Stargate and Nudity

[Falcon Horus]

You're funny, Gelasius, cause you sorta go by double standards if this is your code...

I don't watch shows that have excessive cussing. In fact i wish all shows didn't have cussing in them at all but in this world its impossible.

Okay... and then you continue with this...

Not all violence is bad, when you have an understanding adult that can comprehend the struggle between Good and Evil violence can be justified.

What is good violence exactly? Or evil violence for that matter?

In that same way... What is qualified as tasteful nudity and what is not? I understand different cultures/religions/countries have different standards so it's interesting to see how we all look at it.

I watch shows that have violence but if its too gorey i won't watch it...

When does it become too gorey in your opinion?

...i know for certain i have a code of ethics to follow, and if it doesn't fall in line with my beliefs i won't watch it.

And with that you practically accuse everybody else of having no ethics.

[SG66]

People now days don't have any shame anymore, if you don't see anything wrong with pornography you obviously have moral issues. A good solid human being knows and understand and practices moral maturity. I don't watch pornography. I don't watch shows that have excessive cussing. In fact i wish all shows didn't have cussing in them at all but in this world its impossible. Not all violence is bad, when you have an understanding adult that can comprehend the struggle between Good and Evil violence can be justified. I watch shows that have violence but if its too gorey i won't watch it, there's plenty of ways to make a show/movie that gets the point across to the viewer how bad the situation is. this is my beliefs, you definitely have the right to watch what you want, and do what you want but i know for certain i have a code of ethics to follow, and if it doesn't fall in line with my beliefs i won't watch it.


Gelasius

not to sound mean, but it seems like your trying to ake yourself sound better then everyone else. FYI: people hate that.

i watch porn, i drink, and i cuss. not in excess mind you, but occasionslly. does that make me a bad person? that despite thesesmall character flaws i am a somewhat good person, i don't steal, i don't beat people unless they've earned it, i don't commit murder and do drugs.

as for good morals, what really constitues good morals? because someone said so? not good enough for me.

[Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper]

But it was and as such I do not believe it can be ignored, which in my honest opinion you try implying here.

Wow, fast response! No I wasn't implying we should ignore it. What I'm saying is that the scene in question did nothing for the story. It was totally gratuitous. If they'd shot it with the subject fully or partly clothed no one afterward would likely have sat back and said, "gee if they'd only shot it with her fully nude it would made the story so much better."

That's not to say the nudity isn't sometimes appropriate. For example, in "The Bounty" (starring Anthony Hopkins & Mel Gibson) the Tahitians are portrayed topless because that's the way it really was in that culture at that time.

As for the violence, that's somewhat necessary to the whole Stargate storyline. We can't have SG-1 and the Goa'uld resolve their disputes by agreeing to a coin toss. (Heads we get the planet, tails you get it.) The violence in SG-1 is NOT gratuitous! The sad fact is, that as bad as violence is, it is often necessary in a self-defense situation. During WWII it was necessary to counter Hitler's violence with violence. If we hadn't we'd all be living under Nazi rule.

[SG66]

Wow, fast response! No I wasn't implying we should ignore it. What I'm saying is that the scene in question did nothing for the story. It was totally gratuitous. If they'd shot it with the subject fully or partly clothed no one afterward would likely have sat back and said, "gee if they'd only shot it with her fully nude it would made the story so much better."

That's not to say the nudity isn't sometimes appropriate. For example, in "The Bounty" (starring Anthony Hopkins & Mel Gibson) the Tahitians are portrayed topless because that's the way it really was in that culture at that time.

As for the violence, that's somewhat necessary to the whole Stargate storyline. We can't have SG-1 and the Goa'uld resolve their disputes by agreeing to a coin toss. (Heads we get the planet, tails you get it.) The violence in SG-1 is NOT gratuitous! The sad fact is, that as bad as violence is, it is often necessary in a self-defense situation. During WWII it was necessary to counter Hitler's violence with violence. If we hadn't we'd all be living under Nazi rule.

very true, i think that the nudity wasn't really required, but that showtime wanted an excuse to add a "N" rated to the show to gather viewrs, and to show off sha'raes great body. it was mearly for a small ratings boost, nothing more.

[Falcon Horus]

Wow, fast response!

Thank you.

No I wasn't implying we should ignore it. What I'm saying is that the scene in question did nothing for the story. It was totally gratuitous. If they'd shot it with the subject fully or partly clothed no one afterward would likely have sat back and said, "gee if they'd only shot it with her fully nude it would made the story so much better."

Good point.

We can't have SG-1 and the Goa'uld resolve their disputes by agreeing to a coin toss. (Heads we get the planet, tails you get it.)

Aw, why not... ...That requires a manip.

