The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

not sure where you get the hogwash that communism is supposed to be stateless....since Communism and all other forms of collectivism require the centralization and nationalization of any and all means of production....with the most logical vehicle for such centralization being the State

[SGalisa]

Fake news? Really now... So, who paid the NY Times to take out an entire FULL page article to push this Antifa "#Nov4ItBegins"..? Soros? (That's the speculation, since he paid his Open Society Foundations $$$18 million or billion to do whatever they wanted with it.)

New York Times Ad (from November 1, 2017), picture of ad is shown and noted in below link.


Ad in WND is a jpg image (looks like a screen capture image), so it's huge enough so that all of the details can be clearly seen.

Loved reading the comments at the bottom of the WND article... . . .

Your first link even goes to an article that shows it was nothing but a small peaceful protest, not the civil war that the Altright claimed. Why continue pushing a discredited narrative?

Your second link shows a poster that's just for a protest. It's not Antifa or antifa related at all. It's a separate and unaffiliated group. It doesn't call for violence or a civil war at all.

You missed my comments about the NY Times ad.
You called the whole antifa/non-antifa event out as fake news. It was NOT fake news, as the NYTimes had a PAID ad advertising the antifa-like protests. I asked the question, if the event was FAKE, then *who* PAID the NY Times to post the full page AD promoting the "Refuse Fascism" etc.?? and *why* would they PAY for a full paged ad for a FAKE news event? Those ads aren't cheap! They cost around (USA) $50,000 for a full page ad. ...Just read that a media ad before adding color costs around (USA) $150,000.

So -- who paid for the "Refuse Fascism" ad?? Would the precious NY Times insert a FAKE ad at a hefty price tag for nothing? Don't think so, unless the NYT is publishing FAKE ads now promoting FAKE news event stories within them, as well..! Doesn't give much credibility for the paper now, does it? But of course, anyone can publish an AD if they're willing to PAY the pricetag... so, again, curious question -- WHO paid for the AD?
(at this point, it doesn't matter who... BTW...the deed was already done)

I linked to both articles, because they both had a copy of that very AD on their web page. That was my question. Had nothing to do with what the group really was, which seems to be whatever you are spouting off about.

BTW, read elsewhere (on that other website) that the "war" against Trump/Pence is very real... and is going to get really interesting (hot) soon. Maybe not in the way you liberal folks here are seeing it, tho. Morph Middle East news from yesterday about Saudi's crowned Prince arresting other princes within Saudi house, and connect all of the dots (personas, organizations, whoever/whatever) who are connected to them (those who were arrested)... eventually the full picture will reveal itself... so goes the rumor... Ooooooo! ...it was like reading a suspense thriller novel .. TBC..!

The 4th was last saturday. Nothing happened.

November 4, 2017... yes, the date is now past that point. But I noted another event that was a MAJOR event that DID occur..
Something major DID happen Nov.4th, 2017. Saudi Arabia had major news -- ballistic missile attack from Yemen, or something like that. Crowned Prince in Saudi Arabia had many major gov't officials rounded up and arrested. Also, SA is blaming the attack on Iran. Expecting that region to get volatile any day/moment now. Everyone connected to the string of arrests is in a hot seat (that may mean inter-global connections, as well)... and SA doesn't play nice when they get serious.

Meantime, 2 Saudi princes have died whether connected to that series of incidents, as well. One died in a firefight, while fleeing from being arrested, and the other died in a helicopter crash (also apparently trying to flee...). BIG NEWS over there. May connect to folks on this side of the Atlantic ocean as well... once the dots get connected. It's currently about a global corruption story... and struggle for Middle East power control. BIG, BIG news. Major game changer... perhaps as one person phrased it --- "Game of Thrones, Saudi Arabian style"... yeah... sounds accurate enough!

Separate from the Antifa stuff.. or maybe not... Might be all interconnected down the line somewhere... so goes the (twitter, etc.) rumors.

[thekillman]

You missed my comments about the NY Times ad.
You called the whole antifa/non-antifa event out as fake news.

I called the civil war BS fake news. It was just a protest (not even by antifa) that the Altright blew up to a civil war.

The headline was:

Antifa apocalypse? Anarchist group's plan to overthrow Trump 'regime' starts Saturday

Which is fake news. Actual, clearly and demonstrably fake news.

