Okay, so a tank won't fit through a Stargate, but...

[hank]

i was watching black hawk down again recently so what about those mini helicopters. Then could fit easy and could provide good air support against ground based enemies.

although probably a pain to bring it into the gate room

[Bobby]

i just have to say why would we have to fit things through the stargate when we have 304's with beaming technology...we could just beam whateva we wanted into their storage hold and then beam it down to the planet.

[Flyboy]

one other quick thought, maybe not an Abrams, but a striker would, also the picture of the global hawk(or predator?) loaded for bear was bad to the ___ (insert whatever term you like)

It was a Reaper, formerly known as the Predator II.

I'm pretty sure being are being a little over confident regarding the size of the gate. It would be a major squeeze to get anything through, look at the gate. Four people can walk through it by going up a ramp and that fills up the entire gate. It's also round which makes things more difficult. Tanks and Humvees are big beasties. If you can solve the width problem, I doubt you'll solve the height problem. The other issue is, sure you can get em through the gate, but getting them back to our side, the gateroom is going to fill up remarkably quickly.

If you must put some kind of armoured attack vehicle into the field then beaming down from 304s is indeed the best bet. But I still assert that such a weapon is indeed absolutely unnessecary. We cannot think of the SG teams as regular Army units operate, they are more like commando units which generally operate independently from large batallion support. And extra firepower received in the real world is usually airborne in origin, so I see no reason not to keep it the same here. 302s providing close air support should by now be an integral part of operations.

I only ever want to see tanks in SG if every single bloody SG team is on a planet acting as batallion, not a commando unit and attempting to seize territory from a hostile enemy.


As for the mini helicopters, do you have a name for them? So I can put what you're saying into context? I know for certain they wouldn't go through whilst operational. And in this situation, I believe helicopters are of little use. Rotary air craft are good for two things: Troop transport, and air to ground attack.

The former has severe limitations During Vietnam, Special Forces would use helicopters for insertion and very quickly the Viet Kong cottoned on to "chopper noise = US SF" and gained the upper hand quite quickly. The same would happen here, you may as well beam in. If you don't care about remaining covert, helicopters can work fine, but are also easily shot down. If you want long distance transport, helicopters are ideal, particularly if you're not going directly into the combat zone, you'd want Chinooks for this kind of thing. And they're being and vulnerable.

In an attack capacity, rotary aircraft such as the Apache in fact almost act like floating tanks. They are most effectively used in a brigade scale assault upon a single location, assisting with advancing infantry and tank forces to gain ground and destroy enemy combatants in the path. As I've mentioned before, this is not something the SG teams engaged in, and thus I view the role of the attack helicopter to be somewhat limited in the gateverse. Furthermore, helicopters are still quite vulnerable to attack, and with the hi-tech weaponry in use here, it could be suicide to use them.

So they've used an armed UAV once. They really should be used for. But again, I'm going to assert once more than 302s are the best method of providing safe and effective support to SG teams in combat.

As for Nuke. No. No way in hell. Nukes are NOT a weapon of war. They're a weapon of God damn destruction. I'm with Mitchell on the fact that detonating a nuke in "combat" is not something I'd want on my record. Nukes are atrocious. Necessary in today's world for so many reasons. But the unparalled destruction to innocent life caused by them is unacceptable. They give little strategic or tactical advantage, they just blow an enemy to hell. It might be acceptable to put a nuke on a wraith ship, but just sending a nuke through the gate, well... it's just not cricket.

[suicidal_tool]

How about a Gekko?? Small enough to fit through a gate and beastly enough to scare the bejesus out of anything in Pegasus or the Milky way!

[Kebab Gud]

i was watching black hawk down again recently so what about those mini helicopters. Then could fit easy and could provide good air support against ground based enemies.

although probably a pain to bring it into the gate room

The Little Bird?
ohh easily.. only need to pack up the rotor for the trip through the gate.. and its ready to go

[The6thRace]

They definitely should of sent at least 2 jumpers to the SGC when they were fighting the Ori. At that time Earth was losing a lot of ships and was vulnerable to attack. We've seen a jumper take out a Goa'uld Hattak class ship with just a couple of drones. So even a couple of jumpers would have helped out tremendously with the Lucian Alliance forces.

Not to mention the cloaking abilities of the jumper, which would have a ton of practical applications for the SGC. You don't have to keep them at the SGC though, you could keep them at the Alpha site and send teams there to use them. Same goes for any larger vehicles, keep them at the alpha site which has the potential for a lot more open space since it doesn't have to be secretly buried in a mountain.

