NCIS : Discussion, spoilers and everything else ....

[hedwig]

Well I think Tony really cares about Ziva, especially after last night's episode, but he's not sure of her feelings for him, so he falls back on the old playboy thing out of -insecurity? Also, I'm wondering if it's like Sam and Jack, where they can't fraternize as long as they work together? I know with Sam and Jack it was military and Jack was her CO, but is NCIS like that?
As far as the Daddy issue thing-well Ziva sure loves Tony's dad-that's for sure.(future father in law?)

Apparently NCIS doesn't have rules about co-workers dating. In one of the episodes, E.J. Barrett (the blond new team leader) said it to Gibbs when he confronted her about sleeping with Tony.

I was reading through "Gibbs' Rules" and one of them is "never apologize ... it's a sign of weakness". He broke that rule in the episode where they had Kate's funeral. Gibbs was standing over Kate's coffin at the funeral, and he imagined her speaking to him about her death, and he apologized to her. I don't think he's ever apologized for anything aside from that.

[OneillTwo"LL"s]

Apparently NCIS doesn't have rules about co-workers dating. In one of the episodes, E.J. Barrett (the blond new team leader) said it to Gibbs when he confronted her about sleeping with Tony.

But Gibb's has his rules, and on his team, you follow his rules.

Tony knows that, and so does Ziva.

P.S. if Tony and Ziva do "get together" that will be the last season of the show! IMHO

[hedwig]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]
But Gibbs has his rules, and on his team, you follow his rules.

The point was that NCIS itself does not have a rule about co-workers dating.

[Skydiver]

Bellisario is infamous for how he handles male/female relationships in his shows....and not in a good way.

[Skydiver]

What I really liked about the episode

Spoiler:

so everyone apparently knows that ziva is going all jaffa revenge...and they just let her do it, either waiting to see if she'll give it up or if she crosses the line.
But, beyond it all, Vance supports her, if not overtly as in assigning her, covertly. I definitely interpreted his head nod as 'i know where you're going, kill him for me, i got your back'
these last few episodes of this season will be good ones I think.

[hedwig]

Part of an article I discovered about Donald Bellisario. His name is still in the credits. But he hasn't had any creative participation since about 2007.

Bellisario was let go from NCIS in 2007. Shane Brennan took up the reins on the series and created the NCIS: LA series. NCIS is a spin-off of JAG, which was also created by Bellisario

[Skydiver]

Which might be a part of why we got a season 11

[TrueRomantic]

Last nights episode was bloody great....

Spoiler:

I liked the concern from Tony... He maybe a joker, but there is a caring person under there... But I was surprised by the sneakiness of McGee...

Nice bring back of Alan Dale... Didn't know he was cameo'ing in the episode at all..

Spoiler:

Well, I've thought for a very long time that Tony uses the joker as a front. He has always cared, but he doesn't like others knowing that he cares, so he makes jokes and acts like a jerk. IMO, this stems from his school days, especially given that we now know he switched roles in his head about his school time, making himself the bully, when in reality it was he who was bullied. I think that made him become the class clown type of person so that he would "fit in" and so that people wouldn't pick on him. After all, if people think you're just going to make a joke about things and that you don't care at all, they are probably less likely to pick on you.

McGee surprised me as well. I half expected poor McGee to be left out of the loop until after Tony and Ziva returned from their trip, having to make up reasons why they were gone. I kind of like that they did it this way though. It shows how much trust Ziva has in McGee, but it also shows her trust in Tony because she didn't fight it at all when Gibbs said to take Tony with her.

Well I think Tony really cares about Ziva, especially after last night's episode, but he's not sure of her feelings for him, so he falls back on the old playboy thing out of -insecurity? Also, I'm wondering if it's like Sam and Jack, where they can't fraternize as long as they work together? I know with Sam and Jack it was military and Jack was her CO, but is NCIS like that?
As far as the Daddy issue thing-well Ziva sure loves Tony's dad-that's for sure.(future father in law?)

As a few people have already said, there is no official NCIS rule, but there is a Gibbs rule about dating. Technically, Gibbs' rule is "never date a coworker" which is why many people say he didn't officially say anything about McGee/Abby and Tony/EJ (Because, while the people in question did work together, they weren't coworkers in the sense that they worked together in and out every day. Unlike Tony/Ziva now and Gibbs/Jenny in the past, where they work closely with each other and have to depend on each other to watch each other's backs).

Well, your statement is essentially preaching to the choir on the Tony/Ziva relationship with me lol!! I've been shipping them since season 3, and defending the two characters and the relationship for just as long.