Separate from the Antifa stuff.. or maybe not... Might be all interconnected down the line somewhere... so goes the (twitter, etc.) rumors.

better get your tinfoil hat

[Gatefan1976]

It's not a hat, it's a full bodysuit.

[Gatecat]

I'm afraid tinfoil will not suffice in this case, lead plating or a bunker a few meters underground works better...

[jelgate]

I suggest exiling to a deserted island

[Annoyed]

Well, you Lefties/Democrats ought to be in a good mood today. The Democrats appear to have done very well at the polls yesterday. Locally, they've unseated several long-term Republican incumbents, and the 'Jersey and Virginia statehouses went to the Dems as well.

The pendulum might be starting to swing back to the left.

[Gatefan1976]

Well, you Lefties/Democrats ought to be in a good mood today. The Democrats appear to have done very well at the polls yesterday. Locally, they've unseated several long-term Republican incumbents, and the 'Jersey and Virginia statehouses went to the Dems as well.

The pendulum might be starting to swing back to the left.

I wouldn't call that yet Annoyed. ATM, all I see is a rejection of trumpism, which is not the same as shifting left. Why I say that is because exit polling seemed to indicate the largest issues driving voter turnout did not seem to be either local or state issues, but federal ones like healthcare and federal taxation.

I wanna see the voter turnout numbers before making that kind of judgement. If the vote tallies are similar to previous years -THEN- I might say it's a shift to the left, but I suspect more people merely got off their arse this time.

[Annoyed]

I wouldn't call that yet Annoyed. ATM, all I see is a rejection of trumpism, which is not the same as shifting left. Why I say that is because exit polling seemed to indicate the largest issues driving voter turnout did not seem to be either local or state issues, but federal ones like healthcare and federal taxation.

I wanna see the voter turnout numbers before making that kind of judgement. If the vote tallies are similar to previous years -THEN- I might say it's a shift to the left, but I suspect more people merely got off their arse this time.

You can't compare off-year turnout with presidential and congressional years. Aside from a few exceptions, this year was mostly local issues, which always draw low turnout.

Locally, we've had several long-held Republican strongholds flipped; First Democrat Sheriff in 30+ years, several town supervisor and board seats that were long term R too. The loss of these long-held R offices to Dems was surprising.

[Gatefan1976]

You can't compare off-year turnout with presidential and congressional years. Aside from a few exceptions, this year was mostly local issues, which always draw low turnout.

Locally, we've had several long-held Republican strongholds flipped; First Democrat Sheriff in 30+ years, several town supervisor and board seats that were long term R too. The loss of these long-held R offices to Dems was surprising.

But that's the thing Annoyed, people did not vote on local issues, they voted on federal ones. feel free to check whatever source you want, but exit polling indicated it was federal, not local issues that drew the votes this time around.

[Annoyed]

But that's the thing Annoyed, people did not vote on local issues, they voted on federal ones. feel free to check whatever source you want, but exit polling indicated it was federal, not local issues that drew the votes this time around.

And what would trigger high turnout? Dissatisfaction with the current operation? Call it rejecting Trumpism if you want, but wait till next year. I suspect there is going to be a mass switch to the Democrats. It's quite possible they could take both houses of Congress and good number of statehouses.

It's like Pendulum; Obama was a swing to the far left, which triggered a move to the right begining in 2010, and Trump is completing the swing to the right, and I expect a significant move to the left in 2018.

[SGalisa]

Well, you Lefties/Democrats ought to be in a good mood today. The Democrats appear to have done very well at the polls yesterday. Locally, they've unseated several long-term Republican incumbents, and the 'Jersey and Virginia statehouses went to the Dems as well.

The pendulum might be starting to swing back to the left.

aaaaaack!!! I share your annoyance and pain. NJ went "ALL Blue" ... and tho I may really like certain shades and hues in the color blue, political BLUE is NOT one of them.

NJ suffered serious business losses -- which turned this state into a near "ghost state" during the Democratically ruled Gov.Florio years, and history has a habit of repeating itself when previous lessons are not learned and heeded from.

On top of all that, marijuana has passed as a recreational drug. Mild translation -- until people learn to curb and control their bad (wild or greedy) habits, that means more crazies on the road under the influence!!

