The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

And on the matter of trade...
Here's a nice opinion piece, which while admittedly is no doubt biased, as the author is in the administration, nevertheless lays out some interesting facts.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/08/o...tion%2Fopinion



If other nations and the EU want "free trade" with the US, perhaps they should look in the mirror.

Because the US doesn't subsidize businesses and impose tariffs? I'm all for free trade. I'd say go for it. End all trade barriers with the EU, Canada, and Mexico. Though a word of advise, this is not a case of "rip the bandage off". But as an end goal, I support it.

That said, Trump doesn't know what he is talking about. The US has been making $$$ all over the place. People often conflate the economy with the budget. The economy is not a budget. We don't "lose" money...that's not how it works at all. We have services and products that need to be sold. They are either sold in domestic or foreign markets. The key part that people like Trump forget is the service/corporate/and financial markets. They combined provide many times more jobs than the manufacturing market ever has in recent memory. They are also dependent on free trade. So this would actually be good news for advanced and emergent economies.

[Annoyed]

Because the US doesn't subsidize businesses and impose tariffs? I'm all for free trade. I'd say go for it. End all trade barriers with the EU, Canada, and Mexico. Though a word of advise, this is not a case of "rip the bandage off". But as an end goal, I support it.

That said, Trump doesn't know what he is talking about. The US has been making $$$ all over the place. People often conflate the economy with the budget. The economy is not a budget. We don't "lose" money...that's not how it works at all. We have services and products that need to be sold. They are either sold in domestic or foreign markets. The key part that people like Trump forget is the service/corporate/and financial markets. They combined provide many times more jobs than the manufacturing market ever has in recent memory. They are also dependent on free trade. So this would actually be good news for advanced and emergent economies.

But not so good for the "average joe" in the US, at least. He can't get a job as a wizard of wall street or in the world of BS that is corporate. And service jobs pay peanuts. Maybe I'm being rude here, but you're a public employee, protected by a govt. employee union, probably one of the teacher's unions, and they are among the most powerful. You may have forgotten that the average working stiff doesn't have it so good.

And our trade policy should be for our benefit, not the benefit of other economies, emergent or otherwise. We've been a patsy for decades, and I am glad to see someone doing something about it.

[aretood2]

But not so good for the "average joe" in the US, at least. He can't get a job as a wizard of wall street or in the world of BS that is corporate. And service jobs pay peanuts. Maybe I'm being rude here, but you're a public employee, protected by a govt. employee union, probably one of the teacher's unions, and they are among the most powerful. You may have forgotten that the average working stiff doesn't have it so good.

Aren't you a mechanic? Either Way, that is a service industry job and it pays well enough. Same thing with plumbers, electricians, exterminators, ranchers, construction workers, truckers, and so on. Retail and fast food are not the only thing in the service industry. It is everything that involves a human doing something for another human. Anything from nursing to drywalls to insulation. Those are the people who stand to benefit from free trade. And they also represent the vast majority of America's workforce.

The teacher's unions are insignificant next to the power of the police unions. If anyone is "secure" it would be them. But both teachers and police officers stand a lot to gain from free trade. It's your man who suggested it. Take it up with the white house.

By the way, people do grossly underestimate how much one can make in certain jobs. Farm/orchard workers in PA can make enough to pay the rent, feed the family, and buy a few nice things. Just enough where they don't have to face poverty. And yes, there are those who do make peanuts. But guess what? Free trade lowers prices, so what little they get paid, they can buy more if prices go down.

And our trade policy should be for our benefit, not the benefit of other economies, emergent or otherwise. We've been a patsy for decades, and I am glad to see someone doing something about it.

Patsy? Our economy has been growing by leaps and bounds when compared to others. Free trade benefits us, being able to export our products to any nation at its natural price would significantly increase demand. How many times do you have to be told about how economics works?

Under NAFTA American manufacturing increased without fail. For the millionth time, it is automation that has cost many jobs, not free trade.

[Coco Pops]

Why is your President frothing at the mouth to get Russia back into the EU?

