The Political Discussion Thread

[Womble]

You mean a "but"??

I mean apples to apples comparison.

I wasn't looking for one, I find the notion pretty foul as I already said.

If you weren't looking for one, you were looking for something irrelevant to my question. In which case... why?

I can find condemnation of the War in Iraq, I can find condemnation by Muslims over Isis, I can find ALL kinds of things if I bother to look. That link however was merely to show that such an event -did- happen, and to allow people to choose their source.

But condemnation of the Palestinian terrorist attack by Palestinian authorities - can you find that? Will you bother to look?

I'm not really a fan of the Palestinian culture, what I am not a fan of is innocent people getting hurt, and I -do- believe there are innocent Palestinians.

There are. But that doesn't contradict what I said.

We had a shooting in Sydney yesterday, an escaped mental patient, plus a few innocent bystanders got hit by the cops as well, yet I doubt it hit the news anywhere else either.
Youtube and facebook are people driven outlets, and people post what they feel about, and people tend to feel the most about what affects them directly. I'm not saying it's right, in fact, I agree with our diplomat who you praised earlier, but I -also- know that his connection is based on what happened here as well, a -personal- connection, not because of anything else.

Escaped mental patient? Are you for real?

The attack itself was widely reported, but the crucial detail - Palestinian mass celebrations of the attack - were almost universally omitted from reporting. It's a pretty damn obvious case of unobjective, biased, selective reporting designed to favor the Palestinians and cover up whatever might make them look bad. It's systematic, too.

[Falcon Horus]

But condemnation of the Palestinian terrorist attack by Palestinian authorities - can you find that? Will you bother to look?

Hidden inside an article I found what you want:

"Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, reacted to the attack by condemning "all operations against civilians from any side, no matter the justification."

"The achievement of a just peace, and creating positive environments, is what contributes to remove and reduce the causes of tension and violence in the region," he said in a statement published by Palestinian news agency Wafa.

Israeli officials have denounced Abbas for not being sufficiently critical of such attacks, and accused him and other Palestinian leaders of inciting violence."

Source: Israel Sends 2 Battalions to West Bank After Tel Aviv Mall Attack

[Womble]

Hidden inside an article I found what you want:

"Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, reacted to the attack by condemning "all operations against civilians from any side, no matter the justification."

"The achievement of a just peace, and creating positive environments, is what contributes to remove and reduce the causes of tension and violence in the region," he said in a statement published by Palestinian news agency Wafa.

Israeli officials have denounced Abbas for not being sufficiently critical of such attacks, and accused him and other Palestinian leaders of inciting violence."

Source: Israel Sends 2 Battalions to West Bank After Tel Aviv Mall Attack

Abbas' statement doesn't even mention the attack, let alone condemn it. Lots of generalized weasel words to avoid having to actually condemn? I have actually directly quoted it in my revious reply to you.

Imagine me hitting you in the face and, instead of apologizing for having done so, I would declare that I am opposed to "all forms of unprovoked violence, no matter the justification". That would not actually be a condemnation or an apology for an attack on you, would it?

[Womble]

Israelis respond to terror attack with "pay it forward" campaign to support Max Brenner

volunteer for Israel’s United Hatzalah emergency response team told The Algemeiner on Thursday about his “pay it forward” campaign to bolster the Max Brenner chocolate bar where Palestinian terrorists began a murderous shooting spree on Wednesday night — killing four Israelis and wounding many more.

“I wanted to start a trend,” said 20-year-old Dovi Meyer about the campaign he launched Thursday morning, which involved purchasing nearly 1,000 chocolate bars at Max Brenner, and distributing them, two at a time, to passersby outside — asking each to give up one of the two to someone else, on condition that the next person buy a bar and continue the chain.

“As I started, businessmen began stopping and said, ‘You know what? I’ll buy this for my wife or for a friend.’ And the store, which had been pretty empty before, started to fill up. Outside, it was pumping, but inside, people were just inquisitive; they weren’t really buying. So I wanted to set that drive, and the only way I could do it was by doing something over the top. I bought an obscene amount of chocolate, so that people would buy one or two, and that’s what they did. They started flooding in…and I felt something really special about it.”

Meyer — who was an EMT in Sydney, Australia, before he immigrated to Israel two years ago — added, “Nothing gives me greater joy than helping people, and when I don’t see change, it bothers me and I speak up.”

Meyer also said he hopes the campaign will get people to shop at Max Brenner before Shavuot — the Jewish holiday that begins Saturday night — during which it is customary to eat dairy products.

