The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatecat]

Translation: Christianity = Bad. Other religions= OK. Judaism is just collateral damage. Concerning the bolded part, that's just down right false.

Don't put words in my mouth.
Now you're snobbish and elitist. Copying from other mythologies, religions, traditions and rites is not a bad thing. It's just how people connected their old and new beliefs and authorities made a new religion accessible to their people. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas Eve, but in Summer, the date was only moved so it fell on the same date as Yule. Mongolians and Tuvinians are Tibetan Buddhist, but kept a lot of their old shamanistic rites and mythologies.
Mohammed copied from OT and NT. In Japan Shintoism and Buddhism practically melted together....

[Annoyed]

Yes...and cause irreparable psychological damage. Just like you can't pray the straight away...you can't pray the gay away.

Ummm...so...when are we going back to talking politics and getting off of the religion train?

Really, let's get back to discussing Hillary's crimes and Obama's sorry excuse for a presidency.

[jelgate]

Trump can do both. He is a criminal and is sorry excuse for a president

[SGalisa]

Really, let's get back to discussing Hillary's crimes and Obama's sorry excuse for a presidency.

But... but I haven't had time to get back in here and respond to the running commentaries / or to *defend* myself yet...

Anywho....

General observation from various comments thus far--
Can you people who disagree ever be *nice* with the opposing side? Stern and firm is one method, but for everyone here who claims for the opposing side to keep an open mind and make decisions for yourself ~ that seems to fly out the window when something is stated that you *passionately* disagree with.

A short while ago, I was getting the impression that several personas here were at least attempting to recruit me into giving up my belief in "God"... Well, in short...(spoilers for space and sidetracking issue)

Spoiler:

"...it ain't gonna happen." I've lived more than 50 years with 35+ of those years in a constant "Faith it or Fake and Break it" mode. What broke the fakeness was something I endured in the early 1990's... won't explain it, but it took me on a journey that would have put me into a what I perceived as a "hell bubble" for all of eternity ~ if that path was true.

After the year 2000-ish, I went thru another phase where it was "just me and Jesus/God". I won't explain that, because FH has already told me to look at people for help... which is fine if those people are there and willing to help. In this situation, "those people" were NOT there for certain reasons I won't detail... After a long year+ of existing on the impossible, what I learned from that experience helped me to help my husband go thru his *impossible* journey, except he had me helping him at his side. For me and my proverbial *wilderness down* time, I was alone. I wouldn't wish that on anyone -- but sometimes it's very tempting on this side of the keyboard to do just that.

A simple analogy to the above would be spinal-back spasms. Trust me, they are extremely painful... not something anyone would ever want to endure. Those who have experienced the worst of such a scenario, have reinforced my own assessment about how BAD - *BAD* can get... might be good torture treatment for enemy prisoners... --just saying-- Because in reality, this is something NO one should ever have to experience, especially if -deep down- they have some inklings of having a good heart towards their fellow humans. And THAT is the honest truth.

Like I said. Christianity = Bad. Other religions = OK. Judaism is just collateral damage. That's really what it boils down to...

Thank you aretood2. I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only persona here who has noticed this, because this is the general attitude that seems to be gaining traction world-wide.

Where did Moses get the idea to use a snake?
I mean, really? the serpent is the proverbial temptation devil in the OT, why the hell would he use a snake?

That is a very Good question.
I never understood that Biblical Numbers 21:4-9 scene, until while visiting a medical office and waiting in the reception area for my appointment, I noticed the "snake(s) on the pole" symbol on the wall and it peeked my curiosity. I went back and re-read the (Bible) chapter and verses, where the story states that the Hebrews were complaining about "wandering around in the desert" and their complaints were basically against God. So, God "sent" venomous snakes into their camp and let some of them get bit. Plain and simple story.

Whether the people demanded for a first aid or medic area to be set up is anyone's guess. If the snake symbol was already well known for being used in the medical world, perhaps this is why Moses made it ~ as it would be highly recognizable. It did seem fitting that there were venomous snakes in the region, so one might think it was related to that -- but *why* put a snake symbol "on a pole" when a simple biting snake image could have been used, if that was the only reason. Thus, it would make better sense to view the traditional snake symbol as being used as a general medical site/tent-office, per say, than just someone's creative *art* license.

Thanks for probing into this further.

