SG-1 is not taking over Atlantis!

[Alipeeps]

You seem to be missing the point of your own topic here:

Bringing Daniel over to Atlantis for *even one episode* in Season 4 (as that is what we area talking about as all other seasons are already filmed and done with) would, for many people, feel like too much SG1 interference in SGA because Season 4 will already have a major SG1 character in the form of Carter in it for over half of the series!!

How many other ways can people make this point? You cannot separate the issue of Carter being in the show from the issue of Daniel's possible appearance in the show and the perception of SG1 intrusion into the show. You cannot posit the inclusion of Daniel into *even one episode* of Season 4 without setting that concept against the background of the FACT that there will already be a heavy SG1 presence in Season 4 in the form of Carter.

Also, consider this... Michael Dorn played "Worf" for all 7 years of Star Trek: The Next Generation, the final two years overlapping the first two years of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. The Ent-D visted DS9 in DS9's first episode with Picard as the special guest star. Then in TNG's final season (DS9's 2nd season), the Ent-D visited DS9 again with DS9's Dr. Bashir as a special guest star. Worf visited the space station durng this episode. After TNG ended, DS9 continued for a 3rd season. At the start of DS9's 4th season, Michael Dorn joined the main cast as "Worf," upping the main cast from 8 to 9, a cast much larger than that of SG:A. Further, Worf was the chief of security on TNG. Odo is the chief of security on DS9. Whut does Worf do on DS9? He's called the "chief of strategic opperations" on the show. Did Worf take away from the rest of the cast? No. Did Worf take away from Odo? No.

This is exactly the same situation Stargate is in, but Atlantis is better off than DS9 was. Worf was on DS9 as a main character, meaning every episode or nearly every episode and stayed on the show until it ended. Carter will simply be a recurring character for about 3/4 of the season. Since she is a recurring character, that means she doesn't necessarily have to return for Season 5 (assuming there is one).

Personally, I'm not worried. Carter on Atlantis, to me, is Worf on DS9.

As I previously mentioned in, I believe, this very thread - in DS9 they didn't then proceed to have further TNG characters guest star in DS9 whilst Worf was already there as a major character. As it was, I believe there was discontent in the Trek fandom at the time about Worf's transplant to DS9. If, for example, fans of Data had at the time suggested that he could/should appear in a couple of DS9 episodes too, I'm sure many people would have been unhappy with that and would have felt that that would be too much TNG intrusion into DS9 (and, dare I say it, a little selfish on the part of the Data fans).

[Daniel Jackson]

Random woman? What relationship does McKay have with random women?? It would have been better if he had imagined Teyla, Weir or Sheppard in the PJ as part of his team and very important people to him...

I suppose they could have gone that route, but come on... it's McKay... of coarse he's gonna hullicinate Carter of all people. The man is obsessed for crying out loud!

No! If every fan got their favorite character to Atlantis, what would we get? Even if it is just for one episode.

That's why the fans don't run the show.

They are different shows, how often do I have to repeat that?

Irrelevant since they are both set in the same creative world. That, by nature, inevitably leads to crossover episodes.

You seriously claim that DJ is an Atlantis character? I won't even dignify that with a response

Why? "Rising" is an Atlantis episode with Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson) as a special guest star. That makes DJ an SG:A character.

That way I see it, you want the right to have your favorite character over and other people shouldn't get their wishes granted?

Did I say that? No. You made that up. Good job.

Where would you draw the line?

I don't know... if I were in charge of deciding which SG-1 characters would guest star in Season 4... Carter would be in ten episodes, two of which would be shared with Daniel. Both characters would take back seat to the SG:A cast unlike Lucius Lavin who got two episodes dedicated entirely to him, giving him more screen time than any individual SG:A character.

I tell you where I am: We have no choice but to deal with Carter and that's enough to deal with already. NOT ONE EPISODE more!!!

I'm sorry you don't want to see anyone else besides Carter, but I will not squash my desire to see DJ in one episode, just because it bugs a few members of the audience.

That means that you're not satisfied.

