The Political Discussion Thread

[mad_gater]

The fact that you dismiss this topic as a fad, tells me that you still see sexual harassment as trivial offence. It's actually guys like you, who blame and belittle the victims and declare them liars, that they are too afraid to come forth and report sexual harassment .

Also, you don't seem to realise, that it takes A LOT of courage to come forth and accuse a powerful man like Weinstein. And yes, it sometimes only takes a handful of people to gather their courage and get the ball rolling, encourages others and set off an avalanche.

he might be talking about the people who come forward with a claim oftentimes many many years after the fact due to the lengthy, if any, statute of limitations on that particular crime

[Annoyed]

Too bad you think that the #MeToo movement is made up of "fake" stories because #MeToo ...

Must have been about 14 years old when a guy flashed me his private parts in public, walking home from school -- and about 18 or 19 when I had a guy getting inappropriately close on a trainride to school, sure putting his hands where they didn't belong -- and about 30 when an 18-something your old brushed passed my butt about two times, the third time I had him pinned against the wall with my elbow on his throat, hissing a particularly clear message in his ear (the first time I thought it was accidental since it was crowded). The teengirls standing in my vicintiy thanked me later for putting him in his place.

And this is the first time I ever told anyone about those 2 first times -- which even my family knows nothing about, or my friends.

So, you see... #MeToo comes in various shapes and sizes. And when someone says, man or woman, they have been sexually assaulted or had to endure behavior not appropriate for anyone's age or not taking no for an answer, or whatever... that whole transgressive behavior. I, generally, don't dismiss it at a whim because it's real...

I've said several times that I'm well aware this kind of crap happens.

In Jr. high school, a presumably gay male tried some crap on me. (I walked away, he didn't, neither one of us said anything about it to anybody. I was 2 grades behind the assailant, and I handed him his head, without bothering with the basket, which was no doubt embarrassing to him.) So I know first hand it happens and has happened for a very long time, approximately as long has humans have been around.

But over the past few weeks, how many claims have been made? Against figures on the left, right and apolitical. Citing events that happened decades ago. Hundreds?

I don't know what it is but something stinks to high heaven.

Oh, how many times my sister has to inform the men she's talking to that her eyes are "up here", and not "down there".

Don't take offense, I'm making no presumptions regarding your sister, but I've heard that tale more often than I can count. And in many cases, the woman has dressed to showcase her chest, but she just isn't happy about who is looking.

[aretood2]

Too bad you think that the #MeToo movement is made up of "fake" stories because #MeToo ...

Must have been about 14 years old when a guy flashed me his private parts in public, walking home from school -- and about 18 or 19 when I had a guy getting inappropriately close on a trainride to school, sure putting his hands where they didn't belong -- and about 30 when an 18-something your old brushed passed my butt about two times, the third time I had him pinned against the wall with my elbow on his throat, hissing a particularly clear message in his ear (the first time I thought it was accidental since it was crowded). The teengirls standing in my vicintiy thanked me later for putting him in his place.

And this is the first time I ever told anyone about those 2 first times -- which even my family knows nothing about, or my friends.

So, you see... #MeToo comes in various shapes and sizes. And when someone says, man or woman, they have been sexually assaulted or had to endure behavior not appropriate for anyone's age or not taking no for an answer, or whatever... that whole transgressive behavior. I, generally, don't dismiss it at a whim because it's real...

Oh, how many times my sister has to inform the men she's talking to that her eyes are "up here", and not "down there".

I think I remember you posting that story...the one where you whispered. I still think you should have sent your knee to a certain location to send the message home. Hitting men in the special area is no small thing. But some men sure to deserve it, and thus why most other men would laugh. You know, as long as you are sure (which you were) that he is doing that on purpose.

Yup, it's quite possible, some of it is fabricated, but do you want to risk the people who actually did have something happening, like my examples above, that they continue to think "Nobody's gonna listen anyway cause they'll think it was my own fault anyway, or it's "politically motivated" or they'll spin it one way or another..." -- I mean, rape victims have been told on more occasions than once that they were looking for trouble on how they were dressed.