Wow...I think someone drank the kool-aid with a pound of sugar in it. Granted, there are things in the Bible that could be construed as medical advice...but this...this is by far not medical advice.

It falls into the category of the *medical field*. First Aiders and EMT folks should be able to understand at least that much of what has been shared. Apologies that I wrote the wrong terminology or phrase... tho, I should not have to apologize for that in a simple discussion.
rollseyees

I'm only guessing that it may be difficult to understand what I am about to say, but some people - such as myself - think with the simplicity mind similar to that of a child. I told the Moses and wilderness desert story as I came upon discovering it. If that is too much to comprehend - in *simple* terms or how someone else's method of thinking might *actually* work, then I dread to think of how teachers, professors and parents, who have "higher" scholastic teaching abilities are connecting with their students/children and just can't relate to what makes their kids say the *craziest* things... Sorry, but that's how my brain thinks... I didn't create it that way, and no higher power of learning has changed it, either.

Let the kids speak about how they came to their *strange* conclusions. It might surprise the one teaching that perhaps some info got "lost in the translation" thereof. Before I stop, I just want to share what a friend sent me today... it's a classic example of what I am trying to explain in simple terms (as to perhaps how I came to the conclusion I did from reading about Moses, etc.)...

A school class was taught about the chemical composition of water. Apparently, this was verbally conveyed. So, the teacher asked one of the (young) students to write the chemical name on the blackboard the next day.
So, the student wrote "H I J K L M N O".
The bewildered teacher paused and asked, "What are you talking about?"
Student replied, "Yesterday, you said it's H to O"
duh... s/he's right! Misunderstanding came from the lack of a proper explanation of specified item!

And this is what makes our world go around... and becomes a more interesting, *learning* experience when communicating with others who think on a whole different level...

[aretood2]

Don't put words in my mouth.
Now you're snobbish and elitist. Copying from other mythologies, religions, traditions and rites is not a bad thing. It's just how people connected their old and new beliefs and authorities made a new religion accessible to their people. Jesus wasn't born on Christmas Eve, but in Summer, the date was only moved so it fell on the same date as Yule. Mongolians and Tuvinians are Tibetan Buddhist, but kept a lot of their old shamanistic rites and mythologies.
Mohammed copied from OT and NT. In Japan Shintoism and Buddhism practically melted together....

Who says Jesus was born in December? The thing is that you were talking about the bible. My comments where thus specifically about the bible. It's not my fault that you leapt from one thing to another without any real connection between the two. To say that the NT was written by copying things is something completely different than what you are saying now. Same thing with the OT.

[Annoyed]

Who says Jesus was born in December? The thing is that you were talking about the bible. My comments where thus specifically about the bible. It's not my fault that you leapt from one thing to another without any real connection between the two. To say that the NT was written by copying things is something completely different than what you are saying now. Same thing with the OT.

I forget where I read this, but it credible source. Basically, Jesus was born at some other time of the year and the celebration was moved to the end of the year.

[Gatefan1976]

"We" as in a select few, that hardly qualifies someone as a "dumbass". It'd be like a 10 year old from Kyrgyzstan being called a "dumbass" because he doesn't know the names of the main characters in Lord of the Rings...why would he know and what would that have anything to do with someone's intelligence? It was a blatant personal insult independent of the content being discussed. It was boorish, and FH was being boorish. It's as simple as that.

SGalisa is neither a 10 year old, or from Kyrgyzstan.
But nice try.
As for the "boorish" aspect, sure, you could call it that, but again that is the failure of text.

Funny enough, that's the wrong rod. I guess Roddenberry is a "Dumbass" too?

Under context, yes he is.

That's elitist and extremely snobbish. But still boorish. I don't go around calling people "Dumbass" because they think Columbus was denied funding initially because everyone thought the world was flat. And that is an even more well known fact that isn't nearly as trivial to begin with.

No, it's a well known fact to -you-. Most people would not know that. Most people know nothing more about Columbus than a mnemonic rhyme. BUT, if someone wanted to wax lyrical about Columbus and did not know that, well, you might not say dumbass, but I am sure you would be thinking -something- along those lines, such as ignorant perhaps?
Guess what? FH used a different word than ignorant for ignorant.

Translation: Christianity = Bad. Other religions= OK. Judaism is just collateral damage. Concerning the bolded part, that's just down right false.

