA if the rest of the world makes trade deals with other nations and say abandon the USA?

What would happen then?

Yeah, it is. Would be worthy of its own topic in here.

True that. Has someone ever created a "never going to happen" thread? Theres more chances of us finding God hiding behind Trump's mask than this happening.

You can't severe ties with a country that controls most of the economy and that is one of the biggest consumer market in the world. That would also mean abandoning relations with every allied country to the US due to sanctions.

[Gatefan1976]

True that. Has someone ever created a "never going to happen" thread? Theres more chances of us finding God hiding behind Trump's mask than this happening.

You can't severe ties with a country that controls most of the economy and that is one of the biggest consumer market in the world. That would also mean abandoning relations with every allied country to the US due to sanctions.

Actually, you could.
Step one would be removing the USD as the global trade standard of currency and switching it to the Eurodollar.
Abandoning relationships is not an issue as you cancel all existing deals with the USA, yet agree to maintain all existing relationships with other partner countries.
Excluding the USA would not actually be all that hard for the vast majority of all countries. Weather it is wise or not is another question.

[Chaka-Z0]

Is that trump, or a continuation of a trend?

Definitely a trend, I remember studying this exact case during Obama's years at University. You can give nudges and incentives but ultimately the economy is such a complex system that nobody truly controls it anymore.

American banks and brokers abused the system so much after WW1 that they crashed the stock market, bringing the whole world economy into a puddle and indirectly helping Hitler's rise to power. So maybe before, sure you could take credit but we've got smarter and realized it's best to let the market dictate the rules.

[Chaka-Z0]

Actually, you could.
Step one would be removing the USD as the global trade standard of currency and switching it to the Eurodollar.
Abandoning relationships is not an issue as you cancel all existing deals with the USA, yet agree to maintain all existing relationships with other partner countries.
Excluding the USA would not actually be all that hard for the vast majority of all countries. Weather it is wise or not is another question.

Sorry man but no, just no.

1- you can't just go "hey let's get rid of the USD" unless literally the whole world agrees to simultaneously. Asians, Russians and America would never agree to this. China's economy is in major part based on the premise that Occidental consumers buy tons of product and need cheap labor for their factories.

2- nope again. Every country that the US has strong ties to would be forced to cancel these deals also.

3- this is a personnal opinion of mine, but I predict that the EU will fall apart in the next decade or two.

4- and yea that's probably the most unwise, stupidest idea I've ever heard (no offense), there's absolutely nothing to gain from this. Not to mention severing all ties would constitute an act of war.

[Gatefan1976]

Definitely a trend, I remember studying this exact case during Obama's years at University. You can give nudges and incentives but ultimately the economy is such a complex system that nobody truly controls it anymore.

Exactly. Obama did not "fix" the economy of 2008, he did what he could to course correct, but in no way did HE personally fix it. Conversely, GW did not personally tank the economy, but he did change it's course to get it into a position to tank.

American banks and brokers abused the system so much after WW1 that they crashed the stock market, bringing the whole world economy into a puddle and indirectly helping Hitler's rise to power.

I would put more blame on the post WW1 treaty of Versallies that hamstrung the Germans beyond what was needed and simply created a cheap talking point in the long run.

So maybe before, sure you could take credit but we've got smarter and realized it's best to let the market dictate the rules.

Allowing the market to operate free handed is what your first previous point highlights as being wrong. The great depression was caused almost directly by the market allowed to be unrestrained by oversight, so serious oversight was implemented. It was then dismantled and once more, the banks and brokers went right back to cheating the people, and guess what? History repeated itself.
No freedom in a collective comes without rules.

[Annoyed]

You mean when you were respected as global leaders and essentially given free reign to do whatever you wanted because of that?
What is it about the 60's that that you value so dearly?

Everyone wants to be at the top of the heap, and by extension, wants their country to be at the top of the heap.
During the 1960's, we peaked.
We had been decisive in the conclusion of the 2nd world war 20 years prior, technological development was at the front of people's minds at the time, and we had a president that knew how to light a fire under our collective arses with a single speech.

JFK, with his moon speech, did just that.
He challenged the nation to put a man on the moon in ten years, and we did just that.

That was the greatest period in our country's history and we have fallen so far since.

[Gatefan1976]

Sorry man but no, just no.

1- you can't just go "hey let's get rid of the USD" unless literally the whole world agrees to simultaneously.

Correct.
I did not say it was easy, I am saying what it would take.

Asians, Russians and America would never agree to this.

Actually, I think both Asia and Russia would jump at the chance to replace the USD with their currency being the international standard. Swapping the standard to the CAD (so, I'm talking your country specifically here) would do economic marvels for Canada, it would suddenly become the international trading hub of the world, and businesses would flock to you as the place to grow and develop and create jobs and wealth, same if they switched it to the AUD for me.

China's economy is in major part based on the premise that Occidental consumers buy tons of product and need cheap labor for their factories.

Yes, it is to a degree, but if they had the power of being that standard, they could revitalise the modern push in China to be a worldwide tech AND industrial powerhouse while maintaining total socialist control over capitalism as they do now.

2- nope again. Every country that the US has strong ties to would be forced to cancel these deals also.

Why?
If the USA can abandon the Iran deal, the Paris accords, NAFTA, the TPP and so on unilaterally, the other signatories can just cut the USA out of the signing process.

3- this is a personnal opinion of mine, but I predict that the EU will fall apart in the next decade or two.

I doubt it.
The Western core of the EU stands strong, and while the Eastern former USSR states may crumble, they should already have had a glimpse into what that would look like via Brexit.

4- and yea that's probably the most unwise, stupidest idea I've ever heard (no offense), there's absolutely nothing to gain from this. Not to mention severing all ties would constitute an act of war.

How is it an act of war?
I don't disagree it would be dangerous, but exactly HOW is doing it an act of war? I mean, I find the Muslim ban a crappy idea, but I would not elevate it to "act of war".
Trade war, sure.
Act of war is a legally recognized reason to kill people.

[Gatefan1976]

Everyone wants to be at the top of the heap, and by extension, wants their country to be at the top of the heap.
During the 1960's, we peaked.
We had been decisive in the conclusion of the 2nd world war 20 years prior, technological development was at the front of people's minds at the time, and we had a president that knew how to light a fire under our collective arses with a single speech.

JFK, with his moon speech, did just that.
He challenged the nation to put a man on the moon in ten years, and we did just that.

That was the greatest period in our country's history and we have fallen so far since.

Thank god for the democrats?
Or, thank god for someone pushing you to be better than you were?

[Annoyed]

Thank god for the democrats?
Or, thank god for someone pushing you to be better than you were?

The Democrats of that era were a completely different critter than what Democrats are today.

Kennedy's speech for example. It challenged the country to achieve something, rather than telling it to demand more from government.

[jelgate]

Looks like someone is drinking the Trump Koolaid again

[Gatefan1976]

The Democrats of that era were a completely different critter than what Democrats are today.

Much like the Republicans of today are not the same, but you still vote for them.

Kennedy's speech for example. It challenged the country to achieve something, rather than telling it to demand more from government.

You mean it asked people to ADVANCE and BE BETTER?

That's progressive, not conservative. You want to actually ADVANCE the world built on progressive notions, then lets have the debate on advancing things. You want to kick it back to the 60's after 50 years of advancement, then you are no believer in the 60's, or the 70's, you just want it to sit in a stagnant state because without the counter culture of the 60's and 70's, you would have never been great at all.