The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

The picture depicted a walmart employee expressing her own values as Walmart policy while on the clock, performing her job, in company uniform. She doesn't get to do that.

what about NoKo citizens expressing their own values while on the clock living 24/7 in NoKo, with their company country's citizenship - wait they don't get to do that

and the big difference with your ideal is...???

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not so sure you do, or you would understand my answer.

The picture depicted a walmart employee expressing her own values as Walmart policy while on the clock, performing her job, in company uniform. She doesn't get to do that. If Sam Walton decides he can't sell condoms for whatever reason, he has that right. Same with the Ham. He owns the business, and he can decide to sell or not sell anything he chooses. Just as the CVS drugstore chain chose to stop selling cigarettes because the owners didn't think selling a product that damages health was something a drugstore should be doing.
If that employee in the picture wants to start a business, she can, and then she can choose not to sell Condoms or Ham. If she wants to go stand on a public streetcorner and proclaim that people shouldn't buy Condoms or Ham, she's free to do so.

But while being on Walmart's clock, performing her job, she doesn't have the right to set store policy. If she doesn't want to sell these items, she can quit. But she doesn't have the right to set policy for Walmart.

This is the exact same argument we just had with regards to the NFL players. The owners of the NFL chose to allow them to continue their protests, so they will continue. If the owners had decided not to allow them, then they wouldn't be allowed to continue without repercussions, such as getting fired.

That's how our system works. If you start, inherit or otherwise become the owner of private property, you have the right to operate it as you see fit.

I understand your answer, it's just irrelevant.
Oh, and most shopkeepers do not "own" the building, it is not -their- private property at all.

[Gatefan1976]

Do you hear the pipes Cthulhu??
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...deadly-serious

[aretood2]

Do you hear the pipes Cthulhu??
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...deadly-serious

Conservative media is almost throwing around accusations of treason as a result.

[Gatefan1976]

Conservative media is almost throwing around accusations of treason as a result.

Isn't it Hillary-arious

[Annoyed]

You are, of course, excluding several laws that do place limits on employers. There is nothing fundamentally offsetting in establishing that the state has a vested interest in protecting citizen rights within the confines of their employment. That is a fantasy of your own making, a popular one that sadly you are not alone in. And here is what you are missing in this conversation.

Companies and businesses will fire you if you publicise unpopular views on your own dime and time and place. Did you watch the last episode of the Orville? That's really where we are heading. Social media ends up telling your employers if you ought to keep your job or not. Not your productivity, not your work ethic, not your qualifications, and not your fidelity to doing your job as required, but public opinion. For example, in Canada a guy got fired from a channel, Damian Goddard, over "performance issues" which happened coincidentally after he tweeted "I completely and wholeheartedly support Todd Reynolds and his support for the traditional and TRUE meaning of marriage" in relation to a sporting controversial issue up there related to Hockey I think...they're Canadians. He tweeted on his own time using his own personal account. Yeah, I don't buy their excuse, he got fired for his tweet.

If you are not free to say your mind, then freedom of speech essentially disappears. It does not matter that the government can't stop your speech if at every turn some private entity will ruin your life over it. In essence, that freedom becomes nullified. You say something bad about a political party on twitter? YOU'RE FIRED! So what's the point of freedom of speech then? How about freedom of association?

Ironically you do take issue with Campuses limiting speech, ignoring that students agreed to the university's terms and conditions when applying for and attending that university. It's no different than creating an account here. The only exception would be public colleges, and they do tend to be a lot more cautious about limiting speech as a result.

You are correct about employers penalizing employees for expressing opinions that the employer doesn't like "off the clock"; That does happen and I don't think that it should.

But I am explicitly talking about "on the clock" situations, as was the case with the NFL players and the Walmart employee in Killman's picture. In those circumstances, the employer has the right to tell the employee what opinions can be expressed. And I agree with that.

PS: I did watch The Orville this week. I took it more as a commentary on the inane habit people have of collecting "likes" on social media these days. Who really cares what 42,382,179 idiots on facebook think of you?. The only opinion which really matters is that which you have of your own value.

There was also a bit of borrowing from a ST: TNG episode entitled "Justice", in which Wesley Crusher ran afoul of an unsuspected rule on a planet they were visiting.

[Gatefan1976]

So if liberals -own- universities, you are happy with them limiting free speech, right?

[Annoyed]

As long as they don't get any taxpayer dollars. There are more than a few privately held religious schools that would frown upon planned parenthood activities on campus, for example. As long as the govt. isn't paying for it, they can do as they wish. So can the left.

[Gatefan1976]

Do you ever wonder -why- the US is split across such sharp ideological lines?

[Annoyed]

We have a diverse collection of mutually exclusive viewpoints; "you can't have it both ways" on a number of different issues. Do we allow women to murder their unborn children for convenience? Do we allow illegal immigration or not? Do we move towards a "world government" or do we not? Should people be responsible for their choices in life, good and bad, or should the society pick up the tab for bad choices?

The answers to these an many other questions don't allow for compromise; the person who believes abortion is murder can't accept it as birth control any more than they can accept it for robbery or other motives, while on the other hand, the person who doesn't believe a fetus is a human life doesn't even see it as ending a life.

[Gatefan1976]

So, what would you have done if despite all your precautions, you were going to become a father and were not in a position to raise the kid?

[Annoyed]

I would have taken more precautions BEFORE the fact.

I've posted on this board before that I've been in relationships where the woman wanted to have kids but we were not in proper circumstances. Therefore, we did not engage in activity that could result in offspring. I wasn't flexible on the issue, and the relationship ended.

Perhaps this inflexibility has been a contributing factor to my being alone at my age. I know I'm well out of step with most people on this issue. But when I was young, not only did my parents teach me that an unplanned pregnancy would torpedo any plans I had in life, as that child would suddenly be my first responsibility, but I saw several examples of lives ruined or severely derailed by such things. I took the lesson to heart.

That's the idea. Don't get into that situation in the first place.

[Gatefan1976]

You are missing the point, as usual.
I am asking you about scenario A, I frankly don't care about anything else.

You find yourself in a room with a locked door, what do you do?

[jelgate]

I use Annoyed as a battering ram

[Annoyed]

You are missing the point, as usual.
I am asking you about scenario A, I frankly don't care about anything else.

You find yourself in a room with a locked door, what do you do?

And as usual, you are missing the point of my response.
We know what causes a woman to get pregnant. If you avoid that activity when it is not appropriate, you avoid the situation altogether. Despite what you seem to believe, people can do without having intercourse just fine.