The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

Cops are entitled to go home at the end of their shift, just as you and I are.

and they're entitled to living on taxes & other privileges just like you are

Personally, I applaud them for wanting to to do the job they do.

same cops will toss you in the slammer if you shoot an armed intruder

(they should applaud you cause it's way riskier to be a citizen in that country lol)

With the number of people who like to shoot at them, I'm surprised there are as many people willing to do the job in the first place.

instead it's one of the most popular & sought after jobs in that country I wonder why that is

with the number of people both criminals & cops who like to shoot at citizens I'm surprised this country's still as populated

So far this year, we are at a pace of 1 cop shot each week in the US.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/12/us/of...rnd/index.html

that's it??

So I have no problem if they are a little quick on the trigger. Legal or not, you cannot keep guns out of the hands of the populace, particularly the criminals. That isn't going to change. In such an environment, common sense dictates that a citizen take care to ensure that they never appear to be a threat to the police.

since being unarmed in your own house with no criminal record isn't enough this means the only way for a citizen to be non-threatening is to be dead
so there you go commit mass suicide & you'll be safe

[SoulReaver]

you know if Andrew Finch had been black there probably would've been violent demonstrations & maybe some would've even gone on a freedom strike & what not till the DA pressed charges against the killer - and this wouldn't have been a bad thing for the civil rights movement
apparently this community's the only one with a spine in this country

[Annoyed]

So far this year, we are at a pace of 1 cop shot each week in the US.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/12/us/of...rnd/index.html

that's it??

That was over the line, SR. These are people who choose to go into a career where death is not out of the picture in the course of their jobs, the majority of them simply want to serve their community.
And you say that one per week getting killed rates a "that's it??"

[SoulReaver]

That was over the line, SR. These are people who choose to go into a career where death is not out of the picture in the course of their jobs, the majority of them simply want to serve their community.
And you say that one per week getting killed rates a "that's it??"

well yeah your stats mean about 50 deaths a year - out of millions of them. you seriously think that's enough? (to qualify it as a risky job)
was that supposed to be an argument in your favour?

if anything it proves my point & dispels a myth - that job's one of the safest & your stats prove it. heck if I lived there & I wasn't a corporate billionaire then it's the first job I'd pick. the only real risk is boredom (if you're put to paperwork)
it's no coincidence so many want that job they get security in more ways than one: almost guaranteed to return home safe after work (in merica their unions are one of the few with real power, along with the chamber of commerce) and lifetime employment guaranteed even if they f-up resulting in a dead citizen (commoners can get fired for looking at their boss the wrong way)

so once again TY for proving my point now can you give the % of citizens murdered every year? (hint it's way bigger knowing that in NYC alone there's about 1 homicide a day)
and citizens don't get paid by tax money for risking their life

[Annoyed]

so once again TY for proving my point now can you give the % of citizens murdered every year? (hint it's way bigger knowing that in NYC alone there's about 1 homicide a day)
and citizens don't get paid by tax money for risking their life

You would have to compare citizens killed by police, not the total of all murders per year. Oh, and don't forget the population of the country is far larger than the number of police officers.

[SoulReaver]

You would have to compare citizens killed by police, not the total of all murders per year.

lol what sort of standard's that
you're setting up your own goalposts & they don't even make sense

normal comparison is # of [sample 1] killed by anyone vs # of [sample 2] killed by anyone

Oh, and don't forget the population of the country is far larger than the number of police officers.

that's why I said percentage

[aretood2]

One dead cop a week doesn't sound that much but then again, we don't exactly have the numbers. It's all anecdotal and I am not a fan of purely anecdotal arguments. But yes, the cop mortality rate is (percentage wise) very low from the few numbers I've seen. However I haven't really read extensively on the subject. But here is a running tally
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-...data/year.html

In 2017 129 officers were killed. But has anyone ever stopped to think that the numbers are so low because they are so careful and cautious? That if they weren't that cautious the numbers would be higher? The real question is whether or not their cautiousness is causing the deaths of more "innocents" that it outweighs the lives of officers saved. That's a hard thing to look at and it's why blanket statements don't really help.

My problem with policing in the US is departamental. Many departments don't screen recruits that are simply not fit for the job. They go and get people killed. They don't always screen overly aggressive behavior, they don't monitor the bad apples. A bad apple teacher won't kill students, but a bad apple cop will kill civilians. I just don't think those bad apples are being held accountable and that departments are outsourcing training which is making cops not that good in high stress situations.

But people are too caught up in the symptoms of these problems to really look at the cause.

[Coco Pops]

So hang on if the USA attacks Syria Russia gets angry.

But if we tell Russia they move all the nice toys out of the way so that nothing gets damaged.

The whole thing is fishy.

Oh and Russia blames the UK for the chemical attack.

Fishy

[Gatefan1976]

Cops are entitled to go home at the end of their shift, just as you and I are.

No, they are NOT.
Just like the military, they have known risks for doing a job, and they may not get home. Does the Secret Service that protects POTUS entitled to go home?
Nope, risk is in the job description.

