The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

how is this different from the republican party being openly against trump?

Trump had a level of support that allowed him to win, convincingly, against the est. Republican hierarchy.
No one predicted the level of support he found.
Also, Trump has the resources where he could have told the NRC to stuff it, and ran on his own. And quite possibly could have won against whomever the R's nominated & Hillary. The RNC knew that.

On the other hand, Sanders couldn't do that. He is dependent upon the finances of the national party. So he couldn't force them to go back on the backroom deal the party made with Clinton 8 years ago.

[aretood2]

While Cruz does make the right noises on illegal immigration, that's not the most important item. It's # 2.

The most important issue for the middle class is the economy and jobs. Where does he stand on reviewing these stupid trade deals that have screwed the middle class? Wasn't he in favor of at least some aspects of the pacific rim trade deal, which will be a disaster for US workers?

He probably stands somewhere closer to reality. I can't keep repeating to you the same thing you should have learned in any basic economics course. Manufacturing jobs were/are going away one way or another. They either disappear into the void of being unaffordable or get moved elsewhere. Unless you want to employ some sort of socialist scheme to force companies to dig into their profits to artificially (that is, outside of the free market) keep/create those jobs here at a loss, there's not much that can be done.

What other candidate besides Sanders (who had the bad luck of not realizing that the Democratic nomination had been reserved for Hillary 8 years ago) has admitted that "free trade" has been not so good for US workers, and wants to do something about it? Free trade has resulted in mega-profits for international corporations and their executives and management, but the middle class has seen their jobs and standard of living outsourced to whomever.

Sanders? The guy who thinks money grows on trees? That's who you want to take economic lessons from? Free trade also is good for consumers, makes things cheaper and provides a wider variety of options...because that's what a high competition free market is supposed to do. Of course a socialist isn't going to favor such a system!

In my opinion, these are two most important domestic issues we face.

The economy has been shiznit for the middle class for decades now, as both parties championed these free trade deals at the behest of their corporate overlords, who have done very well under these deals.

Democrats haven't really been fans of free trade, that's always been a republican thing since around Reagan's era. You must be confusing the GOP from say...the great depression era. Whose protectionist policies further sunk the US into the poor house by further breaking down all trade.

For the middle / lower class working stiffs of this country, Trump is the best choice by a fair margin And people know it. That's why he handed everyone else their heads in a basket during the primaries, and he might just do the same to her royal highness Hillary this November. The lower / middle class makes up a large percent of our population, and might just hand him a "mandate of the people" class victory this fall.

His tax plans would cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars at best, trillions at worst. His idea of "fair trade" could reduce trade as other nations retaliate to American protectionism, thus reducing America's dwindling manufacturing even more. With protectionism comes higher prices for products and a reduction of choices for the American consumer (and also quality issues) thus raising the cost of living. His foreign policy involves alienating NATO allies, South Korea, Japan and demonizing Mexico to the point that I am convinced you see them as a worse enemy than China and Russia. But that's okay cause naively believes that it is cheaper to launch military operations from American soil...which is far from the truth. He has an advisor who demanded that a 30 year old Ayatollah condemn ISIS, he doesn't know much about our enemies and thinks Putin is the best thing that has happened to America since sliced bread.

Not only that, but protectionism will also have another adverse effect on American industries. Component parts produced elsewhere (like Israel for example) wouldn't be as affordable so you can say good bye to their final product's cheap prices too which means a loss in profit and thus reducing production thus lowering employment rates.

It'd be easier to take you and Trump seriously if he actually gave details and solid plans as opposed to sound bites, attacks, and insults.

[garhkal]

Well, there will be protests.. and riots, if Trump is elected. That's just what will naturally happen, the grip of the media on those people is strong and they've been telling them Trump is literally Hitler - so irresponsible from the media. I doubt it will be a slaughter though.

And you can bet some of those protestors will get bussed in by the same people who ferried people to those riots in Cleveland, Detroit, Baltimore etc..

That's a matter of perspective. Though I did forget to mention in my previous post, I do think globalism has already been defeated. The reason I think that is because they went too far-left too early. They expected people to jump off the cliff with them regarding "blacklivesmatter" but hardly anyone did, it's backfired spectacularly.

And the Brexit vote kind of slowed them down..

If you have ever travelled to Asia you'll see Trump's US policies aren't that much different to countries like South Korea/Japan - they take their borders and the protection of their people seriously, that's why they have a great unique culture, great people and hardly any crime.

Japan can do it a lot easier though than we (or even china) can.. They have no where near the mileage of border we do.

Munich gunman 'had link to Anders Breivik', Norway killer

The gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings and had an obvious link to Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, German police say.

Police who searched the 18-year-old's room say they found written material on attacks.
The gunman, who later killed himself, had a 9mm Glock pistol and 300 bullets.

