The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

Please, America
Wake up.

[Falcon Horus]

I sat on this for a day, thought other people would post it:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...ance-bathrooms.

He pulled the federal ordinance, so states can now decide to discriminate or not.

A non-issue turned into an issue, starting with the HB2-bill in North-Carolina.
Also, they need to stop using women and children as an excuse for their transphobia. That's the most ridiculous excuse when at the same time your hellbend on destroying health care for women.

I also wonder what the guy who's saying he wants to protect his daughter from a potential "predator" will say when he's going to the bathroom and finds a woman walking in with him. Cause he can't distinguish between gender and sex. She can but her rights are of no importance to him. And the boy, he crossed in the hallway earlier walks in through the other door, also not what the boy wanted but he's afraid he'll get in trouble if he goes to the bathroom of the gender he identifies with. Cause someone might see him and hurt him or make his life even more miserable than it already is every day. He's written the note, but every day when he comes home, his parents are there to greet him and love him, and he's hidden the note instead, hoping they never find it cause it would mean he lost the will to continue.

They came for the Muslims, but as I was not Muslim, I did not speak
They came for the illegals, but as I was not illegal, I did not speak
They came for the LGBT's, but as I was not LGBT, I did not speak
They came for healthcare, but as I was not sick, I did not speak
They came for the media, but as they are all liars, I did not speak
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak for me.

A very powerful message, entirely lost on the Trump-follower.

Being POTUS, it's a 9-5 weekday job, right?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a3a0f0238c89

He's already blown through the same budget of expenses Obama and his family spent in a year. He's done it in 3 weekends.

[Gatefan1976]

He pulled the federal ordinance, so states can now decide to discriminate or not.

A non-issue turned into an issue, starting with the HB2-bill in North-Carolina.

Hmmm.......
I think it -is- an issue, not "because" it is an issue, but it has been made one, therefore it is.
My issue is not with LGBT people being discriminated against "per se", it's that basic rights are now a state, rather than federal concern.
Don't get me wrong, I think this whole line is stupid, but I am looking at a legal viewpoint. What rights can be stripped away by putting the onus on the states?

Also, they need to stop using women and children as an excuse for their transphobia. That's the most ridiculous excuse when at the same time your hellbend on destroying health care for women.

If I were to be so shallow as to project a phobia, it's not the "woman" dressed as a "guy", who has no interest in me that I would be concerned with, It would be the "guy" dressed as a "guy" that actually likes other "guys" that would concern me.

I also wonder what the guy who's saying he wants to protect his daughter from a potential "predator" will say when he's going to the bathroom and finds a woman walking in with him. Cause he can't distinguish between gender and sex. She can but her rights are of no importance to him. And the boy, he crossed in the hallway earlier walks in through the other door, also not what the boy wanted but he's afraid he'll get in trouble if he goes to the bathroom of the gender he identifies with. Cause someone might see him and hurt him or make his life even more miserable than it already is every day. He's written the note, but every day when he comes home, his parents are there to greet him and love him, and he's hidden the note instead, hoping they never find it cause it would mean he lost the will to continue.

Yeah, a bit more powerful than what I adapted.

A very powerful message, entirely lost on the Trump-follower.

Perhaps, but I persist.

He's already blown through the same budget of expenses Obama and his family spent in a year. He's done it in 3 weekends.

Yes he has, how fiscally conservative of him.

Please wake up America.

[Falcon Horus]

I think it -is- an issue, not "because" it is an issue, but it has been made one, therefore it is.

It most certainly is indeed -- the way you put it, I mean.

My issue is not with LGBT people being discriminated against "per se", it's that basic rights are now a state, rather than federal concern.

Basically, federal oversight is gone, so States, as I understand it, can do as they please.

Don't get me wrong, I think this whole line is stupid, but I am looking at a legal viewpoint. What rights can be stripped away by putting the onus on the states?

Well, from a legal viewpoint there still is Title IX. However, it's specifically aimed at education, so trans kids certainly could be protected under its umbrella, but it still leaves adults vulnerable.

-----
1. Title IX is a landmark federal civil right that prohibits sex discrimination in education. Title IX is not just about sports; it is a prohibition against sex-based discrimination in education. It addresses discrimination against pregnant and parenting students and women in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and math) programs. It also addresses sexual harassment, gender-based discrimination, and sexual violence. Sexual violence includes attempted or completed rape or sexual assault, as well as sexual harassment, stalking, voyeurism, exhibitionism, verbal or physical sexuality-based threats or abuse, and intimate partner violence.
-----

Bathroom-bills, the likes of North-Carolina are being drawn up in several states already:
So far this year, state legislators have filed 30 anti-transgender bills.

Not all of them are bathroom/restroom bills. There's a legend with icons in which category they fall:
* Health care bills: Bills that restrict transgender people’s access to health care
* ID bills: Bills that limit transgender people’s ability to update their identity documents (like driver’s licenses and birth certificates)
* Discrimination carve-outs: Bills that allow discrimination against transgender people by creating special exceptions to existing laws
* Restroom bills: Bills that restrict transgender people’s access to restrooms and other single-sex facilities
* Preemption bills: Bills that override municipal and county-level anti-discrimination laws
* School bills: Bills that restrict transgender students’ rights at school

Source: transequality.org

If I were to be so shallow as to project a phobia, it's not the "woman" dressed as a "guy", who has no interest in me that I would be concerned with, It would be the "guy" dressed as a "guy" that actually likes other "guys" that would concern me.

Yeah, a bit more powerful than what I adapted.

Meh, not going to apologize. [also, was actually ticked off with my laptop at work just now, taking forever to load stuff -- it helped to write that bit]

Perhaps, but I persist.

