The GLBT and GSA Thread

[mad_gater]

I think that since man's nature is a fallen nature man's life on earth will always be characterized by his struggle against the fallen aspects of his nature that seek to lead us down dark paths. Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen once said "It is not atomic energy we have to fear, but atomic men." which I think is very powerful. Our struggle to overcome base impulses and act on good impulses is the lot of we who have a fissioned nature.

[Cold Fuzz]

It is true that Crossdressers are the most "least understood".
Please do not get me started on the dictionary definition... It makes me mad. As not all Crossdressers do it for sexual pleasure.
Some do it because they feel comfortable whilst dressing as a woman. In my case it helps me relax and unwind.
The first person I came out to, my mother, when I was about 15/16 made no assumptions to my sexuality. She was very understanding.
In fact she was very helpful as I took my first steps.

The biggest step I took was attending an event in Manchester here in the UK called Sparkle about 4 years ago.
It was also my first experience of being 'out' in public and I was made to feel welcome. In some way it also helped me with my confidence in myself. I've been back each year since and will be going again this year.

Ok here are some facts for you.
Not all transvestites wish to have gender reassignment. All though some do go on to transition.
50% of Men have cross dressed at least once in their lives.
80% of Transvestites are married.

I just wanted to say I think you're mother must have been a truly remarkable woman. Very few people in my experience are capable of true, unconditional love, especially in the manner she showed to you. My family certainly isn't.

I've had clashes in person and over the net. But I've learned to forgive and forget.
The "oh THOSE people" mentality can extend to the straight world as well. Sports fans spring to mind on that count.
But it's bound to happen. I just take it as it comes.



I've never taken a dig at "straighties". But even they have their own 'kinks'.
And I've yet to suffer any tension because to some I'm "different" and not "normal".
I suppose the within "your own" differences may seem a little odd. But it is something that happens. I put that down to human nature.

The two TV/TG groups I belong to have no distinction, in fact it is frowned upon.

Sports fans can get ridiculous sometimes. As a fan of the SF Giants, I know better than to show up in a place like Los Angeles wearing a Giants hat. People here have already seen what's happened with Giants fan Brian Stow. (read the final paragraph in the Notorious Incidents section).

[Gatefan1976]

I think it's something that'll always be with us. I think the key is to be aware of the behavior and use appropriate introspection to keep ourselves in check. Unfortunately, large populations of people aren't prone to examining their own behavior in such a manner. The large number of interactions I've had with the public are certainly an indication of that.

OH GREEN!!
(well virtual as I cannot)

[Cold Fuzz]

OH GREEN!!
(well virtual as I cannot)

Thanks for the virtual green.

The thing that makes such introspection difficult is that unwillingness of people to admit to the reality that maybe they're not as loving of their fellow human beings as they'd like to think. I've met people in real life who seemed like really nice people... and then you get them talking about certain racial groups or the GLBT community and all of a sudden there's all this verbal venom coming out of their mouths. I think such people embrace the dislike they feel for another group of people because they feel empowered.

[Gatefan1976]

Thanks for the virtual green.

The thing that makes such introspection difficult is that unwillingness of people to admit to the reality that maybe they're not as loving of their fellow human beings as they'd like to think. I've met people in real life who seemed like really nice people... and then you get them talking about certain racial groups or the GLBT community and all of a sudden there's all this verbal venom coming out of their mouths. I think such people embrace the dislike they feel for another group of people because they feel empowered.

Welcome.

I think some of the issues you are adressing here do come down to plain ignorance, rather than any actual *intent*. (not that the community hasn't suffered INTENTIONALLY cruel stuff, it has ). Sometimes I wonder if people (and I'm talking entirely in general here) doesn't sometimes go *looking* for the insult, rather than just saying "oh hey, you know I know you wern't meaning to be nasty, but that could be seen in a real bad way"
Education is your friend.

[Cold Fuzz]

Welcome.

I think some of the issues you are adressing here do come down to plain ignorance, rather than any actual *intent*. (not that the community hasn't suffered INTENTIONALLY cruel stuff, it has ). Sometimes I wonder if people (and I'm talking entirely in general here) doesn't sometimes go *looking* for the insult, rather than just saying "oh hey, you know I know you wern't meaning to be nasty, but that could be seen in a real bad way"
Education is your friend.

Oh I agree. Education is definitely our friend.

With certain individuals, I've seen what is genuinely friendly ribbing. Being described as a "pole muncher" once was pretty funny to me, especially since the term itself was pretty witty.

I suppose it boils down to intent, which requires discernment and attention of the person listening. If the same individual who used the term pole muncher thinks of an entire community of people as subhuman deviants--and I certainly hope this individual doesn't think like that, but if he does, then whatever--well that's something very different altogether. Such an attitude can't easily be revealed in a single sentence. If an ongoing pattern of negative behavior is established, well... *shrugs*.

[Lilith]

a person is smart, people are stupid

[Gatefan1976]

Oh I agree. Education is definitely our friend.

With certain individuals, I've seen what is genuinely friendly ribbing. Being described as a "pole muncher" once was pretty funny to me, especially since the term itself was pretty witty.

I have a bi (male) friend that if some of you heard the stuff we say to eachother your hair would stand on end and you would swear I was a terrible hate-filled person. Then again, if push came to shove in RL, there a few other men I would be be happier to stand at the side of or have standing beside me.