Police are investigating whether he may have lured his victims through a Facebook invitation to a restaurant.

He is suspected of using a fake account under a girl's name to invite people to the McDonald's restaurant where he launched his attack.

...Friday evening's attack at the Olympia shopping mall also left 27 people injured, including children.

Seven of the dead were teenagers. Three victims were from Kosovo, three from Turkey and one from Greece.

Police say the gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.

A grainy video appears to show a man firing a gun outside McDonald's as people flee.
Another video shows the gunman walking around alone on a flat roof before again opening fire. He can be heard shouting at the person filming, saying at one point, "I'm German".

The plot thickens...

It certainly does.. If he's been mental for this long, and was only 18, where exactly did he get the dosh to buy those guns he had?/
Also many reports during the time OF the shootings mentioned 2-3 others.. So why have we not heard any more on them??

As long as the ones legally here don't become judges...

If those legally here don't become the judges, who does?? Other illegals? Foreigners ruling on what our country can/can't do??

As for guns and ID, all I am asking for is a mechanism to keep guns out of the hands of those who would use them for murder. It's easier to throw away a would be murder in jail for having an illegal gun than a would be murder who has a legal gun. I can't kill a bunch of students or movie theater goers with my casting a vote once every two years. Unless I'm voting for Hilter or something, I guess.

But how do we identify those who will be potentially using them for wrong, to deny just THEM?

Is that what you think? Do you think that the riots start right of the bat every time? Do you think that all the protests have been mired by that?

Many DO seem to happen very close to when the shootings occur.. And since those take planning etc, it does make one wonder, how they got it all off the ground so quick to the shooting..

You can definitly make a clean case for deportations and border security and so on. No need to paint everyone with the same brush as Trump does. You can even make a few different cases for refusing carte blanch Syrian refugees. I just don't see any of that in Trump's rhetoric and when you "quote" it you end up projecting him and not yourself.

Then why does it seem anyone who IS for deportations/border control, often gets labeled by those on the left as xenophobic/racist etc just for daring to bring it up??

Don't you think that overly focusing on Michelle, or the Obamas, as opposed to the entire system distracts from that? Because it does. I doubt most of the higher ups in politics want to talk about it in such broad terms because they too want to participate in the same practice. It's easier to simply focus on the opponent to score some points with the public. This is why we need libertarians and their craziness. I love their crazy. As long as there are still conservatives and liberals to balance them out a bit.

Point made.. Though part of the reason imo a lot of focus goes ONT obama and wifey, is cause of how much MORE they have spent than prior presidents/first ladies...

is that a euphemism for "maybe because they're push-overs"?

OR maybe its a euphemism for 'we are not as quick to violence, just to get our voice heard..

Because there are more whites than blacks, yet proportionally black people are shot more often.

If a black man, on the ground with his hands up, STILL GETS SHOT, maybe that's a message to all black people the police doesn't give a **** about their lives.

When a neighborhood watch shoots an unarmed black kid and walks free, maybe that's a message to all black americans that the justice system, too, gives zero ****s about their lives.

Maybe, just maybe, black people feel their lives are neither safe nor valuable.

Then why are they not even MORE outraged that their lives are neither safe nor valuable based on the vastly MORE shootings of blacks by other blacks?
Why is it that they feel their lives are less valuable, just cause its a white person (or latino) doing the killing??

[garhkal]

Issue # 2 is illegal immigration. Proper "Immigration reform" isn't a re-do of amnesty, under the guise of "path to citizenship" or some such felgercarb. Proper immigration reform is effectively locking down the borders and then deporting every single person in this country illegally. No exceptions. If they have family here, their families are welcome to leave with them. I'll even go along with the government providing transport to the point of entry. If they wish to apply for entry LEGALLY, they can get in line behind the others who are following the rules. But of course, their record of breaking our laws by sneaking in or overstaying their visa may affect their eventual approval/disapproval.

And we have already seen exactly what happens when amnesty is done before.. Especially when democrats PROMISED to secure the border as long as reagan gave them that.. And yet 30+ years later the BORDER is more porus than ever..

Oh, here's a surprise.. NOT.
Wikileaks dump appears to show DNC favored Clinton campaign


Well, that will drive a number of Sanders' supporters into the Trump camp.

It certainly isn't suprising to me.. As to sanders supporters.. I am not sure even with this revelation, they will willingly leave the Shill, Hillary..

how is this different from the republican party being openly against trump?

Trump though BEAT their ass, even with them trying to steal things from him..
Sanders though got beat down by it.

[Falcon Horus]

I heard he was Iranian-German.. that would explain somewhat why he hates foreigners like Turks. But someone said he said Allahu akbar, so no idea what he's doing/is up to. A very confused individual.

The young man was born in Germany, with Iranian ancestry, but nationality was German. Kinda like African-Americans are Americans, just not white Americans. This one was not a white German.