Why do you say that? I will happily enjoy Season 4 with or without DJ.

If they'd give you one now, you is to say you wouldn't claim how well it worked out and ask for another?

If they gave DJ an episode, I would be thrilled! Would I like another? YES! ...in Season 5. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. Carter as a recurring guest star in Season 4 rocks, but 14 episodes? I was thinking 5-10... wow...

It is a means to keep SG-1 alive, so it counts. Moving even more SG-1 characters over would mean trying to keep it artificially alive.

I am not trying to keep SG-1 alive by wanting to see DJ on SG:A. That's retarded. I simply feel that Michael Shanks as "Daniel Jackson" in one episode of Atlantis would greatly benefit the show. Of all the SG-1 characters, DJ is really the only one with reason to be on the show at all, yet he's only been in the first episode!

As already said, you want DJ, little Freddie wants O'Neill, little Tina wants Teal'c, aunt Grace wants Mitchell and Tom wants Vala...

I'm not little Freddie, little Tina, aunt Grace, nor Tom, so that is entirely irelavent. I would like to see a DJ episode. If it happens, great! If not, oh well.

Yes, one episode is selfish!

[mod snip]

Unless it's only supposed to be Daniel Jackson.

I never suggested anything else.

Then that would mean that fans of other characters shouldn't get their wish granted.

I'm not other fans.

Where does that leave us? --- selfish.

It's not selfish, it's reality. Not everyone gets their way, sorry.

[Daniel Jackson]

As I previously mentioned in, I believe, this very thread - in DS9 they didn't then proceed to have further TNG characters guest star in DS9 whilst Worf was already there as a major character. As it was, I believe there was discontent in the Trek fandom at the time about Worf's transplant to DS9. If, for example, fans of Data had at the time suggested that he could/should appear in a couple of DS9 episodes too, I'm sure many people would have been unhappy with that and would have felt that that would be too much TNG intrusion into DS9 (and, dare I say it, a little selfish on the part of the Data fans).

O'Brien and Worf were both transplanted from TNG to DS9. DS9 had numerous TNG characters in the first season despite O'Brien's pressense. DS9 continued to have TNG guest stars despite Worf's pressense. The fandom fracture began with VOY, not DS9.

[Alipeeps]

Dear god, it's the wookie defence all over again!

Why? "Rising" is an Atlantis episode with Michael Shanks (Daniel Jackson) as a special guest star. That makes DJ an SG:A character.

NO IT DOESN'T!! Being in ONE episode as a guest star (especially when you are already an established character on another show) does NOT make you an SGA character! By your reasoning, roughly half of the SG1 cast are Atlantis characters!

I'm sorry you don't want to see anyone else besides Carter, but I will not squash my desire to see DJ in one episode, just because it bugs a few members of the audience.

So if you are not in any way prepared to see the other side of the argument or to consider the possibility of your opinion not meeting everyone's agreement (and seek to dismiss all those who think otherwise as "a few members of the audience"), why for the love of all that is holy do you keep starting more and more threads belaboring and discussing the issue? You have no interest in anyone else's opinions and you have no intention of even trying to see any merit to their argument, so what is the point?

You want Daniel in Atlantis. We get it. Really we do. Luckily for us... you don't run the show.

P.S. Calling other forum user's opinions "retarded" (and repeatedly doing so at that) is not really in line with the whole "respect other forum users" rule.

[Alipeeps]

O'Brien and Worf were both transplanted from TNG to DS9. DS9 had numerous TNG characters in the first season despite O'Brien's pressense. DS9 continued to have TNG guest stars despite Worf's pressense. The fandom fracture began with VOY, not DS9.

Competely missing the point - again. O'Brien was a previously TNG character who joined DS9 from the very beginning (much like McKay in SG1 - SGA). He was a DS9 character from the start of the series. The first season is IRRELEVANT because we are discussing the issue of FURTHER TNG characters crossing over during Worf's tenure on DS9.

[caty]

I'm sorry you don't want to see anyone else besides Carter, but I will not squash my desire to see DJ in one episode, just because it bugs a few members of the audience.