Translation:

Perhaps, like Cruz here you (generic) have a history of persecuting others?
In fact, I don't even think that's the really bad thing, my religion did it as well.
No, the really bad thing is pretending that it never happened, or that it could not happen again.

Concerning the bolded, no, it's not false, every religion has done it. What is false is the assumption that by doing so, it invalidates the religion. If someone says they moved Jesus' birthday to line in with pagan rituals, that's just fact, but it no way says that Jesus was not born.

I'll refrain from throwing personal insults at your for the question.

Go nuts, I'm not made of tissue paper.

Firstly, I have never heard of snakes being the "proverbial temptation devil" as a creature in and of itself in Church for from my parents. The first time I encountered that idea was on a TV show, a fictional show. Then the internet (mainly from internet atheists). Just look up "Snake Handling". Many Christians see snakes as just another animal.

Genesis would disagree with you. It was not a rock, or a lobster, or a goat that spoke to Eve, it was a serpent, the craftiest of all God's creations that tempted and convinced Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and cause the fall from Eden.
As for snake handling, and what modern Christians do, are you -really- going to adopt a position where the past has no bearing on modern Christianity, but the present somehow had an impact back then?

As for Moses, well there is an answer to that. There are two words (just like in English) in Hebrew that are used in the Bible. Tanin and Nacash. Nachash is the word used in Genesis chapter 2 regarding the forbidden fruit. Tanin was used in Chapter 1 to describe what the English bible translates as beasts. Moses first did the trick with Hebrews as a sign that he was in fact sent by God. The word used there was "nachash". When he did the trick with the Egyptians, the word used was "Tanin". The reason most widely accepted for that is that for Hebrews, they would have been familiar with the story about Adam and Eve. The sign would then have an added symbolic measure of showing that Moses has the power to control the adversary. For the Egyptians, such symbolism would be lost on them.

Wow, I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here. Nachash is the word for snake, (or shining one, hello Lucifer) Tannin is more associated with sea monsters. Two words for two different types of creatures that live in different environments.
How surprising.

As for the Adversary, I thought you said sometimes a talking snake is just a talking snake, so why is it now the adversary?

Snakes can be seen as a sign of authority in Ancient Egypt. Moses was able to turn a staff into a snake. Sure, the Egyptians did the same thing, but the added symbology there was that Moses' staff ate the Egyptians' Staffs. Think it through.

Yes, I get the symbology quite well, but I am still at a loss to explain why Moses would put up a snake staff to represent HEALING when he just proved that his lord was better than TWO other snakes by eating them.
That's the crux, why use a snake?

As for the snake in Genesis...sometimes a talking snake is just a talking snake.

There it is.

So who did the Native Americans copy their flood story from? Not to mention they too have stories about a Sun that stops moving, much like the Greeks and the Hebrews. Parallel development is a real thing. And just having an earlier recording doesn't mean that it came from that source. Hebrew and Sumerian accounts can both be different versions of a third account/event. That would account for Native Americans a lot more than the "They stole it" drivel.

I am still trying to work out the relevance of this part. I said nothing about parallel evolution separated by thousands of miles, I spoke only about it when they are neighbours. Chances are, if cultures separated by thousands of miles have similar events, that event happened, it's independent sourcing.
Do you think that the "native" cultures of the America's ascribed the flood to the J-C god at the time?

Like I said. Christianity = Bad. Other religions = OK. Judaism is just collateral damage. That's really what it boils down to. You'll defend Muslims from bigots, but are one yourself,
just not to Muslims.

I have never heard FH, or anyone else here for that matter not be concerned with Muslim extremists, what I HAVE heard however is lots of Christians denying that they could be just as extreme. The vast majority of Christians are not, and never will be extremists, they just have their own faith and are happy with it, and no one really minds.
The vast majority of Muslims are the same.
The vast majority of ANY religion are the same.
Don't mistake an attack on A religion as an attack on YOUR faith.

[Wolf O'Donnell]

Isn't that supposed to be "Donnie Demento", a take off on "Doctor Demento" ?

And maybe because he feels he is defending himself? Friday's news indicates that while the Russians did try to manipulate public opinion, it also clearly stated that no US citizen was knowingly involved. But the media and the left have been painting Trump and the administration with the same brush as the Russians.