I don't see where anyone implied fault here...I'm confused.

he might be talking about the people who come forward with a claim oftentimes many many years after the fact due to the lengthy, if any, statute of limitations on that particular crime

I do believe in the presumption of innocence. Though, admittedly, most people don't. An accusation is just as good if not better than a conviction in the eyes of many. Which is why "guilty until proven innocent" is a very rare practice throughout human history.

I've said several times that I'm well aware this kind of crap happens.

In Jr. high school, a presumably gay male tried some crap on me. (I walked away, he didn't, neither one of us said anything about it to anybody. I was 2 grades behind the assailant, and I handed him his head, without bothering with the basket, which was no doubt embarrassing to him.) So I know first hand it happens and has happened for a very long time, approximately as long has humans have been around.

Just look at the length you had to go to somehow "save face" for being sexually harassed/assaulted. You couldn't just say "I was sexually harassed/assaulted". Now imagine if he went further. Touched you in ways you did not consent, in very forward ways. I wonder if you would be even more hesitant to just come out and say "I was sexually violated". This is why people keep quiet for years at times. There is great shame attached to admitting being a victim to such a thing.

But over the past few weeks, how many claims have been made? Against figures on the left, right and apolitical. Citing events that happened decades ago. Hundreds?

I don't know what it is but something stinks to high heaven.

I too am suspicious that we may be too quick, as a society, to ostracize someone, especially on an anonymous complaint. However sexual assault isn't about sexual pleasure, it's about control. And it makes sense that most who are being accused are those in places of authority where they can exert that control. That said, we do have to be cautious about accusations. False accusations do happen and to crucify someone "just in case" is a miscarriage of justice in any form.

[Annoyed]

Just look at the length you had to go to somehow "save face" for being sexually harassed/assaulted. You couldn't just say "I was sexually harassed/assaulted". Now imagine if he went further. Touched you in ways you did not consent, in very forward ways. I wonder if you would be even more hesitant to just come out and say "I was sexually violated". This is why people keep quiet for years at times. There is great shame attached to admitting being a victim to such a thing.

I didn't look at it like that. I didn't do anything to "save face". I simply defended myself in an attack, and about 5 seconds later, he wasn't capable of going further. The situation was over. So I left.

[Coco Pops]

So no one can explain what exactly the Republican agenda for the USA is?

Do they even have one?

[Gatefan1976]

he might be talking about the people who come forward with a claim oftentimes many many years after the fact due to the lengthy, if any, statute of limitations on that particular crime

Jesus, would call your claim pathetic.
Is there a statute of limitation on sin?
Who is it you really believe in?

[Gatefan1976]

I didn't look at it like that. I didn't do anything to "save face". I simply defended myself in an attack, and about 5 seconds later, he wasn't capable of going further. The situation was over. So I left.

You lack empathy.

[Gatefan1976]

So no one can explain what exactly the Republican agenda for the USA is?

Do they even have one?

It's to limit federal government by reducing taxes and de-regulating -everything-
It's up to the states, because a nation of contiguous states can't affect each other, and the fed has no right to do it.

[Annoyed]

You lack empathy.

Do you have sympathy or empathy for your enemies? This person attacked me, declaring himself to be an enemy by that action. If someone attacks you, are you going to be sympathetic towards that person?

[Falcon Horus]

No, you're being too kind to Obama. Bush's war in Iraq has cooled relations with the US considerably. Obama salvaged what he could, but after that Iraq debacle no sane voter in the EU would sanction another major intervention anywhere.

Mmm... true. But I do think, even though I probably give too much credit, there was still trust between the allies and/or the rest of the world, depending how far he/we could throw each other. But with the current administration, fickle and everything -- saying one thing today, another tomorrow -- there's little left of what was still in place.

I mean, the US is literally left out of talks and/or not even bothered consulting with. The word of the US is quite meaningless these days.

Trump already survived too much. I'd be shocked if he suddenly got kicked out now. Especially since history gives us little reason to believe that a president would be ousted from power. Even "watergate" didn't get a president fired. He resigned.

But Watergate would have lead to impeachment, so I think resigning on his own terms was favorable.

Which is why I think it's time for Trump to step aside and let Pence get things done.

He will not step aside, because it would be admitting to everyone what we already know, that he's a miserable excuse for a President. He craves to be the best at everything. He's the bestest president ever. There's no one better than him, and he makes the bestest deals too.