Who said that you should squash your desire? The whole point of the forum is discussion and everybody here just wants to encourage you to take other points into account. But you are so set on your desires that you can't dicuss the issue coming up with valid points.

I'm not little Freddie, little Tina, aunt Grace, nor Tom, so that is entirely irelavent. I would like to see a DJ episode. If it happens, great! If not, oh well.

So you don't care about what other people want? I get that, your whole argumentation screams that. Only what you want is relevant.. Your own words explain more about you than I ever could.

It's not selfish, it's reality. Not everyone gets their way, sorry.

See above point.

I'm sorry, but that's retarded.

Great way to back up arguments. Congratulations for the maturity!

[Pegasus_SGA]

Now that my wonderful PC is working again i'm going to put my two cents in And it's just a quickie a first for me

Didn't one of the producers or writers actually say that Atlantis is now capable of standing on it's own two feet? So in that context what does it say? For me it says that Atlantis is perfectly capable of surviving without its parent show and wouldn't shouldn't that include the non crossover of SG1 members in that premise?

The whole reason SG1 crossovers happen from what i've read is that their hope is to bring some of the SG1 fans over to the show irrespective of alienating the SGA fans. I don't mind Carter coming over for a few eps, I like what she's done so far, but then where does it end? Daniel for 14 eps? Then Cam...then Vala...then two at a time?

Sure it works (from my perspective) where the storyline is appropriate, but does SGA really need Daniel? So far the stories have not warranted his coming over, and let's face it was he really needed? Nor do we need Cam or Vala...with Cam we have Sheppard, and to be honest I don't know how he could enhance the show (no disrespect to Cam fans) and if you think he would benefit SGA, then I would be interested to know how. Sam, I can understand to some degree, but with McKay there i'm not sure how she'll fit in to be honest, but no doubt her skills will be necessary with the Asurans (even though McKay has so far staved them off) And Vala...well i'll admit she's grown on me since she's mellowed, but what skills could she bring over?

Wasn't I going to make this short and to the point? *cough* What was the question again?

Oh yeah... in a nutshell, none of the Atlantis fans that i'm aware of have said that SG1 is taking over Atlantis as Ali said earlier. The concern is that once SG1 finishes more SG1 characters will continue to pop up on Atlantis, and while i'm fine with that where it's warranted, I am not happy if this is a regular occurence. SG1 had 10 years to build up their fanbase isn't it fair that SGA fans are afforded that same opportunity, without made to feel as if we're just moaning minnies?

[caty]

SG1 had 10 years to build up their fanbase isn't it fair that SGA fans are afforded that same opportunity, without made to feel as if we're just moaning minnies?

If you reread his arguments, this isn't about fairness It's about what he wants...

[Pegasus_SGA]

I know we are talking about Season 4. I am using existing crossover episodes as a frame of reference. As I have stated before, provide a list of crossover episodes that you feel took away from the SG:A cast.

Quick question, if you are talking about episodes that have already aired then you may want to change the thread title to SG1 has not taken over Atlantis. Because by using the word taking it implies for future episodes, not ones that have already aired. Your posts from what i've read and nicely pointed out btw indicate that SG1 casts haven't had a lot of screentime in SGA episodes, and those that have occured are warranted. I agree with you.

However your thread implies that SG1 is not taking over Atlantis (and you're using a future tenses) which is where the confusion may arise in people's responses. Now i'm not saying SG1 will or they won't take over, but the concern is there, can you see that? Given that Carter is coming over for S4 who else will be next? When will the SGA cast be allowed to stand on their own two feet (as was originally intended)? how can this possibly be achieved if the team are surrounded by the SG1 cast?

Would you have felt the same way if SGA members joined the SG1 team dynamics? Do you think that it would have interfered with screen time for the core members of SG1? You forget that we have had 3 seasons of SGA and in that time they are still under utilising several core members of the cast. In SG1 all the dynamics, backgrounds etc had already been established. Given this, don't you think it would be prudent to give that same opportunity to the SGA cast before they introduce other established cast members?