Because of the drones, 1 jumper is potentially more powerful than a huge Goa'uld mothership. I don't see why they didn't use this advantage at all, and the only plausible explanation is unfortunately something that can only be explained by the fact that they are two different shows that must be kept unique.

This also goes along with one of my earlier posts of the SGC not taking full advantage of technologies. Like the asgard time dilation device, which could be used in a sort of training facility to train people in a fraction of time as it would normally take. Some technologies just break the Taur'ii though and make them way too powerful.

[Flyboy]

They definitely should of sent at least 2 jumpers to the SGC when they were fighting the Ori. At that time Earth was losing a lot of ships and was vulnerable to attack. We've seen a jumper take out a Goa'uld Hattak class ship with just a couple of drones. So even a couple of jumpers would have helped out tremendously with the Lucian Alliance forces.

Not to mention the cloaking abilities of the jumper, which would have a ton of practical applications for the SGC. You don't have to keep them at the SGC though, you could keep them at the Alpha site and send teams there to use them. Same goes for any larger vehicles, keep them at the alpha site which has the potential for a lot more open space since it doesn't have to be secretly buried in a mountain.

Because of the drones, 1 jumper is potentially more powerful than a huge Goa'uld mothership. I don't see why they didn't use this advantage at all, and the only plausible explanation is unfortunately something that can only be explained by the fact that they are two different shows that must be kept unique.

This also goes along with one of my earlier posts of the SGC not taking full advantage of technologies. Like the asgard time dilation device, which could be used in a sort of training facility to train people in a fraction of time as it would normally take. Some technologies just break the Taur'ii though and make them way too powerful.

This is why after S8, SG1 and SGA should not have run concurrently, because any advancements in tech feel like they ruin the style of show SG1 is (which happened anyway), and not advancing in tech (ie not taking advantage of all that lovely ancient technology in the lost city) makes us think "why arent they using Jumpers fcol!?"

Basically, SG1's identity doesn't allow for Jumper usage.

[Rudy Pena]

True, I've always wondered why they didn't go through in Humvees or somthing. A tank is rather pointless, maybe a humvee Avenger AA, or like was said a Stryker. And yes, in more than one episode I'm pretty sure they used UCAVs, Death Knell being the only one I can remember. What we need is a 302 with folding wings !!! Then itll roll through the gate, unfold and fly off. Or ship some jumpers to Earth. Since earth really has no enemies now, as of continuum, ship some humvees or strykers to atlantis. They could be winched down into gateroom from the jumper bay. Just some ideas. Or make a new fighter, based on the Wraith Dart, that is designed to fly through gates. Something the size and shape of an F16, made spaceworthy, and the wings chopped down, and there you go. Also every SG Team but SG-1 wears helmets when not going undercover, at least in early seasons. Recently they don't, but they always used to. As for not being used on atlantis, that makes no sense.

I am guessing by that that you dont know what a Avenger is.

[Agent_Dark]

"Sentry, goin' up!"

[AnotherEvilAlien]

This is why after S8, SG1 and SGA should not have run concurrently, because any advancements in tech feel like they ruin the style of show SG1 is (which happened anyway), and not advancing in tech (ie not taking advantage of all that lovely ancient technology in the lost city) makes us think "why arent they using Jumpers fcol!?"

I'm still wondering why, with all the ridiculously extensive records the Ancients kept, that why there wasn't a howtomakeazpm.txt in the database.

I know... it'd be too easy. We'd no longer be able to shove our heroes off into a danagerous and foreign place to get what they need.

What they should've done in S1 of Atlantis was said, "The ancients wiped it [the database] clean, almost. All that's left is gate addresses, ect."

[Kebab Gud]

I am guessing by that that you dont know what a Avenger is.

Given that most of the Enemies use flying stuff i see no problem with deploying M1097 Avenger's (Ok so it has a rather limited range for its missiles..)

[Rudy Pena]

Given that most of the Enemies use flying stuff i see no problem with deploying M1097 Avenger's (Ok so it has a rather limited range for its missiles..)