[Reiko]

.: I think how people feel about nudity in television and general media is directly influenced by background and culture. Different societies see nudity differently; it is common knowledge in many places in the middle east women have to cover their full body while in tribal cultures people practically wander about their daily life in the buff. The parents/guardians that also raise you greatly influence how you percieve what is "appropriate" nudity and what is not. (FYI - I'm talking nudity here, not porn, which is a whole different thing)

.: I'm not offended by the human body. That said, I don't mind tasteful nudity - that is, it it there for a purpose, to imply something, not just to grab the 18-42 male demo. Admittedly I have not seen the full version of COTG but from what I have read and heard the nudity in that episode was really not sexual in any manner (If you factor out the horny Showtime execs), and I don't know if it was necessary or not though.

.: Just my 2c

[Major Clanger]

People now days don't have any shame anymore, if you don't see anything wrong with pornography you obviously have moral issues. A good solid human being knows and understand and practices moral maturity. I don't watch pornography. I don't watch shows that have excessive cussing. In fact i wish all shows didn't have cussing in them at all but in this world its impossible. Not all violence is bad, when you have an understanding adult that can comprehend the struggle between Good and Evil violence can be justified. I watch shows that have violence but if its too gorey i won't watch it, there's plenty of ways to make a show/movie that gets the point across to the viewer how bad the situation is. this is my beliefs, you definitely have the right to watch what you want, and do what you want but i know for certain i have a code of ethics to follow, and if it doesn't fall in line with my beliefs i won't watch it.


Gelasius

We're not actually discussing pornography here, though, are we? We are discussing one or two scenes which show the naked human body.

Now I'm in two minds about the full-frontal in COTG. I caught a glimpse of Interview With a Vampire (yes! awful) Which also contained a similar sort of scene. The point is that when you are naked and everyone else is clothed it more than emphasises your vulnarability. In the case of COTG it points out that humans are vulnerable against the Goa'uld and there isn't much we can do about it.

(on a personal level: I don't see the need for it, and since I don't have the DVD I don't have to see it. I wouldn't have stopped the Gruesome Twosome from watching it because of that one scene though)

On to cussing - well, I don't think that Stargate has a lot of that. But then, it is a personal threshold isn't it? I absolutely adore Gordon Ramsay, but oh my even for an old soldier like me he overuses the F-word. However, I am well aware of why he does it, and the fact that he uses it so much actually robs it of all its shock power and leads me to thing it's a reflex thing, much as some people sniff too much. Context is everything. He doesn't do it in front of his kids, and I'd bet he wouldn't do it in front of mine.

A well-placed fruity swear word can have a great effect. Other times (yes, Torchwood, I'm looking at you) it is overused and loses its impact.

Horses for courses I think.

I worry more about the attitude to violence. I gather from your language that you're in the States? It's like I outlined above, in the States violence seems to be a lot more acceptable than a nipple. I wonder why that is? I'd prefer a lot less violence. I'd prefer a lot less boobs in German margerine adds too (but accept that boobs sell so what to do?)

When I watch film or TV what I want is for actions and words to have some meaning and relevance. Totally irrelevant over the top violence or sex puts me right off. And thankfully most TV shows and films that I watch fit my criteria. Occasionally they're a bit off, but I accept that sex and violence sometimes sell and if the rest of the show/film is worth it, I can put up with it.

Womble... i wouldn't describe Germany's attitude as warped but it is a bit boring to be confronted by boobs everywhere. I haven't noticed a dearth of guns and stuff in the toyshops. In fact I'm famous at the Gruesomes' school for giving #1 Gruesome's class a lecture during Karneval after one too many Cowboys pointed a toy gun at me. That's something I don't put up with.

[SG66]

i have not saying that nudity should be glorified. i beleive that if nudity should be allowd if its in a tastyful context and is has something to do with the story. as for sex, it depends on the show. for stargate, i do not want to see the charqcters have sex, but if its implied thats ok.

[Atlantis1]

not to sound mean, but it seems like your trying to ake yourself sound better then everyone else. FYI: people hate that.

i watch porn, i drink, and i cuss. not in excess mind you, but occasionslly. does that make me a bad person? that despite thesesmall character flaws i am a somewhat good person, i don't steal, i don't beat people unless they've earned it, i don't commit murder and do drugs.

as for good morals, what really constitues good morals? because someone said so? not good enough for me.

Anyone can call me prudish but I agree with Gelasius. Maybe some people have morals like you but there is nothing wrong with clean morals. I don't drink, cuss, watch porn or anything of the sorts. I have to live with myself and how I approach life. People like us are not trying to seem better then others, we are living life as we see to be right.

[SG66]

We're not actually discussing pornography here, though, are we? We are discussing one or two scenes which show the naked human body.