[Daniel Jackson]

NO IT DOESN'T!! Being in ONE episode as a guest star (especially when you are already an established character on another show) does NOT make you an SGA character!

If the character is in an episode of SG:A, it's an SG:A character. I'm sorry you can't come to grip with this simple fact.

By your reasoning, roughly half of the SG1 cast are Atlantis characters!

They double as SG-1 and Atlantis characters. Take Carter for example. My sister doesn't watch SG-1 nor does she care about the show. She loves to watch SG:A, though. To her, Carter is simply the blonde scientist in three episodes. When I told her Carter is returning for 14 episodes in Season 4, she flipped out and got all excited! For my sister, Carter is an SG:A character. It's a matter of perspective.

So if you are not in any way prepared to see the other side of the argument or to consider the possibility of your opinion not meeting everyone's agreement (and seek to dismiss all those who think otherwise as "a few members of the audience"), why for the love of all that is holy do you keep starting more and more threads belaboring and discussing the issue? You have no interest in anyone else's opinions and you have no intention of even trying to see any merit to their argument, so what is the point?

I see the other points of views, and I am aware that my opinion does not meet everyone else's standards. I'm sorry, but I think for myself and have my own opinion, but that does not stop me from discussing the issue.

You want Daniel in Atlantis. We get it. Really we do. Luckily for us... you don't run the show.

That's not why I started this thread. Other members decided to focus on that issue. I simply responded.

P.S. Calling other forum user's opinions "retarded" (and repeatedly doing so at that) is not really in line with the whole "respect other forum users" rule.

If you don't like my opinion that someone else's opinion is retarded, tough! It's my opinion, like it or not.

Competely missing the point - again. O'Brien was a previously TNG character who joined DS9 from the very beginning (much like McKay in SG1 - SGA). He was a DS9 character from the start of the series. The first season is IRRELEVANT because we are discussing the issue of FURTHER TNG characters crossing over during Worf's tenure on DS9.

As I said, there were numerous TNG guest stars after Worf joined the cast. I don't recall any DS9 fans having a problem with this.

[Pegasus_SGA]

If the character is in an episode of SG:A, it's an SG:A character. I'm sorry you can't come to grip with this simple fact.

Um...no, sorry, Daniel is an SG1 character he is a guest character on Atlantis, he is not a character per se on Atlantis...there's a difference.

They double as SG-1 and Atlantis characters. Take Carter for example. My sister doesn't watch SG-1 nor does she care about the show. She loves to watch SG:A, though. To her, Carter is simply the blonde scientist in three episodes. When I told her Carter is returning for 14 episodes in Season 4, she flipped out and got all excited! For my sister, Carter is an SG:A character. It's a matter of perspective.

They don't double anything, they are characters in their respective shows. Would you class Mitchell or Vala as Atlantis characters becasue they went to Atlantis? Carter is a guest star on Atlantis, she isn't a main character on SGA at all (not yet anyway). By the same token are you saying that Sheppard, Weir, Mckay, Beckett an SG1 character because..

S3 spoiler

Spoiler:

They did spend time there in the return etc.. and Weir ran the base...and where does Rodney fit in. Can the same be applied to Ronon as he was technically on Earth at the SGC? Would you class them as SG1 characters?

I see the other points of views, and I am aware that my opinion does not meet everyone else's standards. I'm sorry, but I think for myself and have my own opinion, but that does not stop me from discussing the issue.


That's not why I started this thread. Other members decided to focus on that issue. I simply responded.


If you don't like my opinion that someone else's opinion is retarded, tough! It's my opinion, like it or not.

No you're right in that regard where your opinion does not have to match others unless you are cleverly disguised as a lemming... You are well within your rights as a user of the forum to express any opinion you want even if it's disagreeing with other posters. But when you start calling people's opinions 'retarded' you have lost any credibility you ever had as a poster, and you lose any future arguments, because you are not able to rationalise your opinions without resorting to name calling, and it's not a very nice thing to do. If you want people to respect your points of views, there are ways and means of doing so. You started off so well with putting your facts down, that were clear for all to see and I respected that you had given it a lot of thought and good reasonings behind your arguments...even if I didn't agree with them. But by calling people's opinions 'retarded' means that you cannot support your arguments.

