The Political Discussion Thread

[aretood2]

It might have emboldened him, but that certainly is NOT on trump (or his supporters)..

I fail to see the distinction here. But I'll remember the logic behind your opinion. Somehow I feel that in another discussion this could benefit me.

Now that i will give you. Too much fraud and waste. Though it seems nearly every time someone does try to get something done to reign that in, people 'whine' that it will leave the helpless out in the lurch, and we can't/shouldn't be that heartless..

Not bad for a socialist huh?

Again, i fully agree. Limit it to those who have 'paid their dues'.. I would also like to see it 'stop being a lifestyle' (it seems) where mom was on it, so kids wind up living on it, cause with all the benefits they rake in, they are better off STAYING on it, than getting off and working for a living..

Now I'm not saying that there is widespread fraud. That's your own conclusion. I just favor an objective based approach that seeks to solve an individual's problem versus a reactionary approach.

That's what it initially Was for.. A help Up. but somewhere along the line it mutated into a Hand out, which people feel entitled too, then demand... and too many politicians don't argue against, cause they 'want the votes'..

Bill Clinton apparently didn't want the votes. I think the real problem is that democrats are caught up in the nanny state philosophy while republicans just want to oppose them and can't be bothered with developing an alternative. And those that do offer alternatives get called "RINO's".

Why not go back to how it used to be (iirc before the 50s), to where to Emegrate here, you had to Prove you could support yourself via having a job, or sufficient funds, OR having someone who would pay your way TILL you got situated...
Heck, iirc that's how Australia still is..

Because, unlike you, I believe in the free market's ability to regulate itself in this regard. If people can't find jobs, then have them move where there are jobs or go back to their country (or if possible immigrate to another country). Mind you, I am working of an ideological POV here where everyone has the same basic concept. Workers will follow the jobs. The jobs will follow the areas where they are most efficiently run. That is achievable with a free market, free trade, and low immigration barriers. It would guarantee the greatest freedom and the most efficient use of resources. But I understand that we have to do it with baby steps.

And who was it that failed to do that.. The Democrats who 'Promised Reagan' to do so, if Amnesty was signed..

You keep saying that Democrats were begging Reagan for Amnesty and I keep not believing you considering that it was his idea in the first place since way back in the 1980 campaign trail...for his nomination. But once again, Amnesty was not the problem. The problem was the lack of "border security". I say that because it only accounts for barely half of illegal immigrants. The other half, the visa overstays, have little to do with amnesty since they did come legally.

Especially when its been done at least twice before.
It also tells those who ARE currently going through the proper route, "You should have just said screw being legal and doing the right thing, just wait around, whine enough and liberals will eventually ***** and moan enough that enough people will tell their senators "Give them amnesty".

That's not want immigrants are saying...

[Annoyed]

Bill Clinton apparently didn't want the votes. I think the real problem is that democrats are caught up in the nanny state philosophy while republicans just want to oppose them and can't be bothered with developing an alternative. And those that do offer alternatives get called "RINO's".

Another factor, at lest in Democratic cesspools like NY is that the people who administer the welfare systems tend to be well paid, and they're not about to do anything to reduce the number of welfare workers needed. They want their ride on the gravy train, too. So they vote Democrat, and the Democrats they vote for tend to want to count on those votes, so there is incentive to get more people on welfare... 'round and round it goes. The working stiff who pays for it is the only loser.

[garhkal]

Whatever happened to those threats to leave for Canada over Obamacare that Rush Limbaugh made? Isn't he a big fat liar?

Here's another liar..

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/co...rticle/2597153

Heck, didn't we hear plenty of actors and such saying the same with bush JR?? Imo these people just bloviate..

There was a discussion around here last week about schools being biased to the left..

This is from a college, but it ought to make the point.

'Green Lives Matter' college course title has some critics seeing red

Liberal activism in education. Is that what schools are for?

It certainly seems that way. Heck the University of Texas in Houston, student "body" has disciplined one of its leaders, all for the "Crime" of saying after the Dallas shooting, "Forget black lives matter, # All lives matter".
Her list of punishments include

A 50-day suspension from SGA starting August 1. This suspension will be unpaid (she currently receives a stipend of about $700 a month).
A requirement to attend a three-day diversity workshop in mid-August.
A requirement to attend three “UH cultural events” each month from September through March, excluding December.
An order to write a “letter of reflection” about how her harmful actions have impacted SGA and the UH student body
An order to put on a public presentation Sept. 28 detailing “the knowledge she has gained about cultural issues facing our society.”

http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/31/al...#ixzz4G6NQQRcv
https://www.zerocensorship.com/uncen...orkshop-302142
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-con...r-3168928.html

The first amendment expressly forbids things like Sharia law taking hold in the US political and legal system, it -ALSO- forbids Christianity, or Judaism, or Jedi-ism, or Heathanism, or Sikhism, or Buddhism, or ANY religion taking over your political or legal system.