He was depressed and obsessed with shootings the likes of Anders Breivik, and school shootings in the US.

For once, he really was mentally unstable which resulted in the unfortunate shooting, and no link to any terroristic grouping. He just lost it.

His name goes in the same column as Anders Breivik (Norway), Hans van Themsche (Belgium), and many others...

It certainly does.. If he's been mental for this long, and was only 18, where exactly did he get the dosh to buy those guns he had?

He had one gun, with the serial number viled off thus illegally obtained. Many rounds of ammunition.

The teenager was depressed, and suffered from possible psychological issues.

Also many reports during the time OF the shootings mentioned 2-3 others.. So why have we not heard any more on them??

Those reports turned out false.

[Nirude]

The young man was born in Germany, with Iranian ancestry, but nationality was German. Kinda like African-Americans are Americans, just not white Americans. This one was not a white German.

He was depressed and obsessed with shootings the likes of Anders Breivik, and school shootings in the US.

For once, he really was mentally unstable which resulted in the unfortunate shooting, and no link to any terroristic grouping. He just lost it.

His name goes in the same column as Anders Breivik (Norway), Hans van Themsche (Belgium), and many others...

He had one gun, with the serial number viled off thus illegally obtained. Many rounds of ammunition.

The teenager was depressed, and suffered from possible psychological issues.

Those reports turned out false.

Sad

Japan can do it a lot easier though than we (or even china) can.. They have no where near the mileage of border we do.

Japan is ruled by an extreme far-right secret organisation that makes Trump look like Barbie. They'll never ever accept immigrants. They're working on ways to fix the birthrate problems with robots. Good on them I think.. the world needs less people, right now.

[Annoyed]

It certainly isn't suprising to me.. As to sanders supporters.. I am not sure even with this revelation, they will willingly leave the Shill, Hillary..

I've read articles about former Sanders folks angrily rejecting Hillary and they will be voting for Trump. They feel (deservedly so) that the party betrayed them.

Trump though BEAT their ass, even with them trying to steal things from him..
Sanders though got beat down by it.

Any other year, Sanders might very well have won. But not against Hillary.

What I suspect is this:

In 2006/7, Hillary was the top dog in the Democratic field. And then all of a sudden Obama shows up.
I think that the leaders of the DNC made a backroom deal with Hillary; step aside this time so we can have the first black president & we'll let you run in 2016.

Hillary isn't going to let the DNC off the hook this year. Remember, she's been around Washington for decades, and knows where most of the bodies are buried, in addition to those she buried herself.
So, the DNC had no choice. Sanders couldn't be allowed. Any other year, I think Sanders could have won the White House.
But not this year.
And Sanders didn't have the resources to challenge the party on his own like Trump did against Republican opposition.

[Falcon Horus]

Yeah well, not paying taxes and having other people take the fall for companies going belly-up does have an advantage.

Also, all that outsourcing -- cheaper workforces and all.

[aretood2]

Japan can do it a lot easier though than we (or even china) can.. They have no where near the mileage of border we do.

Japan is in a world of hurt right now. Their birth rate is too low and if it persists they are in for economic woes as a result of demographics. They don't want to allow immigrants in to make up for the difference so they are shooting themselves in the feet for their xenophobia. China is in a similar situation, thus reversing the one child law. But right now, that is not enough and they too find themselves in the same situation. Several countries of Europe are heading in that direction and the only thing keeping their demographics feasible are immigrants from outside of Europe or from other EU countries that still reproduce in sufficient numbers. The only reason the US's reproductive levels aren't low is because of immigrant groups that seem to not be afraid of having babies. But the more assimilated they are, the less babies they have.

If those legally here don't become the judges, who does?? Other illegals? Foreigners ruling on what our country can/can't do??

That comment went completely over your head. I was pointing how totally must certainly not racist Trump doesn't believe that people of Mexican descent can be impartial judges. In other words, he believes that people of Mexican descent can't be professional. That's called either racism or xenophobia.

But how do we identify those who will be potentially using them for wrong, to deny just THEM?

I don't know, your a smart guy. Figure it out.

Many DO seem to happen very close to when the shootings occur.. And since those take planning etc, it does make one wonder, how they got it all off the ground so quick to the shooting..

So gangs must spend years planning drive bys. It's not that hard for a gang or hooligans to just go in and cause trouble.

Then why does it seem anyone who IS for deportations/border control, often gets labeled by those on the left as xenophobic/racist etc just for daring to bring it up??

Because you use language that implies it. Arguments that are not based on fact but fiction predicated upon fear. Sensationalism to cast entire groups into the most negative of terms. (Quick! Someone guess which "you" I am using!)