As I said, there were numerous TNG guest stars after Worf joined the cast. I don't recall any DS9 fans having a problem with this.

I'll be honest with you I never wanted Worf on DS9 either...as I said before very similar to this, STNG had a very good run and it finished, Worf didn't need to go over to DS9, but maybe the producers felt like it was a good plan...and it wasn't. The whole reasoning for bringing someone over from a well established show is to improve the ratings, that's the only reason. SGA can stand very well on its own two feet it does not need SG1 characters to keep it afloat...and if it does then doesn't that say something about the promoting of the show...the writing etc.... But that's for another thread.

[Madeleine]

If the character is in an episode of SG:A, it's an SG:A character. I'm sorry you can't come to grip with this simple fact.

I reckon there's probably a lot of people here who can't come to grip with a simple fact that is not really a fact . He belongs in SG-1. He was only ever in SG:A as a guest, and his presence was most guest-like. He's not an SG:A character. He's an SG-1 character that SG:A borowed

As I said, there were numerous TNG guest stars after Worf joined the cast. I don't recall any DS9 fans having a problem with this.

And? So? But? Therefore?

Nice for the DS9 fans. I'm pretty sure I was one of them for many years, and no I had no problem with Worf or O'Brien on the show (Q though, and Lwxana...) but what's that got to do with how anyone feels about Atlantis? They're different shows, and more importantly we're different people.

If you don't like my opinion that someone else's opinion is retarded, tough! It's my opinion, like it or not.

[mod hat on]

No, it's not "tough". It's been snipped. You do not get to tell other people that they or their opinions are retarded. We do ask that all posters at GateWorld respect the other posters here; and while we understand that disagreements can get heated and tense, 'retarded' is beyond heated and into disrespectful.

You're entitled to post your opinion about the show. You may only post opinions about other people if they are polite. Hope that's clear, any questions please do PM. Cheers.

Madeleine
GateWorld Moderator

[the_dark_light]

Wow, this thread is starting to look like War And Peace

On the O'Brien point, O'Brien is a lot like McKay. A character who has had very little screen time (well McKay was in a handful of eps, wheras the Chief makes semi-frequent appearances) And they are both good characters to expand and develop.

(By the way, has anyone ever noticed that there are very few NCO's in Star Trek, the Enterprise-D must have a crew of at least 500, in a traditional Naval structure, you'd expect there to few relatively few officers and more NCO's)

The crossover of characters between shows is to be expected, as they are set in the same time/place. I think the problem here is that a lot of fans want SG-1 characters in Atlantis because they miss SG-1. If you take that road to it's inevitable conclusion, you'd end up with this personnel configuration:

Expedition Leader: Gen. Hank Landry
Ranking (Line) Officer: Lt.Col. Cameron Mitchell
Head Scientist: Lt.Col Samantha Carter (I think I may have contradicted the last litem)
Zelenka: Dr Lee
CMO: Andromeda Computer
Gate Guy: Sgt. Walther Harriman

and so on and so on. It'd be SG-1 but set in another galaxy.

[racer24t]

Not carter and mckay show TPTB are just begging to get atlantis 86d whitch is sad since it has huge potential. Bring back the wraith they are good villians, TPTB are turning atlantis into sg-1 bringing in old cast members introducing same storylines they have been covered the average person can only take so much before it gets boring to watch and become less interesting for the viewer. If the TPTB would pull thier head out of thier buns and come up with fresh ideas season one of atlantis was great get back to that.

[Thor best friend]

[QUOTE=Pegasus_SGA;6265414][/COLOR]

Um...no, sorry, Daniel is an SG1 character he is a guest character on Atlantis, he is not a character per se on Atlantis...there's a difference.

after i watch the rising for sevenral time I can say

no no sga
than the show probaly will be named wormhole xtreme
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol
lol