So why not enforce the sanctions? Is that also him defending himself?

[Gatefan1976]

Who says Jesus was born in December? The thing is that you were talking about the bible. My comments where thus specifically about the bible. It's not my fault that you leapt from one thing to another without any real connection between the two. To say that the NT was written by copying things is something completely different than what you are saying now. Same thing with the OT.

Ahh, you opened that door yourself Tood old son.
The bible states that at the time of Jesus' birth the shepherds were out in the fields, and there is only one season where that would certainly not be the case, winter.
So yes, we don't know when he would have been born, but we certainly know when he was not, smack bang in the middle of winter.
There is your connection. WHY did they move the date to a time where -even then- it is a contradiction?
Unless you are suggesting CHRIST-mas is a celebration of something else?
Well, obvious answer is it got the non Christians on-board and was not a shock to their previous religious life.

[Gatefan1976]

So why not enforce the sanctions? Is that also him defending himself?

Honestly?
The more I read, learn and process, the more I become convinced that trump -himself- was utterly incapable of collusion, simply because he would not know the difference between business quid pro quo and how a government is supposed to function. That's not a defence of trump, anymore than not charging a 5 year old who shoots their parent under murder laws is a defence, it's realising the legal standing and burden of proof you can achieve on a case.
He does not slap sanctions on Russia because doing it would "get him in trouble", and not doing it gets ignored by the GOP. So........ yeah, in a way it -is- defending himself, at least, from a 5 year old point of view.
is it doing the Job he is supposed to hold?
Hell no.

[SGalisa]

Oy! This might end up being a 2-parter... or more...?
(Haven't checked it yet either for typos, so expect an avalanche...!)

Side issue first...

I have never heard FH, or anyone else here for that matter not be concerned with Muslim extremists, what I HAVE heard however is lots of Christians denying that they could be just as extreme. The vast majority of Christians are not, and never will be extremists, they just have their own faith and are happy with it, and no one really minds.
The vast majority of Muslims are the same.
The vast majority of ANY religion are the same.
Don't mistake an attack on A religion as an attack on YOUR faith.

Whew! Thanks. That is a partial relief to know this.
Not sure which camp/category my own comments fall within, but I am hoping for the better side, at least... =)

Now.. down to the nitty-gritty stuff...
I wasn't going to say the following (which will be further in *and* in colorful font highlights for emphasis, just in case of being overlooked into a not important to know category)...
...the following nitty-gritty stuff ~ because I did NOT feel it was absolutely necessary ~ and I could have posted much earlier, but considering the many comments that have since popped up in this *political* topic, I think the need to share it might be helpful to have the FULL (basic) context for better comprehension.

But firstly... just to clear something else up first, even tho it *is* also related to the latter batch of comments...

I have a feeling that FH was more frustrated with the fact that yet another "pagan" symbol was being appropriated and the assertion that "all we really know is..........."
we DO know what it is, we DO know where it comes from, and anyone using a computer can easily learn this if they choose to.
As for doctors not knowing it, it's not a surprise given that the classical Hippocratic oath is no longer in use.

"We" as in a select few, that hardly qualifies someone as a "dumbass". It'd be like a 10 year old from Kyrgyzstan being called a "dumbass" because he doesn't know the names of the main characters in Lord of the Rings...why would he know and what would that have anything to do with someone's intelligence? ...

SGalisa is neither a 10 year old, or from Kyrgyzstan.
But nice try.

GF (and anyone else who might be involved in this jousting match)
Just for observational purposes... I think aretood2 knows or understands that I am not that young, nor from that region of the world. Personally, I thought the comparison was appropriate, but not for any reasons anyone else here might be thinking... I will eventually explain *why*...
(it's a biggie and it's important, IMO).


I understand this political topic is out of my league, so I *am* the OBVIOUS oddball persona in here. But if the *little people* voices don't ever get heard about various items that we may be concerned with or have encountered and on a whim might share out of the "deep blue" of space ---- then our political leaders, movers, and shakers of this world will just pretend they don't exist and put forth *their* own agendas by setting up policies and "whatnots" (for a lack of a better word here), and those of us underlings will merely get proverbially walked all over upon -- as if our voices and words don't mean SQUAT... just as in the feudal, ancient dark times of our history.

Well, that's my political statement for the "underlings" on this planet.