Then why are they not even MORE outraged that their lives are neither safe nor valuable based on the vastly MORE shootings of blacks by other blacks?
Why is it that they feel their lives are less valuable, just cause its a white person (or latino) doing the killing??

Because criminal blacks aren't entrusted with protecting and serving. The police are. And when the police don't protect but shoot, don't serve but Abuse, it's even more outrageous. Aren't you the one who advocates for harsher punishment for police who commit crimes or abuse their power? I don't understand how this is so hard for you to understand.

Plenty of white people kill white people. What would outrage you more? A white person randomly killing a white person or a cop randomly killing a white person?

The killing is tied to police brutality in general, it's just the entry point for that discussion. So you also have to keep that in mind.

[jelgate]

I've read articles about former Sanders folks angrily rejecting Hillary and they will be voting for Trump. They feel (deservedly so) that the party betrayed them.



Any other year, Sanders might very well have won. But not against Hillary.

What I suspect is this:

In 2006/7, Hillary was the top dog in the Democratic field. And then all of a sudden Obama shows up.
I think that the leaders of the DNC made a backroom deal with Hillary; step aside this time so we can have the first black president & we'll let you run in 2016.

Hillary isn't going to let the DNC off the hook this year. Remember, she's been around Washington for decades, and knows where most of the bodies are buried, in addition to those she buried herself.
So, the DNC had no choice. Sanders couldn't be allowed. Any other year, I think Sanders could have won the White House.
But not this year.
And Sanders didn't have the resources to challenge the party on his own like Trump did against Republican opposition.

I want whatever he is smoking

[aretood2]

If only there was someone else running that was a socialist and liberal like Sanders. You know, from a political party that's into the environment or maybe a political party that just wants to fix a bloated and broken system? Oh well. Two bad those two other parties don't exist...

[garhkal]

He had one gun, with the serial number viled off thus illegally obtained. Many rounds of ammunition.
.

So where did he get the funds for said gun? Even buyig one on the black market, still costs a pretty penny..

Japan is ruled by an extreme far-right secret organisation that makes Trump look like Barbie. They'll never ever accept immigrants

Strange, i know almost a dozen former mil who have retired to that country...

Japan is in a world of hurt right now. Their birth rate is too low and if it persists they are in for economic woes as a result of demographics. They don't want to allow immigrants in to make up for the difference so they are shooting themselves in the feet for their xenophobia. China is in a similar situation, thus reversing the one child law. But right now, that is not enough and they too find themselves in the same situation. Several countries of Europe are heading in that direction and the only thing keeping their demographics feasible are immigrants from outside of Europe or from other EU countries that still reproduce in sufficient numbers. The only reason the US's reproductive levels aren't low is because of immigrant groups that seem to not be afraid of having babies. But the more assimilated they are, the less babies they have.

And is that good or bad, that the only way we can keep our birth rates up is to import people who won't or don't assimilate???
At that rate, we will be bred out.. much like the brits tried to do to scotland with decrees such as Prima Noctum..

That comment went completely over your head. I was pointing how totally must certainly not racist Trump doesn't believe that people of Mexican descent can be impartial judges. In other words, he believes that people of Mexican descent can't be professional. That's called either racism or xenophobia.

I guess it did go over my head. BUT what exactly do people of mexican descent need to be judges of??

[aretood2]

And is that good or bad, that the only way we can keep our birth rates up is to import people who won't or don't assimilate???
At that rate, we will be bred out.. much like the brits tried to do to scotland with decrees such as Prima Noctum..

You mean like all of those Hispanics, Asians, Indians, and Africans (not African Americans) that celebrate thanksgiving and watch/play Football and bake apple pies and eat hot dogs while watching fireworks (or launching them) during the 4 of July after having served multiple tours in Iraq or whatever God forsaken land our troops were needed while having babies with English names? I still don't understand where people get the idea that immigrants aren't assimilating.

I guess it did go over my head. BUT what exactly do people of mexican descent need to be judges of??

What do you mean?

[Annoyed]

If only there was someone else running that was a socialist and liberal like Sanders. You know, from a political party that's into the environment or maybe a political party that just wants to fix a bloated and broken system? Oh well. Two bad those two other parties don't exist...

Heh, You do know I consider the claims of the environmental nuts to be pure fiction, with the real goal being the further transfer of wealth, right? I mean, one of the UN's "scientists" said as much back in 2010, I think it was. Confirmed a long held suspicion of mine.

[aretood2]

Heh, You do know I consider the claims of the environmental nuts to be pure fiction, with the real goal being the further transfer of wealth, right? I mean, one of the UN's "scientists" said as much back in 2010, I think it was. Confirmed a long held suspicion of mine.

Based on that logic, the Benghazi investigations are bogus because one republican said that their goal was purely political as a way to help debase Hillary's image. But do you really think that Sanders fans agree with you on the matter? They're more likely to vote for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein than for Trump.