The Political Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Ok, you don't like my idea, protectionist trade polices, then what is YOUR idea for pushing employment up and raising wages? I haven't seen one. Remember the goal is to drive the number of workers needed, and wage rates up. And just having the govt. give money away isn't a valid answer; the govt. has to tax people to get that money.

I did provide a few options, so despite a more positive climate, companies are still leaving.
Remember, I live in a country where taxes on work are among the highest.

How about this? We send the ones who don't want to go home or whatever to Belgium? Use your country as a dumping ground instead of mine.
If you don't like that idea, you had best not suggest that my country continue to be the dumping ground.

So basically, you didn't think that far ahead.

Cause, for the record, Belgium has.
Currently, though our Mr. Francken wants to send the immigrants back to Greece.

Absolutely the courts will, particularly a conservative court.

In regards to the registering of citizens, I think you are referring. I was talking more general though.

[aretood2]

So 'go easy on them' in essence, so 'we don't stir the fires further.. That's what it sounds like you are advocating..

What about trying each case in the court of law and deciding guilt and sentencing based on the merit of each individual case? You know, how the legal system is meant to be run in a democracy.

Well, since some of your stuff has come from the SPLC, a sight that clearly is hatefilled, i guess that makes us even!..

Wow...just...I can't explain this at all. You think a civil rights organization is racist? Why? Because it sues racists?

So Prebius is rancid? Or are you on about that briebart guy?

Prebius is THE establishment. Brietbart guy is a white supremacist and I can deal with Prebius as the Chief of staff. But Bannon what's-his-face's position is quite bothersome. But then again, you don't seem to believe racists exist, unless they are minorities or liberal.

So you are stereotyping..

No. He's not. Not at all. The Alt-right is not the right. The alt-right is defined by the goal to keep America white. The right isn't, it's defined by conservatism. The normal conservatives, the Reagan conservatives are not a bunch of white people who jump at the sight of someone with a little extra skin pigmentation. Reagan conservatives actually make sense and propose ideas worth discussing. Alt-Right conservatives are those who believe in segregation and never let that go. They are the Governor Wallace fans, they are the ones that post in stormfront and its off shots. They are the ones who look at jews with suspicion. And quite frankly, you seem to be a bit too apologetic to them.

And what are you going to say if 8 years from now, domestic manufacturing is returning, more people are able to find decent paying jobs that they can actually support themselves with and so forth?

You'd have to have a pretty strong Luddite policy to achieve that.

That's why you shut off imports from China. And a great, if some what simplified explanation of why "free trade" is bad for the U.S. worker.

These are the people who would loose jobs then: The sailors and dock workers and maintenance workers of the ships that transport Chinese goods. The truckers and train conductors that transport those from the port of entry throughout the US. The Warehouse and distribution hub workers (less material, less workers needed...even less space). Less space in the stores (less products) means smaller stores, less staff.

Now, you're saying that a lot of those unemployed will be then hired by the new factories. Well...all you're doing is moving employees from import and distribution to manufacturing and rerouted distribution. Net employment wont really change. Not to mention, you want higher wages...so that means not as much capital going into production. Which leads to smaller factories, less supply of goods. Goods increase their price, not decrease. That leads to smaller supply which means not as many new jobs will open up to really make any real difference and consumers loose a lot of options and goods they can buy.

Ok, you don't like my idea, protectionist trade polices, then what is YOUR idea for pushing employment up and raising wages? I haven't seen one. Remember the goal is to drive the number of workers needed, and wage rates up. And just having the govt. give money away isn't a valid answer; the govt. has to tax people to get that money.

And raising prices isn't a tax in and of itself? Sure I got a new manufacturing job that pays 16 and hour. But prices also went up which means no net gain in wages. A free market system does not work well with government interference. If workers want more wages, they need to unionize. And if manufacturers can't afford higher wages, either they downsize or they go out of business. Forcing manufacturers into a market they can't afford to operate in doesn't make any sense. The only way to do it would be through subsidies which goes back to taxing the people.

