The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

and don't forget not even trying to better the livelihood of its citizenry

There is a reason why immigration from Mexico has been declining since the turn of the century and is now at an all time low for even most of Annoyed's lifetime. The living standard has increased, education is becoming more prevalent, and there is a growing middle class. Medical access for citizens is expanding and there have been vast improvements in infrastructure throughout the country.

Mexico still has plenty of problems, and they aren't small. But half the population lives above the poverty line now.

MG, you are wrong about this but it's not entirely your fault. Sure, there are still many immigrants (legal and illegal) coming from Mexico. But the majority are not from Mexico but from other parts of the world. Asia, Central America, and Africa. The number coming from Mexico is still declining while those from Central America have been rising. The reason why you are misinformed is because Mexico has become a bit of a cliche that won't die when it comes to Immigration. It's an easy concept, a label. But labels aren't always accurate, I'm sure as a Catholic you'd understand that bit.

[Annoyed]

MG, you are wrong about this but it's not entirely your fault. Sure, there are still many immigrants (legal and illegal) coming from Mexico. But the majority are not from Mexico but from other parts of the world. Asia, Central America, and Africa. The number coming from Mexico is still declining while those from Central America have been rising. The reason why you are misinformed is because Mexico has become a bit of a cliche that won't die when it comes to Immigration. It's an easy concept, a label. But labels aren't always accurate, I'm sure as a Catholic you'd understand that bit.

Central America doesn't have a border with the US, only Mexico & Canada. Therefore, by necessity, immigrants coming from Central America are coming from Mexico. Mexico has the authority to control its borders. They don't have to allow them entry in order to pass through.

Oh, and btw, that effectively ends the "refugee" argument as well. As I understand it, under international law, refugees seeking to escape persecution are entitled to seek refugee status in the first country they land in after escaping their home country, not to keep going to the country they would prefer to live in.

[Chaka-Z0]

Oh, and btw, that effectively ends the "refugee" argument as well. As I understand it, under international law, refugees seeking to escape persecution are entitled to seek refugee status in the first country they land in after escaping their home country, not to keep going to the country they would prefer to live in.

So as a Russian state enemy, you would go to Ukraine just because the law says so? I'm sure you'd be safe from the reach of the Gvt there.

[aretood2]

Central America doesn't have a border with the US, only Mexico & Canada. Therefore, by necessity, immigrants coming from Central America are coming from Mexico. Mexico has the authority to control its borders. They don't have to allow them entry in order to pass through.

Thousands and thousands are being deported from Mexico, in fact in the past few years Mexico has deported twice as many people than the US. The government has stopped short of deploying the army to the southern border mostly because the army is a little busy but they did send in militarized police who are attached to the military. This is the reason why the whole child refugee crisis a few years back all of a sudden ended, because Mexico sent in semi-soldiers to the border to stop them. Part of the reason why Mexico has been deporting more people than the US is because the US is getting less people to deport! Talk about being ungrateful. Mexico is basically a wall in and off itself for the US and still no signs of gratitude.

As for those that make it through, well...if the US can't secure the border what makes you think Mexico would be able to do a better job? Quite frankly, if Trump wants a wall it would probably be a much better idea to build it on Mexico's southern border.

Oh, and btw, that effectively ends the "refugee" argument as well. As I understand it, under international law, refugees seeking to escape persecution are entitled to seek refugee status in the first country they land in after escaping their home country, not to keep going to the country they would prefer to live in.

You misunderstand the laws. Once a person goes to a port of entry and requests asylum, they must be hosted in the country and processed to determine whether or not they can get asylum. Until that decision is made, they are legally in the nation in which they are applying asylum for.

It is perfectly legal to go to any country, go to their port of entry (at which point you are on their soil) and ask for asylum. At that point they must take you in and then determine whether or not you can stay. And guess what? Trump's administration has gone as far as making CBPS physically prevent refugees from going to a port of entry by literally standing on the international line and lying about the port being full...which is illegal. This is why refugees have taken the drastic measure of illegally crossing the border to set foot on US soil and then ask for asylum.

There are even accusations of CBPS agents stepping over the international border into Mexico to prevent people from setting foot in the US.

[Gatefan1976]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...esistance.html

[Coco Pops]

Sooo I wonder who leaked from the WH for the Woodward book?

[Annoyed]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/o...esistance.html

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.

That is why many Trump appointees have vowed to do what we can to preserve our democratic institutions while thwarting Mr. Trump’s more misguided impulses until he is out of office.

Thing is, these folks don't get to decide what is "detrimental to the health of our republic". It's not their place to do so. They are clearly overstepping their bounds.

I hope Trump manages to identify them and fires the lot of them.

[Annoyed]

You misunderstand the laws. Once a person goes to a port of entry and requests asylum, they must be hosted in the country and processed to determine whether or not they can get asylum. Until that decision is made, they are legally in the nation in which they are applying asylum for.

But there is this tidbit:
https://cis.org/Cadman/Why-Shouldnt-...-Asylum-Mexico

The European Court of Justice (ECJ), supreme court for the European Union (EU), has ruled that would-be migrants must seek asylum in the first country they reach.

That seems to be rooted in UN Law as far as I can tell.

[SoulReaver]

Thing is, these folks don't get to decide what is "detrimental to the health of our republic". It's not their place to do so. They are clearly overstepping their bounds.

yeah man instead they should be "I waz chust followink orders!"
(defendants at the Nuremberg trials)

[Chaka-Z0]

That seems to be rooted in UN Law as far as I can tell.

Why do you even care? You keep saying that the UN is crap and that Trump scrapped its deals with Obama. What is it?

[Gatefan1976]

Why do you even care? You keep saying that the UN is crap and that Trump scrapped its deals with Obama. What is it?

Whichever happens to be convenient.
You have not realised this yet?

[jelgate]

I realized it. I'll take my bacon sandwich now

[Chaka-Z0]

Whichever happens to be convenient.
You have not realised this yet?

I am a helpless optimist. Can't help it.

[Chaka-Z0]

I realized it. I'll take my bacon sandwich now

Please stop this optical abuse. Every time I read bacon I feel the hunger stirring inside me.

[Gatefan1976]

Thing is, these folks don't get to decide what is "detrimental to the health of our republic". It's not their place to do so. They are clearly overstepping their bounds.

I hope Trump manages to identify them and fires the lot of them.

Actually, yes they do. The Executive branch takes an oath to the constitution of the Republic of the USA, NOT to the siting POTUS.
Quick question, What if it was Pence?