As do I.

[Annoyed]

I find it interesting that the most vocal of Trump's opponents on this board, GF, FH, SR & PH to list 4 off the top of my head are not USA residents/citizens, but the more vocal defenders of Trump's administration such as myself, garhkal & MG are US citizens/residents.
Wonder if our local perspective give us a view that the outsiders lack?

[Falcon Horus]

I find it interesting that the most vocal of Trump's opponents on this board, GF, FH, SR & PH to list 4 off the top of my head are not USA residents/citizens, but the more vocal defenders of Trump's administration such as myself, garhkal & MG are US citizens/residents.
Wonder if our local perspective give us a view that the outsiders lack?

Or we have a clear view, while the eye patches on your end are still firmly covering the eyesight.

Cause we've seen this **** before, and it didn't end well for a lot of people.

[Gatecat]

I find it interesting that the most vocal of Trump's opponents on this board, GF, FH, SR & PH to list 4 off the top of my head are not USA residents/citizens, but the more vocal defenders of Trump's administration such as myself, garhkal & MG are US citizens/residents.
Wonder if our local perspective give us a view that the outsiders lack?

Or we have a clear view, while the eye patches on your end are still firmly covering the eyesight.

Cause we've seen this **** before, and it didn't end well for a lot of people.

What FH said.

You might have helped to stop WW2, but you didn't learn anything from it's events. We, on the other side, are quite sensitive about those things now.

[Annoyed]

I understand that concern; I've said that I see parallels with certain dictators rising to power in the 1920's and 30's.
I don't think that will occur here; we have a constitution and a system of checks & balances that will put a stop to any such ambitions.

Long term, what I think will happen is the US will shift drastically to the right, which is a good thing after a 30+ year march to the left.

But it's going to be a tumultuous period while that happens.

[garhkal]

I sat on this for a day, thought other people would post it:
http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...ance-bathrooms.

They came for the Muslims, but as I was not Muslim, I did not speak
They came for the illegals, but as I was not illegal, I did not speak
They came for the LGBT's, but as I was not LGBT, I did not speak
They came for healthcare, but as I was not sick, I did not speak
They came for the media, but as they are all liars, I did not speak
When they came for me, there was no one left to speak for me.

He's doing what he promised, which is leave it up to the states...
And that chant of yours has been applied to liberal ideals for a while now.
They came for guns, but as i was not a gun owner, i did not speak
they came for conservatives, but as i am not one i did not speak
they came for christians but as i am not one, i did not speak
And so on...

[Gatefan1976]

I understand that concern; I've said that I see parallels with certain dictators rising to power in the 1920's and 30's.
I don't think that will occur here; we have a constitution and a system of checks & balances that will put a stop to any such ambitions.

1: You are not the only country in the world to have a constitution, you just have one of the longest standing ones. Indeed, the Weimar Republic had a constitution.
2: Yes you do have a system of checks and balances, the Congress can put a check on the Presidents power, but as you like to note, Republicans currently hold all major branches of government. Other Checks can be the Judiciary, but for that to be an effective check, you need to respect the judiciary and calling judges you don't agree with "so called judges" and undercutting their legitimacy in the eyes of the people erodes the effectiveness of that check. The other major check is the Press and the free flow of information to the people. That too is currently being delegitimized directly from the president. So, while it is true to say you have checks and balances, one will not act against the president so long as it serves the interests of the party, and the other 2 are being eroded on a daily basis.
How effective will those checks be?

Long term, what I think will happen is the US will shift drastically to the right, which is a good thing after a 30+ year march to the left.

But it's going to be a tumultuous period while that happens.

What on the "right" side is good -for the people-?

[Gatefan1976]

He's doing what he promised, which is leave it up to the states...
And that chant of yours has been applied to liberal ideals for a while now.
They came for guns, but as i was not a gun owner, i did not speak

Except, no one took your guns and only wanted limits on the kinds of guns you could own

they came for conservatives, but as i am not one i did not speak

Except, there were no FEMA death camps

they came for christians but as i am not one, i did not speak

Except, no one has made laws against Christians.

And so on...

Please, go on.

My adapted list has been acted on already.

[Gatecat]

They came for the media, but as they are all liars, I did not speak

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e-house-press/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...p-slams-media/

[Gatefan1976]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e-house-press/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...p-slams-media/

Like I said, they have actually acted on the list I put forward.

[SoulReaver]

Yes, it is hilarious, -especially- now.
The longer this goes on, the more people get drawn into the area of what amounts to treason.

you're still assuming the LSOS will let himself be subjected to the law. but for argument's sake let's say he does

Impeach trump now, you still have the rest of the nest of vipers to deal with, this time led by a -competent- leader in Pence, who is arguably more ultra right wing than trump. Connect them all togeather, and you get to cut the entire beast down in one fell swoop.

sounds contradictory - you saying Pence could also somehow be impeached? on what charges?
if he's worse than the LSOS yet no charges can be levelled against him (worse, if he's reinforced by his apparent "competence") then the commonfolk will be even worse off

Play the long game.

playing's not the problem - winning is

he's already on the throne so what if he plays Putin-style?

[Annoyed]

Good news out of the Democrats!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ther-left.html

A battle this weekend for control of the Democratic National Committee is poised to pull the party further to the left – the question is how far.

After a bruising series of elections during which Democrats lost the House, the Senate and finally the White House, the DNC on Saturday will choose its new chairman. The vote could mark a turning point as the party seeks to rebuild and potentially rebrand. But based on the leading candidates for the post, some see the party moving further from the mainstream.

So, get spanked at the polls by a decidedly right-turning electorate, and they want to go farther left.

*snicker*