Now I'm in two minds about the full-frontal in COTG. I caught a glimpse of Interview With a Vampire (yes! awful) Which also contained a similar sort of scene. The point is that when you are naked and everyone else is clothed it more than emphasises your vulnarability. In the case of COTG it points out that humans are vulnerable against the Goa'uld and there isn't much we can do about it.

when its put into that contex, i can see how it would be allowed. the goa'uld were subjagating the humans, and sha're not allowed to wear cloths and forced into an "inspection" is nt just showing vulnerability, but showing the complete power that the goa'uld have and how humans couldn't fight back.

though i agree, in terms of stargate, nudity just dosn't quite belong.

I worry more about the attitude to violence. I gather from your language that you're in the States? It's like I outlined above, in the States violence seems to be a lot more acceptable than a nipple. I wonder why that is? I'd prefer a lot less violence. I'd prefer a lot less boobs in German margerine adds too (but accept that boobs sell so what to do?)

i'm an american and even i don't completely understand my society. i guess that means we are pretty screwed up lol.

Womble... i wouldn't describe Germany's attitude as warped but it is a bit boring to be confronted by boobs everywhere. I haven't noticed a dearth of guns and stuff in the toyshops. In fact I'm famous at the Gruesomes' school for giving #1 Gruesome's class a lecture during Karneval after one too many Cowboys pointed a toy gun at me. That's something I don't put up with.

i lived in germany for 8 years as a child, and i remember how the germans didn't really care about nudity. its a cultural things, i think that the germans, and other cultures see nudity as part of nature, its there, we are all born naked, so why should we waste time trying to act shamed and hide it.

[SG66]

Anyone can call me prudish but I agree with Gelasius. Maybe some people have morals like you but there is nothing wrong with clean morals. I don't drink, cuss, watch porn or anything of the sorts. I have to live with myself and how I approach life. People like us are not trying to seem better then others, we are living life as we see to be right.

my words might have been interpreted wrong.

i wasn't attacking the mans morals, i was simply saying that the way he sounded in his paticular post made hi sound better then everyone else. i don't care if people follow different morals or not, its a lifestyle choice, and i respect different lifestyles in life, i just don't like it when peple try to sound better then others.

i hope that clear up some confusion.

[nx01a]

I rewatched the original Stargate movie the other night for the first time since I saw it in the cinema and, for some reason, I remembered it being more violent. One curse word got it a pg-13 rating, just like ST: Generations. As for HBO, they're known for their sexy shows, so it's no surprise they sexed up Stargate for SG-1. Sha're's nude scene in the movie was from the back [so to speak] while SG-1's was a full frontal. That's R-rated, right?

Violence is one thing, but I remember reading a comment from tptb about not showing people getting shot in the head in the show. I'd rather not see people's heads explode, but that's just me. I believe their argument was about the type of violence shown and its age appropriateness. I'm also not of the opinion that nudity or overly sexual situations have any place in Stargate. When Jack and Sam finally get down to it, I'd rather see them kiss, not her mammaries. Stargate's just not that kind of show.

Spoiler:

On a slightly tangential note, I thought it might be interesting and believable for her race to see Teyla breast feeding [if the kid survives], but now I'm not so sure.

[Reiko]

.: There's also a double standard for male and female nudity like somebody previously mentioned. Take it if you see the full backside of a female versus the full backside of a male. (I'm talking about the posterior region if you didn't catch that). If the posterior of a male is shown, it's usually (though definately not all the time) comedic. If the posterior of a female, on the other hand, is shown, it is almost always assumed to be sexual.

.: With all you guys saying "nudity FTW!" and that you don't mind it or like it, I'm still completely baffled at why guys are still so afraid of Hewlett's rear in ADB. Double standard again, I geuss.

[~Dave]

Is there anything specifically wrong with not showing nudity in a TV series, if the producers, and cast choose not to? Or is it required if those who want to see it can not?

~Dave

[SylvreWolfe]

People now days don't have any shame anymore, if you don't see anything wrong with pornography you obviously have moral issues. A good solid human being knows and understand and practices moral maturity. I don't watch pornography. I don't watch shows that have excessive cussing. In fact i wish all shows didn't have cussing in them at all but in this world its impossible. Not all violence is bad, when you have an understanding adult that can comprehend the struggle between Good and Evil violence can be justified. I watch shows that have violence but if its too gorey i won't watch it, there's plenty of ways to make a show/movie that gets the point across to the viewer how bad the situation is. this is my beliefs, you definitely have the right to watch what you want, and do what you want but i know for certain i have a code of ethics to follow, and if it doesn't fall in line with my beliefs i won't watch it.


Gelasius

You just touched on the issue I know I have issues with and how I interpreted the OP.
You say violence is ok, but nudity is not. How is violence any better for a family show than nudity? How is that less moral than nudity?