After all the stuff they've pulled why is he supporting them?

[SoulReaver]

After all the stuff they've pulled for him why is he supporting them?

fixed (and there's your answer)

[Coco Pops]

fixed (and there's your answer)

But who actually believes that?

Not Red voters

[jelgate]

Why is your President frothing at the mouth to get Russia back into the EU?

After all the stuff they've pulled why is he supporting them?

Better than Hilary

[Annoyed]

Aren't you a mechanic? Either Way, that is a service industry job and it pays well enough. Same thing with plumbers, electricians, exterminators, ranchers, construction workers, truckers, and so on. Retail and fast food are not the only thing in the service industry. It is everything that involves a human doing something for another human. Anything from nursing to drywalls to insulation. Those are the people who stand to benefit from free trade. And they also represent the vast majority of America's workforce.

I spent the first half of my working life as a mechanic till the early 90's when injuries which turned out to be permanent forced me out of that field. I simply couldn't do the work in a reasonable time frame any longer. I just takes too much time to compensate for the crap that no longer works.

The teacher's unions are insignificant next to the power of the police unions. If anyone is "secure" it would be them. But both teachers and police officers stand a lot to gain from free trade. It's your man who suggested it. Take it up with the white house.

Maybe in PA. In NY, the education unions are the most powerful.

Under NAFTA American manufacturing increased without fail. For the millionth time, it is automation that has cost many jobs, not free trade.

Then why is so much of the manufacturing that is still required moved outside the US? If Canada and Mexico didn't stand to lose so much, why are they complaining so loudly? If they weren't riding the gravy train as much as they are, they wouldn't be objecting so strongly.

Take a look at: http://kogodbusiness.com/auto-index/

Even some of the US brands have less than 50% of their content made domestically.

[LtColCarter]

But who actually believes that?

Not Red voters

I know several traditionally republicant supporters who voted for Hillary just because they couldn't stand the thought of Mango Mussolini in office. So, you can't paint all republicant voters with the same brush because not all are as blind as some of our fellow Gateworld members.

[jelgate]

Don't look at me. I voted for the meteor.

[SoulReaver]

today it's official folks

today neocons officially look like fools

today Fox News did something special, unique

today Faux News did real news

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-kim-jo...ctators-968644

“This is history. We are living — regardless of what happens in that meeting between the two dictators — what we are seeing right now, this is history.”

[Gatefan1976]

oops...………..

[Womble]

The question had ZERO to do with Obama.

My question was about Obama, so did you just confirm the irrelevancy of yours?

[Gatefan1976]

My question was about Obama, so did you just confirm the irrelevancy of yours?

No, I answered your "question", which was more just pointing out flaws of the Obama administration, which I agreed that there were.
THEN I asked why Iran is the Enemy of the USA, a question you have not answered.

You want to shred Obama?
Have at it, I don't care. I don't need the "whataboutism" you employed in "asking a question", which it was not, it was an observation.

Why is Iran the enemy of the US?
Annoyed tried (so, some credit due), he just did not go back far enough. You have made no such attempt.

[Chaka-Z0]

Even some of the US brands have less than 50% of their content made domestically.

Globalization 101:
1. Get lower prices by manufacturing your products elsewhere with lower labor costs and borderline inhuman work conditions to save $

2. Put your focus in other areas of the economy where you are the strongest, in the US case it's mostly technology - financial - military oriented.

3. Enjoy low prices, affordable product

4. Elect Trump

5. Complain because American jobs are being stolen from you... oh the irony

6. Go back to paying ridiculously high prices for your ''domestic'' products

Protectionism / Isolationism is not an economic model that works anymore in the globalized world we live in. The tariffs are set for a reason, the globalized economy is a complicated machine and can only work if all players play by the rules. In a perfect world, no trade barriers and tariffs would be imposed, but we're a long way from that.

*duur huur dey are stealing our jobzzz* - Populist discourse appeals to many uniformed citizens, which unfortunately, are the majority in the polls.