My solution would be to invest in education and feed into the information and service industry. There is no way the American consumer can afford to end his dependence in imports. He'll have to give up the diversity of goods he consumes. Protectionism may save job, but won't raise net wages and won't make it easy for people to buy stuff...which cancels out those wages. Not to mention retaliatory tariffs would also hurt whatever exports the US makes.

How about this? We send the ones who don't want to go home or whatever to Belgium? Use your country as a dumping ground instead of mine.
If you don't like that idea, you had best not suggest that my country continue to be the dumping ground.

Great! Let's get rid of all of these Cuban refugees! We've been accepting an unlimited unfettered number of Cuban refugees without any background checks for decades.

Absolutely the courts will, particularly a conservative court.

Not unless he stacks them. The ball is in Congress's court right now. Will they rubber stamp him, or will they stick to conservative values (Reagan values, not Alt Right values)?

[Coco Pops]

Oh look someone had a thought bubble......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...b099512f80f7b7

hmmmmmmm

[Annoyed]

I think we need a new thread.. "Laughing At Liberals" or such. This stuff is hilarious!

Coddling campus crybabies: Students take up toddler therapy after Trump win

Teddy bears, Play-Doh and coloring books are staples of nursery schools, but now they are showing up on college campuses to help distraught students cope with the election of a president they don’t like.

Around the nation, students are turning to the tools of toddlers as a bizarre form of therapy in the wake of Donald Trump's election last week. Colleges and universities are encouraging students to cry, cuddle with puppies and sip hot chocolate to soothe their fragile psyches, an approach some critics say would be funny if it weren't so alarming.

“This is an extreme reaction from millennials who are being forced to come to terms with the fact that we have a president that they don’t like –this is what losing feels like,” Kristin Tate, the 24-year-old author of "Government Gone Wild," told FoxNews.com. “We are grooming our students to be sensitive crybabies when we need to be showing students how to deal with world situations and how to be adults –there are no ‘safe spaces’ in the real world.

Do these schools even check for date of birth before letting them in? This is the behavior I would expect from a preschool class, or maybe "slow" kindergartners.

[Gatefan1976]

Oh look someone had a thought bubble......

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...b099512f80f7b7

hmmmmmmm

That story is not on Fox's Website, that I can find at least.
How strange...........

[Annoyed]

Wow...just...I can't explain this at all. You think a civil rights organization is racist? Why? Because it sues racists?

Very often, "civil rights" organizations are at least as racist as anyone else. I don't care if it's reverse racism, racism is racism.

You'd have to have a pretty strong Luddite policy to achieve that.



These are the people who would loose jobs then: The sailors and dock workers and maintenance workers of the ships that transport Chinese goods. The truckers and train conductors that transport those from the port of entry throughout the US. The Warehouse and distribution hub workers (less material, less workers needed...even less space). Less space in the stores (less products) means smaller stores, less staff.

Now, you're saying that a lot of those unemployed will be then hired by the new factories. Well...all you're doing is moving employees from import and distribution to manufacturing and rerouted distribution. Net employment wont really change. Not to mention, you want higher wages...so that means not as much capital going into production. Which leads to smaller factories, less supply of goods. Goods increase their price, not decrease. That leads to smaller supply which means not as many new jobs will open up to really make any real difference and consumers loose a lot of options and goods they can buy.



And raising prices isn't a tax in and of itself? Sure I got a new manufacturing job that pays 16 and hour. But prices also went up which means no net gain in wages. A free market system does not work well with government interference. If workers want more wages, they need to unionize. And if manufacturers can't afford higher wages, either they downsize or they go out of business. Forcing manufacturers into a market they can't afford to operate in doesn't make any sense. The only way to do it would be through subsidies which goes back to taxing the people.

My solution would be to invest in education and feed into the information and service industry. There is no way the American consumer can afford to end his dependence in imports. He'll have to give up the diversity of goods he consumes. Protectionism may save job, but won't raise net wages and won't make it easy for people to buy stuff...which cancels out those wages. Not to mention retaliatory tariffs would also hurt whatever exports the US makes.

Then riddle me this. Why is it that the decline of the middle class working stiff (which was already starting) accelerated right about the time we started making these stupid NAFTA (and similar) trade agreements?