Yet it has not stopped several places having to make 'additional laws' to stop Sharia coming into being, cause of the push FROM their muslim constituents in wanting it implemented..

As for the security, Secret service protection is STANDARD for all retired POTUS, so, as usual, you have no clue what you are talking about, just the Ex spade is getting "special treatment", so that's something to get upset about.

True it is normal. BUT did you note that Prior to his 2nd term, didn't congress vote to DISCONTINUE that practice, then reinstate it after he got his 2nd term?? Well IIRC..

They were trying be the American flag!!
(They even had stars at their convention!!!)

Though it took an embarrassing news article before they actually GOT an American flag in the convention itself..

Around 5% of the population do Coco, generally the same people who Donkey vote.

And since there's no punishment for DOING so, many don't see a reason to NOT be an ass on them..

I fail to see the distinction here. But I'll remember the logic behind your opinion. Somehow I feel that in another discussion this could benefit me.

Feel free!..

Not bad for a socialist huh?

Republicans though have been calling iirc for reform like that, for a while though.

Now I'm not saying that there is widespread fraud. That's your own conclusion. I just favor an objective based approach that seeks to solve an individual's problem versus a reactionary approach.

Commendable. However, how much time will be spent doing it on an 'individual basis' vice say an over arching policy?

Bill Clinton apparently didn't want the votes. I think the real problem is that democrats are caught up in the nanny state philosophy while republicans just want to oppose them and can't be bothered with developing an alternative. And those that do offer alternatives get called "RINO's".

Or the media harps on those alternatives as "Not doing enough, or going too far"..

Because, unlike you, I believe in the free market's ability to regulate itself in this regard. If people can't find jobs, then have them move where there are jobs or go back to their country (or if possible immigrate to another country).

As we see though, a lot of people are not willing to move..

The other half, the visa overstays, have little to do with amnesty since they did come legally.

Which is a point i have acknowledged.. But we need to get on BOTH securing the border, as well as removal of visa overstays.. Not just one or the other..

That's not want immigrants are saying...

And pray tell what ARE they saying, when they rant about "Give us amnesty"..??

[Womble]

[Gatefan1976]

Yet it has not stopped several places having to make 'additional laws' to stop Sharia coming into being, cause of the push FROM their muslim constituents in wanting it implemented..

Sure, you can do it. You can also waste time and money banning flying pigs if you want.
Won't change the fact pigs don't fly.

True it is normal. BUT did you note that Prior to his 2nd term, didn't congress vote to DISCONTINUE that practice, then reinstate it after he got his 2nd term?? Well IIRC..

I don't know.............
-Investigates-
It was limited to 10 years in 96 by Clinton, then Obama re-instated it to lifetime in 2013. As it works out, despite the drop to 10 years for 17 years, Obama ordered it to retroactively cover GW, so despite the law change, it really had no effect.
Well, that was a waste of time and money

Though it took an embarrassing news article before they actually GOT an American flag in the convention itself..

........ And the RNC never said America was great, just made people think it was the flaming paper bag on the worlds doorstep.

And since there's no punishment for DOING so, many don't see a reason to NOT be an ass on them..

No punishment, sure.
It's just stupid to do so however.

[Falcon Horus]

Yet it has not stopped several places having to make 'additional laws' to stop Sharia coming into being, cause of the push FROM their muslim constituents in wanting it implemented..

Funny how Christian law is never a problem...

Sure, you can do it. You can also waste time and money banning flying pigs if you want.
Won't change the fact pigs don't fly.

But Christian law...

[aretood2]

Heck, didn't we hear plenty of actors and such saying the same with bush JR?? Imo these people just bloviate..

Over the years I have come to apprecieate him as a leader. Sure, I don't agree with some of his choices...and he may not be the brightest bulb in the room of presidential lights, but I do feel the media was rather unfair to him.

Republicans though have been calling iirc for reform like that, for a while though.

All I've heard is "The poor are demons!!!" and "End welfare!!!" Okay, I may be slightly hyperbolic there, but it describes what I hear from them.

Commendable. However, how much time will be spent doing it on an 'individual basis' vice say an over arching policy?

What do you mean?

Or the media harps on those alternatives as "Not doing enough, or going too far"..

Didn't stop Clinton though.

As we see though, a lot of people are not willing to move..

Unless they have a compelling reason then, they should lose benefits. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.