And I disagree; he's as clear about her feelings for him as she is his feelings for her. I could point out quite a few reasons that I feel this way, but I'll just say a few. In S6, Tony told Ziva that her eyes never shut up. To me, this says that he can usually tell what she's thinking/feeling through her eyes. In S7 he told her he could live without her, which, while she might have taken it as platonic or a joke, she knows he at least meant it in some way. In S10 he told her "At lo levad" which means "You are not alone" to remind her he (and the others) would be there for her. They have also been sharing some of the most important things to them with each other this season (his mom movie memories, her Tali opera memories) as the "post elevator them." So IMO, they both are very clear that there is something between them, and that it is more than platonic. I think the only thing they are unclear on is where the other stands on officially altering their relationship and whether they want to break Gibbs' rules.

Apparently NCIS doesn't have rules about co-workers dating. In one of the episodes, E.J. Barrett (the blond new team leader) said it to Gibbs when he confronted her about sleeping with Tony.

I was reading through "Gibbs' Rules" and one of them is "never apologize ... it's a sign of weakness". He broke that rule in the episode where they had Kate's funeral. Gibbs was standing over Kate's coffin at the funeral, and he imagined her speaking to him about her death, and he apologized to her. I don't think he's ever apologized for anything aside from that.

Yes, he does have that rule, but he also has Rule 51: Sometimes you're wrong. To me, this is, among other things, sort of an unofficial loophole to all his rules, including, and possibly most especially (IMO), Rule 12. I think Rule 51 is his way of pre-apologizing for things, as well as unofficially granting permission to break the other 50 rules. Especially because, as far as I can remember, Gibbs hasn't actually shared Rule 51 with the team. To me that means that he's only going to trot it out if it becomes necessary and he needs to grant after action approval for his other rules being broken. I think Rule 18: It's better to seek forgiveness than to ask permission, is also a bit of a loophole rule. It essentially gives permission to break the rules if you think it's necessary.

But Gibb's has his rules, and on his team, you follow his rules.

Tony knows that, and so does Ziva.

P.S. if Tony and Ziva do "get together" that will be the last season of the show! IMHO

See my reasons and thinkings about Rule 51 in regards to "his team, follow his rules" lol.

Also, I disagree about them being in a relationship being the last season. I think it's likely to happen this season or next season. I don't think the writers will wait until the last season to do a relationship, nor do I think a relationship between Tony and Ziva will equal the end of the series. I think the writers will be able to successfully have a Tony/Ziva relationship without sacrificing anything else from the series.

Bellisario is infamous for how he handles male/female relationships in his shows....and not in a good way.

Yes, but Bellisario isn't technically in charge of NCIS anymore. From everything I've read, he was kicked off the show before the creation of NCIS: LA, and only retains ownership rights. I don't believe he has any say in the show any more, aside from being the original creator and executive producer. To that effect, Shane Brennan isn't really involved with the show anymore either, since he's so busy with LA. That's why Gary Glasberg is now pretty much in charge (and IMO the show has improved exponentially for every episode that Glasberg has been in charge of after Brennan started with LA). Glasberg is into creating more character driven episodes that focus on character growth and continutity. If you notice, the last couple seasons have have not only been more character driven, but have also had more continuity with each other. They also have taken us back to more things from earlier in the season. That's all Glasberg, not Bellisario or Brennan. I think Glasberg lets no previous part be worthless, and we've seen him take us back to things that were said several season ago.

What I really liked about the episode

Spoiler:

so everyone apparently knows that ziva is going all jaffa revenge...and they just let her do it, either waiting to see if she'll give it up or if she crosses the line.
But, beyond it all, Vance supports her, if not overtly as in assigning her, covertly. I definitely interpreted his head nod as 'i know where you're going, kill him for me, i got your back'
these last few episodes of this season will be good ones I think.

I so agree with all of that, especially your interpretation of Vance. I also think the rest of the season is going to be filled with good ones, and I can't wait lol!!


EDIT: I started this post directly after Sky posted the last thing I quoted, which is why hedwig popped up with that news and then I said it anyway lol. So I'm leaving it because I like to be able to tell myself I said it first, even if it got posted before I finished my giant multiquote post lol!!!

[Skydiver]

ziva and tony are so complicated. She's went to the mat for him, he went all jaffa revenge when he thought she was dead (they went to that prison to avenge her and get the bad guy, not rescue her, finding her alive was a bonus)

there's a lot of tony there for ziva, ziva there for tony.

McGee grew up a lot then. He's no longer the naive little probie but someone that can take care of himself.