Scores of people gathered outside Max Brenner on Thursday to sing and dance in support of Israel and place flowers around the site of the killings. Meyer said the scene, which included Orthodox Jews helping men put on tefillin [phylacteries] for prayer, was “quite emotional to witness, and it moved me.”

He told The Algemeiner, “Let’s buy Max Brenner out. Let’s take something that was so sad…and turn darkness into light.

I love my people.

[garhkal]

I'm not in the mood to argue.

You believe you're right, and I believe I'm right. And we both are wrong on so many levels. You want to sit on your high horse, be my guest. I'll be down here on the ground, hoping that some day there will be people who will figure out that violence and hatred won't get them anywhere. That day will be a great day, but it will not be in my lifetime.

The group more in need of figuring that out imo is the Palestinians.. a LOT more so than the Israelis.

BUT i do agree, i doubt peace will reign there in our lifetimes.

I'm against the death penalty

Are you for or against abortion??

[SoulReaver]

Are you for or against abortion??

I've already stated it but tbh I don't care all that much since I'm not concerned - let those citizens concerned & they alone decide

but hey I'll bite - are you for or against abortion? capital punishment? social welfare?
bonus: are you for or against masturbation?

[aretood2]

You mean a "but"??

I wasn't looking for one, I find the notion pretty foul as I already said.

I can find condemnation of the War in Iraq, I can find condemnation by Muslims over Isis, I can find ALL kinds of things if I bother to look. That link however was merely to show that such an event -did- happen, and to allow people to choose their source.

I'm not really a fan of the Palestinian culture, what I am not a fan of is innocent people getting hurt, and I -do- believe there are innocent Palestinians.

I don't agree with that kind of stuff.

We had a shooting in Sydney yesterday, an escaped mental patient, plus a few innocent bystanders got hit by the cops as well, yet I doubt it hit the news anywhere else either.
Youtube and facebook are people driven outlets, and people post what they feel about, and people tend to feel the most about what affects them directly. I'm not saying it's right, in fact, I agree with our diplomat who you praised earlier, but I -also- know that his connection is based on what happened here as well, a -personal- connection, not because of anything else.

I think the issue, at least for me, is that a lot of people like to pretend that somehow Israelis and Palestinians are at the same level morally. That the only difference is that Israelis are wining. That's what I read from FH's post.

I agree that I'm no fan of dead "innocent" Palestinians. But it's also hard to sympathize with a people that celebrate terrorist attacks at the same scale as Mexicans celebrating a victorious game in the world cup. Especially when the same isn't true with Israelis. And sure, there are that 5-10% that do celebrate attacks against Palestinians...but as I have said elsewhere, you'll always see that 5-10% no matter what.

[Coco Pops]

http://wgntv.com/2016/06/08/small-ex...anston-target/

Don't worry it's not a brown person so this wasn't an act of terrorism.

However having said that why do we make that distinction?

[Gatefan1976]

I mean apples to apples comparison.

You said FH could say nothing without a "but", then did it yourself, it does not get more apples to apples then that Womble.

If you weren't looking for one, you were looking for something irrelevant to my question. In which case... why?

I was answering the question you asked FH, nothing else.

But condemnation of the Palestinian terrorist attack by Palestinian authorities - can you find that? Will you bother to look?

I did, but I found no more than the vague one FH already referenced.

There are. But that doesn't contradict what I said.

It was not meant to contradict you, it was to show where my are of concern is. What Israel decides to do about those inciting and glorifying these attacks really does not bother me all that much.

Escaped mental patient? Are you for real?

Indeed I am.
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-...686a76ebee783c
(not a great source, but eh)

The attack itself was widely reported, but the crucial detail - Palestinian mass celebrations of the attack - were almost universally omitted from reporting. It's a pretty damn obvious case of unobjective, biased, selective reporting designed to favor the Palestinians and cover up whatever might make them look bad. It's systematic, too.

IIRC, the nightly news here did mention the celebrations (Mrs GF was rather shocked by it). OTOH, I only knew anything about the (addimittedly poor) apology from Palestine because you asked me to specifically look for it........
Let's just agree that the media is far, far too partisan these days.

[garhkal]

I've already stated it but tbh I don't care all that much since I'm not concerned - let those citizens concerned & they alone decide

but hey I'll bite - are you for or against abortion? capital punishment? social welfare?
bonus: are you for or against masturbation?

