Kill the show, but DO NOT kill the story

[Zeus]

You guys/gals are killin me with this anti-Christian BS. First, if the Ori represent any earth religion, it would Islam. Isn't it Islam that believes they must kill all the infidels? Second, if Christians were offended by the show, you would be hearing about it.

I know many Christians that are huge Science Fiction fans, and especially Stargate fans. And the Ori arc hasn't changed that at all.

I think some of you might be letting your anti-American and/or anti-Christian issues roll over into your frustration with SG1 being cancelled. You cannot blame Christians and/or President Bush for everything that is wrong in the world.

Stop drink the crazy liberal Kool-aid and come back to reality!

Firstly I am hardly anti-american I have many american freinds and lots of them are very religious heck one goes to BIOLA in california which I visited and went to classes so im hardly talking out of my rear end. My uncle is a revrand and theologian so I can hardly be anti-christian. Equally I live in england where Islam can be seen alot more easily than in america go to london. Where I also have friends. So I was woundering how long it would take someone to mention islam i think christians forget the crusades and give the church money or u got to hell do some research under Henry VII and before or onwards. I agree that for example the popes comment was so over reacted by muslims but equally lots of fundamentalist christians are hardly much better ie anti-abortion etc etc. Oh also my parent s are moving to america and I have many conversations with my friends about the same things.
Its just my opinion that I find too many religious people can not dissasociate themselves when a TV show makes examples of their religion, help us if anyone mentions Islam. I do think that lots of christians have turned off just for the reasons Farscapefan and others have stated, not all but quite a few. Islam can not be the one they are talking about as Ori does not have enough resemblance to it.
I also dont think its the right thing to do and persoannly say we are crazy liberals for not perticularly agreeing with religion. America is going so very conservative especially after 9/11 and it can be seen. Prehaps im lucky to have traveled as far wide as I have thanks mum and dad!!. To grasp how much of an enigma both america and the islam areas are.

PS im hardly frustrated SG 1 is cancelled it is only a tv show. Not something I live for

[Agent_Dark]

The Ori don't offend me because they parallel earth religions or whatever - they kinda offend me because they're boring. The idea of the Ori is ok but the execution of it on the show is crap.

[jander1023]

Additionally, wasn't it Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean that called Republicans/Conservative/Christians evil? Yet I don't recall anyone on the Repub/Cons/Christ side of the political spectrum making such outlandish statements.

So isn't it rather rich that an anti-Christian liberal would be in here claiming that Christians consider other people "evil" when, in fact, it is prominent figures on your side of the political spectrum that are actually calling people evil because they disagree with you?

Now I am certainly willing to concede that there are crazy people who claim to be Christians, that call people whom they disagree with evil, albeit a very small number. Probably about the same small number of liberals, such as liberal nut-job Howard Dean, do the same thing. (Although these kooks are not the head of the National Republican Party or any other large group. Unless you would like to provide some examples. I won't hold my breath.)

Although Howard Dean claims all these people to be evil, you will not find any Christians in here claiming the Ori to be just like Democrats/Liberals. Because it would be rather foolish to consider all Democrats/Liberals to be kooks just because a few of their leaders are. Just like it is rather foolish to make the anti-Christian claims that you are making based on your obviously, unfounded bias towards Christianity. Unless you would like to provide some recent examples of Christians killing entire worlds(or even small groups) of people because they won't follow Christianity.

Again, put down the Kool-Aid and come back to reality. You are certainly too caught up in the fiction part of science fiction.

[The Ori]

Nicely said to be honest I don;t mind that because sargate sg-1 has changed over the years but they have to carry over Teal'c, Jackson and Sam Carter at least!!

[MB.Eddie]

If SG-1 offends you so easily, there is one quick and easy solution, change the channel. Nothing irratates me more than people who find a TV show offensive and then try to kill it. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Don't try to control what I watch and like, just because you disagree with it. It just amazes me that some people think it's their duty to dictate what is "appropriate" for TV based on their own sense of morality.

Well said.

Isn't it Islam that believes they must kill all the infidels?

I dont think so. Its people misinterpreting it, or bending it to suit themselves. It happens in most religions. Always has been that way. Every religion has extremists mate...

[jander1023]

Firstly I am hardly anti-american I have many american freinds and lots of them are very religious heck one goes to BIOLA in california which I visited and went to classes so im hardly talking out of my rear end. My uncle is a revrand and theologian so I can hardly be anti-christian. Equally I live in england where Islam can be seen alot more easily than in america go to london. Where I also have friends. So I was woundering how long it would take someone to mention islam i think christians forget the crusades and give the church money or u got to hell do some research under Henry VII and before or onwards. I agree that for example the popes comment was so over reacted by muslims but equally lots of fundamentalist christians are hardly much better ie anti-abortion etc etc. Oh also my parent s are moving to america and I have many conversations with my friends about the same things.
Its just my opinion that I find too many religious people can not dissasociate themselves when a TV show makes examples of their religion, help us if anyone mentions Islam. I do think that lots of christians have turned off just for the reasons Farscapefan and others have stated, not all but quite a few. Islam can not be the one they are talking about as Ori does not have enough resemblance to it.
I also dont think its the right thing to do and persoannly say we are crazy liberals for not perticularly agreeing with religion. America is going so very conservative especially after 9/11 and it can be seen. Prehaps im lucky to have traveled as far wide as I have thanks mum and dad!!. To grasp how much of an enigma both america and the islam areas are.