For proper context, please know the backstory for a moment to where this started...
I was trying to understand how most of (generic) *YOU* folks in this topic were associating Christianity with passing "it's own (spiritual) Laws" in the USA policies, when in fact, I never see it... and I read the USA Federal Registers every single work-week day, which eventually end up in the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations... which are also part of the USA LAW Code. (That's the political side of this conversation.)

So, how is "President" Donald Trump attempting to pass Christian Laws when there is NO such "Christian" Law in the Bible? It's completely Jewish in origin. Yeah, let's not rehash that whole conversation, please.

GF finally explained to me a semi-reasonable answer with---

If you use religious doctrine to create secular law, you are creating religious law.

And a bunch of other replies back and forth went on... until we got to this next one--which MORPHED into various Bible comprehensions for reinforcement--
Please note the following-- =)

...The problem only arises when a religion, any religion want to use it's morals or directives as a foundation for secular law. That desire -creates- law if it is allowed to pass.
...
However.........
You must agree that there are more than one interpretation on weather the OT laws are still applicable, and, even if they are not "laws" in the legal sense, they should certainly be considered laws in the spiritual sense. It is the point where moving them from the spiritual, back to the legal becomes an issue.

Yes, I do see a wide variety of POVs at interpreting the many ancient Jewish Laws.

Part of the problem is finding out that too many people *think* that most of the ancient laws don't need to be applied to modern day living situations. So, instead of looking at what was written as a historical record for people living in ancient times, people living in today's time era want to change the actual wording and phrasing of the Bible to conform with modern day (20th or 21st century A.D./C.E.) living...

Next came my explanation of how I perceived biblical stuff...

*Obviously* ~ Most people today do NOT read the Bible as I was taught by many Pastors and even Sunday School teachers -- who explained that the Bible is basically a "history" book for the most part with emphasis also on spiritual things. It is also sometimes filled with medical health advice ... for example, in Numbers 21:9--
"So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived." (New International Version (NIV))

Are there any significant details missing in this generalized verse that makes it appear as a *faith* ONLY issue..? People who write don't always add in other details that are already well known at the time of that particular writing, which seems to happen more often than not.

Anywho, not to rehash that whole inquisition out -- I do need to point out that FH, Gatecat, AND LtColCarter *each* came out with their *scholarly* scolding implying that *I* should KNOW better about where Moses got the snake symbol from for the situation concerning when the Hebrews were wandering around the desert and got bit by venomous snakes.

----Wait... not done with this yet... part 2 of hmmmm#? coming up----

[SGalisa]

Ok... spoiler space for some of those most passionate comments about that snake rod/symbol

Spoiler:

and just for the record, not every comment below was being *hurled* at me...btw
(thank you aretood2 =)

*borrows Gatefan's sledgehammer*
...
That's the STAFF OF ASCLEPIUS, you dumbass!

Associated with the GOD of healing and medicine, Asclepius, in ANCIENT GREECE.

Caduceus is widely used, mistakenly, here in the US. But not knowing about either hardly qualifies one as a "dumbass" considering that they are trivial symbols that are simply taken for granted. Especially considering that even among medical professionals there is a confusion concerning both symbols. Honestly, seems that you are simply looking for an excuse to offend SG more so than anything else.

I can totally understand FH's reaction. Because I have RARELY observed such an utter ignorance, even denial, of widely known historical facts as SGalisa shows MOST of the times. And I guess for FH (and me) as studied historians it just hurts. When reading her post one does only want to knock some sense into her...

I mean, seriously, the Old Testament is NOT historical fact (even Herodotus is more accurate) The Israelites borrowed, copied and adopted a lot of the OT events from neighbouring cultures and religions, mainly from Sumerians.

Really? This is medical advice? To get bitten by a "bronze snake and look at the snake," is medical advice? Really? Washing your hands is better medical advice...

Wow...I think someone drank the kool-aid with a pound of sugar in it. Granted, there are things in the Bible that could be construed as medical advice...but this...this is by far not medical advice. I'm Catholic, and I grew up attending Catholic school and religion classes taught by Nuns. Never did they suggest the Bible containing any sort of medical treatise.