And its only good for eight missiles, then both of the Gunner and the Team Chief have to both get out and reload while under fire. It take at least 5 minutes to unload and then reload, and Stinger missiles lock on to heat. So its kinda hard getting a lock on to a Death Gilder or a Dart. Plus the Avenger is kinda outdated and starting to die out and in a about 5 years(I think), the US Military is going to replace the Avenger with something else. Also it is really the US Army that uses it and I havent seen a Army SG team yet. And one Avenger wont do any good, as the way Avengers work you need more than one, just for one Battle. As Avengers kinda work together(at least on book) with them being 40ks(about) away from each other Also I think you dont know a lot about the Avenger, only if you knew the Avenger as good as the people who use them, it would not be good to use them in battles in SG1 or SGA as they would be kinda useless in those kinda battles.

[Flyboy]

And its only good for eight missiles, then both of the Gunner and the Team Chief have to both get out and reload while under fire. It take at least 5 minutes to unload and then reload, and Stinger missiles lock on to heat. So its kinda hard getting a lock on to a Death Gilder or a Dart. Plus the Avenger is kinda outdated and starting to die out and in a about 5 years(I think), the US Military is going to replace the Avenger with something else. Also it is really the US Army that uses it and I havent seen a Army SG team yet. And one Avenger wont do any good, as the way Avengers work you need more than one, just for one Battle. As Avengers kinda work together(at least on book) with them being 40ks(about) away from each other Also I think you dont know a lot about the Avenger, only if you knew the Avenger as good as the people who use them, it would not be good to use them in battles in SG1 or SGA as they would be kinda useless in those kinda battles.

The Avenger would certainly be relevant to airborne threats, although I expect it would suffer considerably due to it's bulk and lack of mobility. I would suggest it would be more suited to the defence of a facility, as opposed to in support of an SG team's operations in the field or in seizing ground. For a similar role though, the Rapier may be relevant for mounting an effective air defence of the Alpha (or other) site. It doesn't exactly solve the need for support of an SG team when under fire, other than perhaps if they were stationed by the gate for withdrawel. In this instance, due to its size, I'd say the Rapier would be more useful than the Avenger.

To reiterate my previous arguments. Airborne weaponry is by the most effective method of delivering combat support to any SG team.

[Rudy Pena]

The Avenger would certainly be relevant to airborne threats, although I expect it would suffer considerably due to it's bulk and lack of mobility. I would suggest it would be more suited to the defence of a facility, as opposed to in support of an SG team's operations in the field or in seizing ground. For a similar role though, the Rapier may be relevant for mounting an effective air defence of the Alpha (or other) site. It doesn't exactly solve the need for support of an SG team when under fire, other than perhaps if they were stationed by the gate for withdrawel. In this instance, due to its size, I'd say the Rapier would be more useful than the Avenger.

To reiterate my previous arguments. Airborne weaponry is by the most effective method of delivering combat support to any SG team.

Well not really because it takes about a 45 seconds to a minute to shoot down one aircraft thats in fight and by the time the first missile is shot, your AO is going to be shot up. The Avenger is a lightweight,limited adverse weather Air Defense Weapon System used to counter the threat of lowaltitude, highspeed, fixed or rotary wing aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles(UAVs). Now the Avenger is only effective when aircraft are below 2 thousand feet(about) and that are at least a couple Ks out. Aircarfts in SG would be over and attack the facility and would take out the avenger right after, if not before the first missile is fired.

[Flyboy]

Well not really because it takes about a 45 to a minute to shoot down one aircraft thats in fight and by the time the first missile is shot, your AO is going to be shot up. The Avenger is a lightweight,limited adverse weather Air Defense Weapon System used to counter the threat of lowaltitude, highspeed, fixed or rotary wing aircraft and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles(UAVs). Now the Avenger is only effective when aircraft are below 2 thousand feet(about) and that are at least a couple Ks out. Aircarfts in SG would be over and attack the facility and would take out the avenger right after, if not before the first missile is fired.

I must admit that I'm much more familiar with British military tech, so forgive me for any mistakes here, but the air offensive mounted by the goa'uld in "Full Circle" appeared to be pretty low altitude, I would estimate way below 2000ft agl, now if as you said it is capable of eliminating high speed threats, I fail to see why certain goa'uld vessels would present a problem. The 45 minute issue appears to be a bit of a problem, and for the reasons I've already stated, that actually surprises me. Is that including missile flight time or time to aquire a target?

The very reasons you suggest appear to argue it's redundancy in general, not just in the gate-verse. And with all it's faults, the only role I could see it having a use for in the gateverse is defence of a fixed facility, which is what I was suggesting.