The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

As do I...I wonder if Annoyed is a flat-earther?

Nope, just a bog standard low information person who does not understand Correlation Vs Causation. Being a flat earther would put him into a specific category.

[Annoyed]

Because it's clear you dismiss any reason or facts that disagree with your views. I always mock ignorance

As do you, and others around here.

[Gatefan1976]

As do you, and others around here.

ROTFLMFAO!!!
I know you are, but what am I???

A third grader??

[jelgate]

Carter has compared him to a child before. Or was that Trump? I get confused sometimes

[mad_gater]

Well as I see it, the only thing increasing the tariffs on foreign imports will do is make the price of our domestic goods APPEAR to be cheaper by comparison. Foreign imports tend to be cheaper despite the cost of importing them I think mainly because we won't stoop to the level of using virtually unpaid slave labor (at least not anymore), cheap sub-standard materials, and currency manipulation. So I think that if any inroads are gonna be made into encouraging people to "buy American" then I think it should be done form the standpoint of "you get what you pay for." Convince the people that while the price of domestic goods might be higher, it is also of higher quality, both in terms of raw materials and in treatment of labor. I say there's no reason why we can't go back to domestically producing things like cars, computers, and the like while trading for the stuff that we simply cannot produce here. An example would be tropical fruits. We have domestic access to SOME tropical fruits like coconuts and pineapples and the like via Hawaii but some of the more exotic tropical fruits/veggies might have to be imported simply because we don't have the climate to grow them.

[Annoyed]

Let me make something clear to you.
Free trade agreements are not designed to help -workers-, get this stupid notion out of your head.
They are designed primarily to help free trade businesses, and secondarily, consumers.
The worker gets stiffed either way, but at least their Cost of Living goes down.

You say right there why working stiffs should oppose free trade. It is for the benefit of the corporate elite. As far as cost of living, first, if that is the case, why has the cost of living continued to rise?
And what good does it do the worker whose living wage job was sent to Mexico, China, or some place else if the cost of that TV goes down? He can't afford to buy it with no job or some burger flipping job.

Haven't you noticed the historical fact that since the advent of Nafta and the other trade deals, the middle class his been decimated in this country? This is inarguable fact. How many "jobless recoveries" have we had in the past 30 years? Why have wages been flat for about as long? Yes, technological advance has cost some jobs, but that can't be stopped. Stupid polices which outsource our jobs can and should be stopped.

As I said earlier, I understand the rest of the world not wanting the US to change its polices to benefit our worker over those of other nations. They've been doing well at the expense of US workers for a long time, and they don't want to see the end of that.

[Gatefan1976]

You say right there why working stiffs should oppose free trade.

No, I did not. I pointed out who benefits most from free trade. Your reaction to that is rather telling.
"If I am not first I must oppose it"
That's what children having hissy fits cause they don't get a toy do.

It is for the benefit of the corporate elite.

It benefits them the most, yes.

As far as cost of living, first, if that is the case, why has the cost of living continued to rise?

Inflation

And what good does it do the worker whose living wage job was sent to Mexico, China, or some place else if the cost of that TV goes down?

What good does it do him if there is no longer any market for his made in America product because you just cut of 90% of the market for his product so he loses his job anyway.
(and BTW, the US notion of a "living wage job" is a joke, kept in check by clowns who hate the notion of reasonable minimum wages)

He can't afford to buy it with no job or some burger flipping job.

You could as a burger flipper here.

Haven't you noticed the historical fact that since the advent of Nafta and the other trade deals, the middle class his been decimated in this country? This is inarguable fact. How many "jobless recoveries" have we had in the past 30 years? Why have wages been flat for about as long? Yes, technological advance has cost some jobs, but that can't be stopped. Stupid polices which outsource our jobs can and should be stopped.

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

As I said earlier, I understand the rest of the world not wanting the US to change its polices to benefit our worker over those of other nations. They've been doing well at the expense of US workers for a long time, and they don't want to see the end of that.