It falls into the category of the *medical field*. First Aiders and EMT folks should be able to understand at least that much of what has been shared. Apologies that I wrote the wrong terminology or phrase... tho, I should not have to apologize for that in a simple discussion.
rollseyees

Sorry about the spelling in that last quote.. I thought of fixing the typo, but I was interrupted while writing it up -- with a different type of Medical Emergency of all things -- and decided to just leave it. *sigh*

I wrote the whole story *as is* for a REASON. Here is the quickie quote again..

I'm only guessing that it may be difficult to understand what I am about to say, but some people - such as myself - think with the simplicity mind similar to that of a child. I told the Moses and wilderness desert story as I came upon discovering it. If that is too much to comprehend - in *simple* terms or how someone else's method of thinking might *actually* work, then I dread to think of how teachers, professors and parents, who have "higher" scholastic teaching abilities are connecting with their students/children and just can't relate to what makes their kids say the *craziest* things... Sorry, but that's how my brain thinks... I didn't create it that way, and no higher power of learning has changed it, either.

What *I* posted in contrast to what was the rest of *you* superior scholars posted is NOT rooted in *ignorance*.

Did it *ever* occur to anyone of you --who passionately went on your various rants against what I wrote-- Did it EVER occur to any of *you* that
Just *Maybe* I never EVER came across the origin(s) of WHERE the medical snake symbol *before*...?

Whether I ever came across the history of the symbol or not, I *don't* remember...EVER... Period. Plain and Simple. Has nothing to do with ignorance (which has negative connotations thereof) of what *you* know vs. what *I* know.

It has EVERYTHING to do with -- never being taught that info EVER in my entire 50+ years of my life... Imagine that for a scenario.
*OMG! It's impossible* -- you might scream that "It's NOT possible!!!"...

Really? I *said* that I told the Moses and snake symbol story as I learned it.
So, the real question is -- was it EVER taught in the scholastic educational system that I grew up in? Honestly, I don't remember. Here's what I do know---

WHY should I look up something via an encyclopedia or on the INTERNET -- a piece of trivial info that I do not find significant in my lifetime, and *especially* since I never heard of it in my entire educational school life? And I went thru a tough school system when I moved into a more urban area later in my life. Was it the fault of the teachers? Or the fault of the classroom focusing on more *important* historical info that was relevant to our course of study?

I have to say that for one thing, my history classes focused more on wars and the growth of civilization thru the centuries. Sure, we learned about the more popular Greek "gods" and their attributes. But origins of medical imagery *trivia* -- which is what this SNAKE symbol falls within -- NO. It *NEVER* --to my knowledge-- ever came up.

So.... just *try* to imagine the following scenarios.
Sitting in a medical hospital -- what are (generic) you there for? To find out what ails you or to get better (healed). Are you ever concerned enough to wonder where that snake symbol came from? Maybe. But for the majority of folks I know, I don't think so...

A person takes First Aid and CPR classes. Focus is on immediate *health* concerns and how to fix injuries and heal the sick. Medical snake symbol is ON the cover of the book and on various pages within. If the origin is noted somewhere in the book, was it overlooked because it's just a piece of triva? Seriously, it is minor info that most people I know don't care about...! If it was ever viewed upon and simply forgotten, just maybe because the focus was emphasized MORE to learn about caring for others in need of immediate or long term health assistance, and not to dwell on some snake symbol that everyone sees nearly everywhere -- even if it *is* a universal Medical logo.


So, does it matter where it originated from? Do you care? Of course you people with higher diploma degrees *care*...! I get that... but apparently, some of you folks here don't comprehend as I do, or see things as I have. And most people I've ever met would think you were from Mars if you ever questioned my so-called "ignorance" on a important icon (to you) that has a piece of probable non-important triva behind its medical image. Like I really need to know about the Greek gods and what they did... Me, of all people, a HUGE supporter of the Xena and Hercules Tv series, too. I Never *ever* remember hearing about that medical image -- even on those shows.

I only *NEED* to know that particular snake symbol image as well as many others related to it represent
"MEDICAL HELP/Assistance available here"... Period.
That's ALL the info I *need* to know. Even my geeky boss(es) might react as I have (as in "who is the *idiot* in the room now?" and probably blurt it out just like that, too)...

Grant it, once this whole conversation got into high gear, I did finally look it up ON the internet. First viewing... Still a piece of trivial info. I like how I learned about the symbol *my* way better. Why? Because I know there are many more people who might see this whole conversation the way I saw it. Most of you people on here went hog-wild ridiculous over a Medical symbol...!