In contrast (based on many stories I've heard about mj/opiods, etc), there are some prescription (pain) meds I refuse to take when I have to work, because they make the brain zone out (or feel a bit "tipsy!") -- sometimes can happen while driving... "hey the room is spinning!!" NO! no! no!!! Perception can get distorted, which is *why* every medication that may cause such a feeling comes with a warning about "do NOT operate machinery when using" ..also applies to simple objects too that could cause harm if misused or slipped from being in a woosey perception, even if only for a few seconds. It only takes one time for a major slip-up to occur, and that could be costly. But most folks will argue against how often such odds of those things happening in order to continue their "woosey causing" habits.

So, when people overdo their "recreational" drug habits, which some will use as an excuse for increasing their pain threshold (where the recreational drug turns into a medical crutch, too) -- that has been a big concern for a long while, but the "users" don't care and don't think about that, because they just want their *fix*.
Bad enough with DUI's from liquor / alcohol overdose, and general speedy, zig-zag weavers and road rage from other issues.

Just read a bunch of comments on another discussion site about Oregon's recreational drug use connected with its escalation of other "behavioral problems" (criminal in nature) problem. Time to move away..
Problem is that -- there ARE no more safe places to move away to. At least not many left on this planet.

[Gatefan1976]

And what would trigger high turnout? Dissatisfaction with the current operation? Call it rejecting Trumpism if you want, but wait till next year. I suspect there is going to be a mass switch to the Democrats. It's quite possible they could take both houses of Congress and good number of statehouses.

It's like Pendulum; Obama was a swing to the far left, which triggered a move to the right begining in 2010, and Trump is completing the swing to the right, and I expect a significant move to the left in 2018.

You are missing the point annoyed.
If you previously had 100 voters out of a pool of 150 voters, and Republicans won, that's a baseline. If the same voters still voted republican, but the other 50 now vote democratic and win, there is no real "shift" to the left, it's just that they are now engaged enough to vote. IF you still only had the same 100 people vote and the republicans -lost-, that would indeed be a shift to the left.

[Annoyed]

aaaaaack!!! I share your annoyance and pain. NJ went "ALL Blue" ... and tho I may really like certain shades and hues in the color blue, political BLUE is NOT one of them.

NJ suffered serious business losses -- which turned this state into a near "ghost state" during the Democratically ruled Gov.Florio years, and history has a habit of repeating itself when previous lessons are not learned and heeded from.

On top of all that, marijuana has passed as a recreational drug. Mild translation -- until people learn to curb and control their bad (wild or greedy) habits, that means more crazies on the road under the influence!!

In contrast (based on many stories I've heard about mj/opiods, etc), there are some prescription (pain) meds I refuse to take when I have to work, because they make the brain zone out (or feel a bit "tipsy!") -- sometimes can happen while driving... "hey the room is spinning!!" NO! no! no!!! Perception can get distorted, which is *why* every medication that may cause such a feeling comes with a warning about "do NOT operate machinery when using" ..also applies to simple objects too that could cause harm if misused or slipped from being in a woosey perception, even if only for a few seconds. It only takes one time for a major slip-up to occur, and that could be costly. But most folks will argue against how often such odds of those things happening in order to continue their "woosey causing" habits.

So, when people overdo their "recreational" drug habits, which some will use as an excuse for increasing their pain threshold (where the recreational drug turns into a medical crutch, too) -- that has been a big concern for a long while, but the "users" don't care and don't think about that, because they just want their *fix*.
Bad enough with DUI's from liquor / alcohol overdose, and general speedy, zig-zag weavers and road rage from other issues.

Just read a bunch of comments on another discussion site about Oregon's recreational drug use connected with its escalation of other "behavioral problems" (criminal in nature) problem. Time to move away..
Problem is that -- there ARE no more safe places to move away to. At least not many left on this planet.

I have no problem with legalization of Marijuana. With one special condition, I say treat it as we do alcohol.

And that condition would be that usage disqualifies you from welfare or any other public hand-out programs. We do not need another on-ramp to the benefits free(ride)way. If someone can indulge responsibly, without causing harm to others or affecting their ability to support themselves, what do I care?

[thekillman]

I have no problem with legalization of Marijuana. With one special condition, I say treat it as we do alcohol.

If i remember correctly, a major problem with marijuana is that there's no easy way to test people like we test for alcohol, IE there's no blow test apparatus.