You can theorize till the cows come home, but all the theories in the world don't add up to one case of having seen it happen for real.

[Gatefan1976]

http://www.morssglobalfinance.com/th...are-the-facts/

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

http://www.morssglobalfinance.com/th...are-the-facts/

He's not interested in learning the facts

Fox News has told him to be angry so that's what he's going to do!

[Gatefan1976]

He's not interested in learning the facts

Fox News has told him to be angry so that's what he's going to do!

Fact's?
We doan need no skeenking facts!!

(had to get it in before it gets deported)

[Coco Pops]

That story is not on Fox's Website, that I can find at least.
How strange...........

Or as we call it "Fox Noise"

[SoulReaver]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...rump/93864570/

"anti-establishment" some said?

[aretood2]

Very often, "civil rights" organizations are at least as racist as anyone else. I don't care if it's reverse racism, racism is racism.

Stopping racist policies is racist? Going after corrupt cops is racist? What kind of messed up logic leads you to thinking that?

Then riddle me this. Why is it that the decline of the middle class working stiff (which was already starting) accelerated right about the time we started making these stupid NAFTA (and similar) trade agreements?

You can theorize till the cows come home, but all the theories in the world don't add up to one case of having seen it happen for real.

You mean the same time automation happened? This is not theorizing, it's history. It's facts. It's things we have observed. It's math. For all intents and purposes, it's science.

[SGalisa]

USA "president elect" tizzy-fits news update..
The USA hasn't even reached December 19, 2016 yet, when the electorial voters will determine whether or not Trump stays or Hillary gets in.. and yet there seems to be an endless stream of anti-this anti-that, not only from the lefty Democrats, but also from the "establishment" ranks of the GOP/Republicans.

Yah-know.. if (generic) *you* folks complain too much, the electors just might put Hillary back in, and then there won't be any Trump presidency. Wouldn't be surprised if (Hillary) she's making a list and checkin' it twice, either. That would just provide enough extra fuel to her temper for coming down that much harder on the USA..

In the meantime, the whiny and lefty Dems + some panicky others who are anti-Trump, have been not only protesting their disapproval of this 2016 electorial college (which is something we used to be taught in school does happen upon occasion), well, many have been grouping, organizing, complaining, whining, crying, freaking out, whatever else for attention of their fears and disapprovals--well, see below articles for more details.

"Massive anti-Trump protests planned for Inauguration Day, police on alert"
Published November 13, 2016,
(©2016 FOX News Network, LLC)

Opponents to Donald Trump's presidency are planning large-scale demonstrations in the nation's capital in January when the Republican president-elect is sworn in on Inauguration Day, with police apparently expecting tens-of-thousands of protesters.
. . .
One protest is being organized by the group ANSWER, for Act Now to Stop War & End Racism.
. . .
And a pro-Clinton group named "RoaRR 4 Hillary" is planning a "Million Women March" on Jan. 21.
. . .
Authorities reported instances of vandalism and assault during a rally that organizers had billed as peaceful earlier in the day.

In other parts of the country, spirited demonstrations on college campuses and peaceful marches along downtown streets have taken place since Wednesday. In Washington, protesters burn at least one U.S. flag, which resulted in confrontation with a military veteran.
. . .
"I have a leader I fear for the first time in my life," said Nagel, a Bernie Sanders supporter who voted for Hillary Clinton.

"It's not that we're sore losers," she said. "It's that we are genuinely upset, angry, terrified that a platform based off of racism, xenophobia and homophobia has become so powerful and now has complete control of our representation."

Demonstrations also were planned Saturday in Las Vegas, Los Angeles and other areas.

Previous demonstrations drew thousands of people in New York and other large urban centers. The largely peaceful demonstrations were overshadowed by sporadic episodes of vandalism, violence and street-blocking.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Question.. Do these people realize that Donald Trump has refused to take the presidential salary, and is only taking $1.00 (if that) for his pay as our next USA president? If Hillary were being Inaugurated, how much would people bet she'd take the WHOLE $400,000.00 per each year salary--courtesy of each faithful taxpayer..?

Trump is basically not putting more financial stress on the nation by NOT taking the salary, whereas Hillary Clinton most likely would be taking the extra salary moolah.