They won't benefit US workers, and they will damage US companies.

[Gatefan1976]

Well as I see it, the only thing increasing the tariffs on foreign imports will do is make the price of our domestic goods APPEAR to be cheaper by comparison. Foreign imports tend to be cheaper despite the cost of importing them I think mainly because we won't stoop to the level of using virtually unpaid slave labor (at least not anymore), cheap sub-standard materials, and currency manipulation. So I think that if any inroads are gonna be made into encouraging people to "buy American" then I think it should be done form the standpoint of "you get what you pay for." Convince the people that while the price of domestic goods might be higher, it is also of higher quality, both in terms of raw materials and in treatment of labor. I say there's no reason why we can't go back to domestically producing things like cars, computers, and the like while trading for the stuff that we simply cannot produce here. An example would be tropical fruits. We have domestic access to SOME tropical fruits like coconuts and pineapples and the like via Hawaii but some of the more exotic tropical fruits/veggies might have to be imported simply because we don't have the climate to grow them.

MG, WHY would people trade with you?

[Coco Pops]

So a united Korea if Trump pulls out the troops from South Korea....

What a glorious day to be best Korea

[Coco Pops]

What have you guys come to when you have supposed adults attacking teenagers for protesting and expressing their views?

Geez would hate to live in the USA.

[mad_gater]

MG, WHY would people trade with you?

Just sayin' what needs to happen to stay truly competitive. It basically amounts to building better-quality products than what you're importing. Sure they might be a little pricier than the imported versions but the goal is to make products of such superior quality that it makes the extra money spent worth it. As far as trading for what we simply don't have the means to produce here (such as growing produce that we don't have the climate to grow), I'm sure something could be worked out.

[Womble]

So a united Korea if Trump pulls out the troops from South Korea....

What a glorious day to be best Korea

Say what?

[Womble]

Well as I see it, the only thing increasing the tariffs on foreign imports will do is make the price of our domestic goods APPEAR to be cheaper by comparison. Foreign imports tend to be cheaper despite the cost of importing them I think mainly because we won't stoop to the level of using virtually unpaid slave labor (at least not anymore), cheap sub-standard materials, and currency manipulation. So I think that if any inroads are gonna be made into encouraging people to "buy American" then I think it should be done form the standpoint of "you get what you pay for." Convince the people that while the price of domestic goods might be higher, it is also of higher quality, both in terms of raw materials and in treatment of labor. I say there's no reason why we can't go back to domestically producing things like cars, computers, and the like while trading for the stuff that we simply cannot produce here.

You can. Labor costs.

It's damn hard to compete on quality these days. Take a look at Skoda cars and tell me in all honesty if they are inferior to a Ford. Look at equipment made by Huawei or Foxconn and ask yourself what conceivable quality edge their American competitors could offer.

[mad_gater]

You can. Labor costs.

It's damn hard to compete on quality these days. Take a look at Skoda cars and tell me in all honesty if they are inferior to a Ford. Look at equipment made by Huawei or Foxconn and ask yourself what conceivable quality edge their American competitors could offer.

It's also hard to compete with other countries on an industrial level when the morons that run your country shut down all domestic steel production and won't let you drill offshore for oil, forcing you to rely on a conglomeration of oil producing nations that would rather see us suffer for our oil supply. Before the morons in charge started mucking around with things they had no business mucking around in, we WERE producing quality goods. "American-made" used to be a very high bar to set. Then it came crashing down when we let moronic bureaucrats stick their overly large olfactory sensors where they didn't belong.

[Annoyed]

No, I did not. I pointed out who benefits most from free trade. Your reaction to that is rather telling.
"If I am not first I must oppose it"
That's what children having hissy fits cause they don't get a toy do.

Why on earth would anyone negotiate a deal which benefits the other party at their own expense? Would you? Would you go pay 20K for a car and then turn around and sell it to your neighbor for 15K? The only way that makes sense is if he true motive is providing a handout to the other party.