All of *You* who have prior knowledge of this stuff may find my encounter a bit OFF the wall...nutzo... but I know that I'm in good company... lots of other *ignoramaces* like me out there on this planet
(*ignoramaces* = since that's the word *some* of you want to plaster to me or my situation).
Personally, I don't really care. I've become so numbed *against* this topic in here, that I don't care about your reactions, and I don't really care about how I came to learn about this specific symbol. It is NOT important to me. The medical symbol "itself" is NOT going to save anyone's life. Now, the people working behind the symbol -- YES, they ARE the important folks. Do most of them care or dwell on what the origin of the symbol came from? I doubt it. They are more concerned with SAVING your life -- and that is what the focus SHOULD be.

Just because the snake symbol exists in the facility or hospital you visit or are admitted into is there, doesn't translate that the whole world needs to know where it came from. The important thing is that the people who are wearing it don't abuse the medical knowledge they have been given. THAT is the important part of LIFE. IMO.

Anyone who wants to dispute this trivia any further, go ahead.

I will say this has been an interesting *learning* curve... I just hope other people aren't hit on as severely as I have --in this topic here-- with some *passionate* piece of trivia that means squat nothing in eternity. Just appreciate the skills of the people who stand firmly behind it (the universal *healing* medical symbol{s}). And pray or hope that those medical skills are NEVER used to abuse or hurt another person, but to help *save* their life. That *is* my focus on this whole thing; and that is where I passionately and firmly/sternly believe it *should* be.

okay.... rant and clarifications over... *wink-wink*

[Falcon Horus]

Yes...and cause irreparable psychological damage. Just like you can't pray the straight away...you can't pray the gay away.

I don't think praying does much phyiscal healing in general -- but that's just my opinion. Or mental for that matter.

Philosophically speaking, well... I guess that's been general you and your proverbial gods. *shrug*

Ummm...so...when are we going back to talking politics and getting off of the religion train?

I'm sure Donnie Demento did something stupid we can discuss -- how about using the shooting victims to put the Russia investigation back in a bad light.

It was boorish, and FH was being boorish. It's as simple as that.

Yes, it was rude. Trust me the first two words that were making an appearance were even worse than "dumbass". And no, I'm not going to apologize for using it, and you can be damn sure, I'll be using again when the situation calls for it.

That's elitist and extremely snobbish. But still boorish. I don't go around calling people "Dumbass" because they think Columbus was denied funding initially because everyone thought the world was flat. And that is an even more well known fact that isn't nearly as trivial to begin with.

If you think people know Columbus wasn't even Spanish to begin with, you have another thing coming.
Only the elites and snobs would know that.

Really, let's get back to discussing Hillary's crimes and Obama's sorry excuse for a presidency.

Oh, you mean that time when America was still considered a world leader and had most of the world's respect. You know, that time before you became the laughing stock of the community -- the banana republic or as I've recently seen it, heading head first into an authoritarian rule.

Who says Jesus was born in December?

I hear, it was actually November.

I forget where I read this, but it credible source. Basically, Jesus was born at some other time of the year and the celebration was moved to the end of the year.

The feast of Yule was convenient -- you know, bring in the pagans, into the embrace of Christianity.

So why not enforce the sanctions? Is that also him defending himself?

Oh, he did a number on that, didn't he.

[LtColCarter]

Whether I ever came across the history of the symbol or not, I *don't* remember...EVER... Period. Plain and Simple. Has nothing to do with ignorance (which has negative connotations thereof) of what *you* know vs. what *I* know.[/COLOR]

But it does. Ignorance is defined as the lack of knowedge or information. True...we could've used various other synonyms such as: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about; informal cluelessness about... Could I design a video game? No...because I am ignorant to the coding process. It isn't negative. The negativity comes from one's conotation of the word...not the denotative meaning.

Anyway...lets get back to polictics!

[LtColCarter]

I was watching the news this morning...and I couldn't believe that Mango Mussolini said he never claimed there was no Russian interference with the 2016 elections. I just cooldn't believe it as I've seen tweets and heard comments stating there was no interference by the Russians.

Fact Check Trump and Russian Meddling in Election

Why lie when it is in the twitterverse and in his live commentary during and after the election?