"Trump protesters plan to build 'tea party of the left'
Progressives to go DINO hunting in bid to primary the party establishment."
By Ben Schreckinger
11/16/16 05:10 AM EST

. . .
One Black Lives Matter leader said he had spent the past week on "endless calls" with other progressive leaders pondering how to turn the movement into one that goes "beyond the protests."

"Nobody has ever pulled off organizing at scale outside of an election," he said.

One question that remains is whether such organizing will occur under a single anti-Trump banner or through the loose ad hoc coordination of progressive groups.

Representatives of both AllofUs and Roosevelt's Army suggested their groups could be the banner around which the Trump resistance rallies.

But the prospect of unifying disparate opposition groups under a single command structure remains a daunting one. And Ben Wikler, a representative of the liberal group MoveOn, whose members organized protests on the Wednesday following Trump's election, predicted the resistance will remain fragmented.

"There will be massive both organized and disorganized opposition to Trump's extremist agenda," he said. "And there won't be an epicenter."

Well, I have a theory about these events..
That all of these protests and opposition to whatever Trump attempts to do to push our USA nation forward again, will result in possibly martial Law, MORE law enforcement surveilance, more cameras, spy-drones, internet social media tracking, etc., and why??
Because the people just couldn't police themselves enough to let any "smooth" transference of gov't actions occur.

BTW, since "president elect" Donald Trump does NOT have the authority of control YET to stop the anti-Trump protesters, etc., that duty should fall upon President Obama and/or Hillary Clinton, since most of those people complaining are minions of theirs, NOT of Trump. Yet, not even the sounds of tree frogs and crickets can be heard.

If Hillary won't stop the protesters, etc., then she should at least enjoy her time off relaxing. If I was her age, I'd be looking forward to a relaxing retirement instead of work, work, work! eeeeeek! Unfortunately, the restless gooney crowds will cause more than enough damage to keep most of us nobodies working for the rest of our lifetime, never to ever be able to retire, since they won't even give Trump a chance to let his work strategies have an opportunity to be put to a calm but productive test-- and demanding a specific time-limit to certain agenda might not work if there is a constant flow of agitation going on in our country. Such issues have never worked well in other countries under those circumstances, and they certainly won't work here in the USA, either.

Also, it may take longer than 3 years to see any productive gains returning from whatever Trump has in his short and long-termed goals. Those results will show up faster and better if *everyone* calms down, co-operates, and stops pulling the chronic complaining agitator routines of "I don't like this and that.." (Trump is this or that!). If there is a valid reason to be concerned, surely such *noise* will be dealt with one way or another.

Just let's hope such actions do not lead into expecting Martial Law to result and certain freedoms to be stifled. ..Strangely, that is precisely what the (liberal) Dems were {threatening on} planning to do to the conservative and *not* Hillary crowds.

[Coco Pops]

Proof he is only being paid $1 to be President. I don't believe a word of that.

Meanwhile.


https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-...ouse-bill/2802

and

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_...nt_Defense_Act


That's quite horrible....... I hope it doesn't pass because it's just a piss poor idea.

Also the muslim registry, what next internment camps for those that are not Christian?

[Gatefan1976]

USA "president elect" tizzy-fits news update..
The USA hasn't even reached December 19, 2016 yet, when the electorial voters will determine whether or not Trump stays or Hillary gets in.. and yet there seems to be an endless stream of anti-this anti-that, not only from the lefty Democrats, but also from the "establishment" ranks of the GOP/Republicans.

That does not tell you something?

Yah-know.. if (generic) *you* folks complain too much, the electors just might put Hillary back in, and then there won't be any Trump presidency. Wouldn't be surprised if (Hillary) she's making a list and checkin' it twice, either. That would just provide enough extra fuel to her temper for coming down that much harder on the USA..

The faithless electors simply won't happen, no matter how much some on the left may wish it to happen
If you are interested, here is the list.
http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/electo...rump-faithles/

In the meantime, the whiny and lefty Dems + some panicky others who are anti-Trump, have been not only protesting their disapproval of this 2016 electorial college (which is something we used to be taught in school does happen upon occasion), well, many have been grouping, organizing, complaining, whining, crying, freaking out, whatever else for attention of their fears and disapprovals--well, see below articles for more details.