And pray tell what ARE they saying, when they rant about "Give us amnesty"..??

Why would someone who is hear legally say "Give us amnesty"?

[Coco Pops]

[IMG]http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/Storyteller_101/pb160731.jpg[/IMG

That is brilliant I am stealing it

[garhkal]

Sure, you can do it. You can also waste time and money banning flying pigs if you want.
Won't change the fact pigs don't fly.

Yes they can.. See how a pig flies once i launch it from the catapult me and FH are building!

It was limited to 10 years in 96 by Clinton, then Obama re-instated it to lifetime in 2013. As it works out, despite the drop to 10 years for 17 years, Obama ordered it to retroactively cover GW, so despite the law change, it really had no effect.
Well, that was a waste of time and money

It certainly was a waste..
However the point stands. One dem drops it down, the other raises it back up..

And the RNC never said America was great, just made people think it was the flaming paper bag on the worlds doorstep.

I dunno. At least 3 i think.

No punishment, sure.
It's just stupid to do so however.

Just like there's no punishment for dunces who refuse to evacuate and thus have to be rescued after flooding or fires.... Even when those evacuation orders are MANDATORY...

Funny how Christian law is never a problem...

That might have something to do with this nation was founded in part ON christian laws.. hence the 10 commandments in courtrooms..

What do you mean?

I mean, how much time is going to be spent on solving things on an individual basis, rather than making a few blanket laws..??

Didn't stop Clinton though.

But did the media harp on him like they do when republicans say "that's what we need to do"??

Unless they have a compelling reason then, they should lose benefits. You can't help someone who doesn't want help.

That they should. BUT look at the butt hurt we saw from the media and the left, every time someone brings up "maybe we should reduce welfare payments to those with drug records, or make those taking drugs do 'spot tests' and if they pop, they are off welfare...

Why would someone who is hear legally say "Give us amnesty"?

I wasn't on about those here legally, but those here illegally saying that..

[Gatefan1976]

Yes they can.. See how a pig flies once i launch it from the catapult me and FH are building!

At best, that's falling with style

It certainly was a waste..
However the point stands. One dem drops it down, the other raises it back up..

How was that your point??
How can you make a point about a fact you knew nothing about??
Your point was Obama getting presidential protection, which, law change or not, he would have gotten anyway.

I dunno. At least 3 i think.

So, If I assume you are correct, it -may- have been said at least 3 times over 4 days, by Republican, the party that likes to own patriotism.
Is that right?

Just like there's no punishment for dunces who refuse to evacuate and thus have to be rescued after flooding or fires.... Even when those evacuation orders are MANDATORY...

What?

That might have something to do with this nation was founded in part ON christian laws.. hence the 10 commandments in courtrooms..

Err, no.

[garhkal]

What?.

You made the comment "No punishment, sure.
It's just stupid to do so however. ' in regards to Coco saying " Now what's to stop people making up all kinds of random poop on the census form just to be an ass?"

So if people willingly mess up on governmental forms to 'be asses' and its 'stupid to do so, but usually they are not punished', i responded, "That its just like those who get evac orders, but FAIL to do so (ignoring the order) and then have to be rescued cause of their willful stupidity...
We rarely if ever hear of them being punished for it.

[Coco Pops]

How much further to the right can the GOP go?

[Coco Pops]

You made the comment "No punishment, sure.
It's just stupid to do so however. ' in regards to Coco saying " Now what's to stop people making up all kinds of random poop on the census form just to be an ass?"

So if people willingly mess up on governmental forms to 'be asses' and its 'stupid to do so, but usually they are not punished', i responded, "That its just like those who get evac orders, but FAIL to do so (ignoring the order) and then have to be rescued cause of their willful stupidity...
We rarely if ever hear of them being punished for it.

That's kind of why I mentioned the "being an ass on a census form."

But here's the quirky thing that bugs me. The census is supposed to be anonymous yet you can be fined for putting false information on the form, so it's not really anonymous now is it? Liars the lot of them.

[Gatefan1976]

This is the first year names are being recorded on our census forms Coco.

[Gatefan1976]

You made the comment "No punishment, sure.
It's just stupid to do so however. ' in regards to Coco saying " Now what's to stop people making up all kinds of random poop on the census form just to be an ass?"

So if people willingly mess up on governmental forms to 'be asses' and its 'stupid to do so, but usually they are not punished', i responded, "That its just like those who get evac orders, but FAIL to do so (ignoring the order) and then have to be rescued cause of their willful stupidity...
We rarely if ever hear of them being punished for it.

Unless they don't get rescued and die, winning Darwin awards in the process...........