I suppose it boils down to intent, which requires discernment and attention of the person listening. If the same individual who used the term pole muncher thinks of an entire community of people as subhuman deviants--and I certainly hope this individual doesn't think like that, but if he does, then whatever--well that's something very different altogether. Such an attitude can't easily be revealed in a single sentence. If an ongoing pattern of negative behavior is established, well... *shrugs*.

Yup, intent, it's ALWAYS intent.

[Gatefan1976]

a person is smart, people are stupid

Agent K, MIB

[Lilith]

I have a bi (male) friend that if some of you heard the stuff we say to eachother your hair would stand on end and you would swear I was a terrible hate-filled person. Then again, if push came to shove in RL, there a few other men I would be be happier to stand at the side of or have standing beside me.

lol... that's like me and my friend roku he's whitest black kid you'll ever meet... a true oreo.... his skin tone even matches oreo cookies! i've actually had ppl stop what they were doing and try to defend him from the "slander" i've thrown at him.... one guy even threatened to call cops if i didn't stop "spewing my racist BS".... we busted out laughing then quietly explained that that was how our relationship worked... he called us weirdos, i growled and snapped at him, and he ran away pretty fast

[Cold Fuzz]

I have a bi (male) friend that if some of you heard the stuff we say to eachother your hair would stand on end and you would swear I was a terrible hate-filled person. Then again, if push came to shove in RL, there a few other men I would be be happier to stand at the side of or have standing beside me.



Yup, intent, it's ALWAYS intent.

See now that's the kind of friendship were you know each other well enough that there's no doubt about each other's intent. It seems there's enough mutual respect where there's not even a question about it. That's what makes your interactions with your bi friend different from what others and I here have encountered who are truly a problem. Just to clarify, believing an entire community of people to be deviants (subhuman or fully human ) is, of course, not a position of mutual respect--at least not from where I'm sitting.

If there's a problem with somebody's intent though, it's about establishing said intent, motive, evidence as proof, etc. Yeah, interacting with law enforcement folks enough has geared me towards that direction of thinking. These things can only be discerned through prolonged interaction.

[Gatefan1976]

lol... that's like me and my friend roku he's whitest black kid you'll ever meet... a true oreo.... his skin tone even matches oreo cookies!

See, as you say, thats enough for some people to be offended, you called a black guy an "oreo"

i've actually had ppl stop what they were doing and try to defend him from the "slander" i've thrown at him.... one guy even threatened to call cops if i didn't stop "spewing my racist BS".... we busted out laughing then quietly explained that that was how our relationship worked... he called us weirdos, i growled and snapped at him, and he ran away pretty fast

You're not wierd, you a just part Aussie
(which could be considered wierd in some circles I guess................ )

[Lilith]

See, as you say, thats enough for some people to be offended, you called a black guy an "oreo"


You're not wierd, you a just part Aussie
(which could be considered wierd in some circles I guess................ )

he calls himself an oreo... besides, the slang refers to a black person with a white personality.... you can't get any whiter than roku.... and the man is so dark he disappears in a unlit room... i've seen this happen at a con... we were in our hotel room, the curtains were drwn, the lights turned off... the only light source was a v v small red light on the tv that proclaimed it in stand-by mode.... he was wearing a white shirt.... that was all we could see of him quite literally, oh and his teeth when he opened his mouth

naw... i don't consider myself human.... i'm an anthropomorph stuck in a fully human body... sometimes i just like to go grr

[Cold Fuzz]

lol... that's like me and my friend roku he's whitest black kid you'll ever meet... a true oreo.... his skin tone even matches oreo cookies! i've actually had ppl stop what they were doing and try to defend him from the "slander" i've thrown at him.... one guy even threatened to call cops if i didn't stop "spewing my racist BS".... we busted out laughing then quietly explained that that was how our relationship worked... he called us weirdos, i growled and snapped at him, and he ran away pretty fast

I've encountered certain blacks where if you were to call them an oreo, there'd be trouble. But you have a that kind of relationship with him and it's perfectly acceptable. I liken it to when Donna Noble calls the Tenth Doctor "space man" and he calls her "Earth girl."

[Starfist]

I just wanted to say I think you're mother must have been a truly remarkable woman. Very few people in my experience are capable of true, unconditional love, especially in the manner she showed to you. My family certainly isn't.

Thank you for kind words about my mother. She was a wonderful woman and fantastic mother. I admit it took me awhile to come 'out' to her. But I think she suspected as it was her clothes I 'borrowed'.
My mother to me was just my mother. I admit I really miss her.
I'm sorry to hear that your family isn't capable of unconditional love. But know this you have friends here.

Sports fans can get ridiculous sometimes. As a fan of the SF Giants, I know better than to show up in a place like Los Angeles wearing a Giants hat. People here have already seen what's happened with Giants fan Brian Stow. (read the final paragraph in the Notorious Incidents section).

I can relate to the hat. We have something similar here in the UK. In a city called Glasgow, in Scotland, they have two teams Celtic and Rangers. You do not wear the rival teams colours in the other teams side of the city. It can lead to riots.
I admit to not hearing about Brian Stow. It makes me glad that I'm not a major sports fan.