Personally, I applaud them for wanting to to do the job they do.

Why?
If they get to go home every night, as a right, they are no better than anyone else.
I applaud them for having the guts to do a risky job that could get them killed -in the defence of others-, not in defence of themselves.

With the number of people who like to shoot at them, I'm surprised there are as many people willing to do the job in the first place. So I don't blame them when they are trigger happy when walking into a potentially hazardous situation. They don't know if it's a kill or be killed situation. So they have to be quick to pull the trigger if it looks like someone might be going to shoot at them.

And this sums up why people with similar mindsets to you should NEVER become cops.
Being a cop, or a soldier or a politician should never, NEVER be about you, it should be about wanting to serve or help people out.
Firefighters put their lives on the line every day against a threat that does not care about guns, and a gun would not help them, but they do it anyway.
PROTECT AND SERVE, that's the motto, but the unspoken part is protect and serve the PUBLIC, not yourself.

So far this year, we are at a pace of 1 cop shot each week in the US.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/12/us/of...rnd/index.html

So what?
Cops sign on, willingly to the chance they may be killed. People in malls, nightclubs, churches or schools never did any such thing.

So I have no problem if they are a little quick on the trigger.

So much for right to life, eh?

Legal or not, you cannot keep guns out of the hands of the populace, particularly the criminals. That isn't going to change. In such an environment, common sense dictates that a citizen take care to ensure that they never appear to be a threat to the police.

Perhaps you should consider changing the "environment"
If I go to my glove box, the cops don't think I am going for a gun, they think I am going for paperwork, so there is no need for them to pump rounds into me.

And while there are bad apples, in many cases, it's not racial.

Just last week, an 80 year old white guy had called police, threatening to kill his wife. Police show up at 2 in the morning and he raises an unloaded rifle towards them. Got 17 slugs for his trouble. And it was his fault. How were the cops to know the rifle wasn't loaded?

There is no mistaking a rifle for a cell phone, or opening a drawer, especially when you called the cops and stated your intent previously.

The bottom line is that if you appear to present a threat to the police, you can expect to be dead very shortly.

And that is proper.

If appearing to be a threat to the cops is worth a death sentence, what is your 2nd amendment for?
You like to claim it is about stopping a tyrannical government, but you just gave a pass on tyranny.

[SoulReaver]

I pointed out that contradiction to him once basically the neocons claim
"we have our 2nd Amendment rights!"
but at the same time
"we deserve to be shot at the first hint we're exercising our 2nd Amendment rights!"
lol

so which is it - 2nd Amendment or Patriotism™?

[Annoyed]

No, they are NOT.
Just like the military, they have known risks for doing a job, and they may not get home. Does the Secret Service that protects POTUS entitled to go home?
Nope, risk is in the job description.

But minimizing that risk is certainly understandable.

If they get to go home every night, as a right, they are no better than anyone else.
I applaud them for having the guts to do a risky job that could get them killed -in the defence of others-, not in defence of themselves.

Why do you value the lives of people who are willing to place themselves at risk to protect others, as by your own admission, many do so little? There is nothing wrong with such people defending themselves as well.

If appearing to be a threat to the cops is worth a death sentence, what is your 2nd amendment for?
You like to claim it is about stopping a tyrannical government, but you just gave a pass on tyranny.

There is a clear difference between a criminal and a citizen or group of citizens resisting an oppressive/overreaching govt.

[SoulReaver]

Why do you value the lives of people who are willing to place themselves at risk to protect others

cept they don't place themselves at risk they place others at risk to protect others themselves & the elites

unless you don't mind being on the same receiving end of this "service & protection" as Andrew Finch

There is a clear difference between a criminal and a citizen or group of citizens resisting an oppressive/overreaching govt.

legally there's none

[Gatefan1976]

But minimizing that risk is certainly understandable.

If risk minimization is "kill the other guy" then you are already lost. The cops are 9 times out of 10 in the superior tactical position, they have guns out, and can observe you at all times. Walking into a home invasion or similar scenario might ratchet up the stress, sure, and cops will make mistakes in that area as they lack knowledge sometimes, and I can forgive that, but reaching for your glovebox, when 2 cops are already aiming at you, I want them to see an actual threat first, not assume there is one.

Why do you value the lives of people who are willing to place themselves at risk to protect others, as by your own admission, many do so little? There is nothing wrong with such people defending themselves as well.

This isn't about defence or lack thereof, is about proportional response.
It's also, and mainly about the job they do. It is their JOB to walk into dangerous situations knowing the risks, and while they can, and should minimize the risks, they should not abuse that either.
You sound like they should be able to kill any perceived threat, real or not, and that is beyond their charge.

There is a clear difference between a criminal and a citizen or group of citizens resisting an oppressive/overreaching govt.

No, there is not, both are breaking the law.

[Coco Pops]

I don't understand Russia's endgame.

Why prop up someone like Assad?

[SoulReaver]

I don't understand Russia's endgame.

Why prop up someone like Assad?

better question what is Trump's game? (what's the real reason he attacked Syria?)