How quickly you forget the armed militia's who were going to "rise up" if Hillary won..........
Except, they would not be protesting, they would be out "taking their country back by force"..........

Question.. Do these people realize that Donald Trump has refused to take the presidential salary, and is only taking $1.00 (if that) for his pay as our next USA president? If Hillary were being Inaugurated, how much would people bet she'd take the WHOLE $400,000.00 per each year salary--courtesy of each faithful taxpayer..?

Question, do you know how much of a piddling amount that is to "joe/jane taxpayer"?
Ivanka probably made more with her "style alert" during the 60 minutes interview on her 11k bracelet............

Trump is basically not putting more financial stress on the nation by NOT taking the salary, whereas Hillary Clinton most likely would be taking the extra salary moolah.

Financial stress?? 0.00123 cent's per American citizen's tax bill?
Yeah, stressful.......

Well, I have a theory about these events..
That all of these protests and opposition to whatever Trump attempts to do to push our USA nation forward again,

It's not his attempts to "push you forward" that they are protesting, it is the reversion of years of social progress. Americans (hell, all people), have very little issue with government initiatives to move the economy forwards. If a Democrat, or Republican leader could talk Joe blow through their idea, and actually show a cost/risk/reward analysis for their plans, most people would not care -where- the plan came from. "We will win at everything and you will get tired of winning", and tearing up trade deals that do little to impact what you are wanting to achieve however, is not a detailed plan.

will result in possibly martial Law, MORE law enforcement surveilance, more cameras, spy-drones, internet social media tracking, etc., and why??
Because the people just couldn't police themselves enough to let any "smooth" transference of gov't actions occur.

No, because people like their first amendment rights and choose to exercise them. All you are doing is victim blaming. "If only you sat down and shut up, I wouldn't be forced to take your rights away"

BTW, since "president elect" Donald Trump does NOT have the authority of control YET to stop the anti-Trump protesters, etc., that duty should fall upon President Obama and/or Hillary Clinton, since most of those people complaining are minions of theirs, NOT of Trump. Yet, not even the sounds of tree frogs and crickets can be heard.

The law does not have the right -period- to interfere with peaceful protest, no matter who is calling for it. Hillary and Obama (especially Obama) have both called for the peaceful transfer of power, Obama is even willing to do more than Bush did when he ended his term and Obama was installed.

If Hillary won't stop the protesters, etc., then she should at least enjoy her time off relaxing. If I was her age, I'd be looking forward to a relaxing retirement instead of work, work, work! eeeeeek!

No matter what I personally think of her, Hillary has dedicated her life to public service, ever since leaving school, you think she would stop now?

Unfortunately, the restless gooney crowds will cause more than enough damage to keep most of us nobodies working for the rest of our lifetime, never to ever be able to retire, since they won't even give Trump a chance to let his work strategies have an opportunity to be put to a calm but productive test-- and demanding a specific time-limit to certain agenda might not work if there is a constant flow of agitation going on in our country. Such issues have never worked well in other countries under those circumstances, and they certainly won't work here in the USA, either.

What strategies?
As for constant agitation, gee, hmm, why did Republicans try so many times to gut the ACA?
Memory, it's an amazingly convenient thing sometimes..........

Also, it may take longer than 3 years to see any productive gains returning from whatever Trump has in his short and long-termed goals. Those results will show up faster and better if *everyone* calms down, co-operates, and stops pulling the chronic complaining agitator routines of "I don't like this and that.." (Trump is this or that!). If there is a valid reason to be concerned, surely such *noise* will be dealt with one way or another.

Sit down and shut up?
The very antithesis of the formation of the States, then the USA, how........... constitutional.

Just let's hope such actions do not lead into expecting Martial Law to result and certain freedoms to be stifled. ..Strangely, that is precisely what the (liberal) Dems were {threatening on} planning to do to the conservative and *not* Hillary crowds.

They are fighting to -keep- their freedoms, just in a lot less armed manner than what some of the trumpublicans were promising if Hillary won.