My reasoning for asking is it seems a # of people i talk to who are FOR abortion, are also against capital punishment/the death penalty.. Which makes no sense to me, how you can be all for someone ending a life that is innocent of anything, but NOT be for ending a life of a criminal who most assuredly is NOT innocent.

As for me, i feel Abortion is only ok if the life of the mom is in jeopardy from carrying it to term, If she's the victim of rape/incest.. As for capital punishment, I am for it. Social welfare.. I am torn. What people THESE days seem to see that as is more wealth redistribution, and a lifestyle, NOT a helping hand UP.. More of a hand out..

[Gatefan1976]

My reasoning for asking is it seems a # of people i talk to who are FOR abortion, are also against capital punishment/the death penalty.. Which makes no sense to me, how you can be all for someone ending a life that is innocent of anything, but NOT be for ending a life of a criminal who most assuredly is NOT innocent.

If you listen to a lot of pro choice people, their position is often predicated on what is deemed "alive". For many, and I dare say most, that is when the foetus is capable of living independently of it's mother without aid. Once that point is reached, most pro choice people will say that abortion is no longer an option.
It's not this "open slather" terminate at any stage that pro life people seem to feel it is.

[Womble]

You said FH could say nothing without a "but", then did it yourself, it does not get more apples to apples then that Womble.

Of course it does. Mass celebrations in the streets by thousands and a handful of extremists celebrating in secret behind closed doors? It's not apples to apples. It's the kind of manipulative reasoning that is beneath you.

It is also nothing like Falcon Horus' own double standard. My observation was that she appears to be incapable of condemning Palestinian atrocities in and of themselves without immediately "balancing" it by claiming that "both sides" commit them. (While she has in the past proven herself quite capable of posting at length about supposed Israeli wrongdoings without any obligatory linking to the Palestinian ones). You have simply added another variation of double standard.

I did, but I found no more than the vague one FH already referenced.

And that should tell you something.

Indeed I am.
http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-...686a76ebee783c
(not a great source, but eh)

Not what I meant. "Are you for real" was not a short hand for "did it really happen?" but rather for "are you seriously drawing this absolutely outlandish comparison with a straight face?".

IIRC, the nightly news here did mention the celebrations (Mrs GF was rather shocked by it). OTOH, I only knew anything about the (addimittedly poor) apology from Palestine because you asked me to specifically look for it........
Let's just agree that the media is far, far too partisan these days.

Of course it is. But it is biased in specific ways, and this needs highlighting.

For instance, this article which Yahoo borrowed from AFP. Consider the opening paragraph:

Tel Aviv (AFP) - Two Palestinians opened fire at a popular Tel Aviv nightspot near Israel’s military headquarters Wednesday, police said, killing four people in one of the worst attacks in a months-long wave of violence.

See what they did there? Indeed, the Sarona market is 5 minutes walk from the Kirya base where the Defense Ministry and the IDF headquarters are located. It is also 5 minutes walk from the Azrieli shopping center, the HaShalom railway station and the German embassy, but that was not mentioned because the purpose here is not to indicate location but to "contextualize" the attack to make it appear less of a terrorist act. The article actually reiterates a second time later on, in case anybody missed it, that the Sarona complex is "across the street from Israel’s defence ministry and main army headquarters". The photo which accompanied the article as originally published showed a group of Israeli policemen and soldiers; it was shot in the direction AWAY from the Sarona complex.

It's as if they're forcefully trying to direct the reader towards thinking that the attackers were aiming for a "legitimate" military target.

So yes, partisan. But not in general terms. Partisan in a very specific way.

P.S. The official Saudi media have issued some very strong-worded condemnations of the Sarona complex attack. Al-Arabiya actually referred to the dead and wounded Israelis not as "settlers" as is customary in Arab media, but as "victims", for which it was subjected to harsh criticism on Arab social media because only the Palestinians can ever be called victims. A prominent member of the Saudi Journalists association referred on his Twitter to the attack as "terror and thuggery" and extended his condolences to the victims.

[Womble]

If you listen to a lot of pro choice people, their position is often predicated on what is deemed "alive". For many, and I dare say most, that is when the foetus is capable of living independently of it's mother without aid.

In other words, until age 16 or so.

Unless you're Jewish, in which case a foetus is not considered alive until it gets married and graduates from medical school.

[Gatefan1976]

In other words, until age 16 or so.

Unless you're Jewish, in which case a foetus is not considered alive until it gets married and graduates from medical school.

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!


You forgot married a good boy or girl

[Womble]

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!


You forgot married a good boy or girl

I forgot, yes. I wish my mom could...