His won't step down on his own, not like Nixon. They'll have to literally carry him out of the white house in a straighjacket so he can't get hold of any doorframe on the way out.

More on the #Metoo later, but don't you think it's odd that so many are coming forth at one time? This country is famous for jumping onto fads. Remember the Pet Rock?

I don't know what the Pet Rock is, sorry.

Although, the #MeToo movement is nothing new. It's been around since 2007:

Meet the woman who coined 'Me Too' 10 years ago — to help women of color

In Jr. high school, a presumably gay male tried some crap on me. (I walked away, he didn't, neither one of us said anything about it to anybody. I was 2 grades behind the assailant, and I handed him his head, without bothering with the basket, which was no doubt embarrassing to him.) So I know first hand it happens and has happened for a very long time, approximately as long has humans have been around.

#YouToo

Don't take offense, I'm making no presumptions regarding your sister, but I've heard that tale more often than I can count. And in many cases, the woman has dressed to showcase her chest, but she just isn't happy about who is looking.

I'm not. And my sister is the cover-up type (no V-neck's or whatever necks for her).

But I do know what you mean about those who are after the "right" attention and then complain when they don't get the attention they are seeking from the persons they want it from. They do exist (I happen to know someone like that).

I think I remember you posting that story...the one where you whispered. I still think you should have sent your knee to a certain location to send the message home. Hitting men in the special area is no small thing. But some men sure to deserve it, and thus why most other men would laugh. You know, as long as you are sure (which you were) that he is doing that on purpose.

I did, and I recently learned that apparently going for the nose trumps kicking the balls. Just slap your fist either up the nose, or grab the nose with two fingers and slam the head back. At which point, it's very much allowed to go below the belt.

I don't see where anyone implied fault here...I'm confused.

Possibly had victim blaming on the mind....

I do believe in the presumption of innocence. Though, admittedly, most people don't. An accusation is just as good if not better than a conviction in the eyes of many. Which is why "guilty until proven innocent" is a very rare practice throughout human history.

There's currently a transgressive case in the local media. Since I've been on vacation I'm not up-to-speed with the entire tale but it looks like he'll be guilty until proven innocent, as opposed to innocent until proven guilty.
The opinions are divided about what exactly occured.

[Annoyed]

I don't know what the Pet Rock is, sorry.

Believe me, I can't make this stuff up.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/pet-rock-ca...ry?id=30041318

These things were an incredibly popular fad, almost everyone had one or more.

[SoulReaver]

fresh news from Land of the Free:

1ST AMENDMENT ABOLISHED

de facto at least:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...cf5_story.html

it's a good start

[Annoyed]

Be more informative if you gave the details.

HOUSTON — The Latest on the driver of a pickup truck displaying a profane message opposing President Donald Trump and his supporters (all times local):

7:45 p.m.

The woman who has been seen in the Houston area driving a pickup truck displaying an expletive-laden message opposing President Donald Trump and his supporters has been arrested.

Fort Bend County Sheriff’s Office records show Karen Fonseca was arrested about 2 p.m. Thursday on an outstanding fraud warrant issued in August by the Rosenberg Police Department. She remained in the county jail Thursday night with bond set at $1,500.

A sheriff’s spokesman has not answered a message seeking details behind the warrant.

Fort Bend County Sheriff Troy Nehls had threatened Fonseca with a disorderly conduct charge over the decal. However, District Attorney John Healey said he didn’t think it would have been a prosecutable case.

But that wouldn't have been so useful in distorting the truth, would it? For either you or the left-wing news outlet you quoted.

The headline on the article: "The Latest: Woman with crude anti-Trump truck decal arrested"

She was arrested on the fraud warrant. Their DA himself stated that the sticker wasn't something he could prosecute for.

[SoulReaver]

Be more informative if you gave the details.

didn't have to cause I knew you'd provide them

was waiting for the warrant thing; but you also omitted some details:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3639346

so before she dissed Big Gov she had no warrant & now all of a sudden she has one?

btw the DA also said she can legally be prosecuted for "disorderly conduct" but he won't (probably to avoid public backlash)

[Annoyed]

Eh?

Fort Bend County Sheriff Troy Nehls had threatened Fonseca with a disorderly conduct charge over the decal. However, District Attorney John Healey said he didn’t think it would have been a prosecutable case.