[hedwig]

McGee grew up a lot then. He's no longer the naive little probie but someone that can take care of himself.

He better be after 10 years!

[hedwig]

EDIT: I started this post directly after Sky posted the last thing I quoted, which is why hedwig popped up with that news and then I said it anyway lol. So I'm leaving it because I like to be able to tell myself I said it first, even if it got posted before I finished my giant multiquote post lol!!!

Actually, my post had nothing at all to do with yours. I had that information from a long time ago, and found it appropriate to post it. Also, I didn't realize there was a race going on to see who could post first.

[TrueRomantic]

ziva and tony are so complicated. She's went to the mat for him, he went all jaffa revenge when he thought she was dead (they went to that prison to avenge her and get the bad guy, not rescue her, finding her alive was a bonus)

there's a lot of tony there for ziva, ziva there for tony.

THANK YOU!!!!! I get so tired of reading about how they went on a "rescue mission" for Ziva. It wasn't. It was a revenge mission. And, I think, a possible suicide mission for Tony, which is why McGee and Gibbs made sure to go with him to make sure he came back alive. I get soooooooooo tired of correcting people and there are only so many creative ways to say "They didn't go there to save Ziva. They went to kill the man responsible for her death, and maybe bring back a body to give a proper burial." before I want to start tossing curse words into the statement lol!!

I agree, they are complicated, but I love it lol. I think, in a lot of ways, there are very much alike. Which is why I think there is so much push/pull between the two of them in regards to their relationship. They want to trust each other, but history shows them that people they trust betray them. And they recognize that the other has always gone to bat for them, but they still have that nagging voice telling them not to trust completely. And I think that is also why they are so great together, both as partners and as partners. Once they fight past that automatic defense mechanism of pushing each other away, they can understand each other better than almost anyone else. And I think they will be able to help each other come back from the ledge, so to speak, when they start to try to build walls back up again because they fear the relationship.

McGee grew up a lot then. He's no longer the naive little probie but someone that can take care of himself.

He better be after 10 years!

I agree that McGee has grown up a lot and is much less naive, but I think, in a lot of ways, he is always going to be very naive. Especially when compared to Tony and Ziva. He may not have had such a fantastic life growing up, but he managed to grow up into a relatively trusting guy who isn't afraid to get close to people. Ziva and Tony never learned to trust or get close, because every time they did, they were betrayed/disappointed. So I think, at least when compared to them, Tim will be a toddler in his naivete. Of course, when compared to people in general, he is probably a hard, rock solid, no bulls*it guy lol.

Actually, my post had nothing at all to do with yours. I had that information from a long time ago, and found it appropriate to post it. Also, I didn't realize there was a race going on to see who could post first.

I didn't mean your post had anything to do with mine, I meant that I was responding again with information you provided because I'd already started typing it lol. We were responding to the same thing, you just hit "submit" before I did.

You didn't? Really? It's always a race to see who can post first! Didn't you learn that on the S/J thread lol?! Besides, I just like being right, and I don't always care if I'm repeating what's already been said. Like my mother says when she tells me stuff she's already told me or that I already know, "The words were in my head, so they have to come out. Doesn't matter if it's already been said, just that I get to say it and get it out of my head."

[hedwig]

You didn't? Really? It's always a race to see who can post first! Didn't you learn that on the S/J thread lol?! Besides, I just like being right, and I don't always care if I'm repeating what's already been said. Like my mother says when she tells me stuff she's already told me or that I already know, "The words were in my head, so they have to come out. Doesn't matter if it's already been said, just that I get to say it and get it out of my head."

To tell you the truth, I hate competitions. So I don't compete for anything.

[TrueRomantic]

To tell you the truth, I hate competitions. So I don't compete for anything.

I really hadn't meant it as a competition lol, I was just joking. In most ways I don't like competition, but in some cases I do like it. It just depends on the situation. And friendly competition is very different from competition for competion's sake.

[Skydiver]

In the past, I'd see them shield mcgee. Tony and Ziva would do the dangerous stuff, mcgee stayed where it was safe. That changed on the revenge mission and then he and tony got captured and tortured and....mcgee handled it. (probably better than some cause both of them knew gibbs had their back, they weren't alone as much as they were the bait to find the bad guy)

But I have noticed him standing up to them more and more lately, and also seems to be pretty able to keep a secret too.

I think that's why that other character has shown up occasionally

Spoiler:

Dornegett, he's their new 'innocent dude to ask the questions' character

I read some articles online about the end of this season

Spoiler:

no real spoilers, just that this week's was the start of the end of the season arc, which is probably something we all figured out