PS im hardly frustrated SG 1 is cancelled it is only a tv show. Not something I live for

Regarding your first sentence, I said "anti-American and/or anti-Christian". Please note the and/or.

Regarding your crusades comment, do you really understand what the crusades were about? The crusades were in response to the Islamic invasion of Europe. The crusades were not a bunch of Christians crusading about the world telling everybody they had to become Christians or else. It had much more to do with the native Europeans taking back their lands that were conquered by the invading Muslims.

As a Christian, I find nothing offensive about the Ori since the Ori do not represent Christianity. If you believe they do, I would suggest that you don't know much about Christianity. A good book to read to get a better understanding would be Mere Christianity by a fellow Brit CS Lewis.

If you have to compare the Ori to any earth religion, I would argue that they are more similar to Islam. Did you follow the story recently in Palestine where the Muslim terrorist kidnapped 2 American reports and attempted to force them to convert to Islam? Would you like to provide some recent examples of Christians doing anything similar to this?

You also made a comment about Christians being opposed to abortion. Yet only 1 person who claimed to be a Christian has blown anything up in opposition to abortion. But I have lost count of the nubmer of Muslims that have blown things up because they disagree with it. So why do you give Islam a free pass regarding this? Just wondering.

[Zeus]

Ill be honest with you I kind of dislike the whole idea of religion in general no matter what seems to controlling and hipocritical no matter what religion it is in my opiniion
ye i got some examples

A Christian fundamentalist cult known as the Branch Davideans opend fire on federal officers having a warrant, killing several officers. Believing the US Government possessed by Satan, they committed mass suicide by burning their Waco commune to the ground claiming almost 90 lives, many of them children. Some Christian fundamentalists hailed them as heroes and martyrs, and insisted Satan in fact possessed the government.

A Christian fundamentalist also murdered a New York gynecologist in the living room of his home. The killer was hailed as a hero for carrying out "God's Judgment" by many fundamentalists. Conservative columnist Cal Thomas blamed the murder on the doctor himself saying abortion "cheapens life."

Matthew Shepherd, a 21-year-old gay man, was beaten nearly to death and left to die tied to fence post in Wyoming. With shouts of "God hates ****," some fundamentalists clearly expressed joy at the murder. Other fundamentalists claim AIDS is "God's punishment for sin."The two thugs were caught and convicted of murder.

Hear are examples of some fundamentalist christian killings.
Thirdly I do agree that only about 15% of christians are fundametalist and would not begin to suggest all christians are and I never did intend to. Although you seem to have managed to think that I have.
I did know about the crusades being somewhat about the invasion of Islam but I have to be honest that argument of mine was flawed quite a bit im not that read up on it

But this is wikipedia for you on the crusades
"The Crusades were a series of military campaigns waged in the name of Christendom[1] and usually sanctioned by the Pope.[2] They were of a religious character, combining pilgrimage with militarism. When originally conceptualized, the aim was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims while supporting the Byzantine Empire against the "ghazwat" of the Seljuq [3] expansion into Anatolia. The fourth crusade however was diverted and resulted in the conquest of Constantinople. Later crusades were launched against various targets for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons, such as the Albigensian Crusade, the Aragonese Crusade, and the Northern Crusades."
Info taken from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Im also not sure what I think of the Ori I cant say to be honest seem to be very christian the whole fire thing and the language seems very bible esc

[jander1023]

Ill be honest with you I kind of dislike the whole idea of religion in general no matter what seems to controlling and hipocritical no matter what religion it is in my opiniion
ye i got some examples

A Christian fundamentalist cult known as the Branch Davideans opend fire on federal officers having a warrant, killing several officers. Believing the US Government possessed by Satan, they committed mass suicide by burning their Waco commune to the ground claiming almost 90 lives, many of them children. Some Christian fundamentalists hailed them as heroes and martyrs, and insisted Satan in fact possessed the government.

A Christian fundamentalist also murdered a New York gynecologist in the living room of his home. The killer was hailed as a hero for carrying out "God's Judgment" by many fundamentalists. Conservative columnist Cal Thomas blamed the murder on the doctor himself saying abortion "cheapens life."

Matthew Shepherd, a 21-year-old gay man, was beaten nearly to death and left to die tied to fence post in Wyoming. With shouts of "God hates ****," some fundamentalists clearly expressed joy at the murder. Other fundamentalists claim AIDS is "God's punishment for sin."The two thugs were caught and convicted of murder.

Hear are examples of some fundamentalist christian killings.
Thirdly I do agree that only about 15% of christians are fundametalist and would not begin to suggest all christians are and I never did intend to. Although you seem to have managed to think that I have.
I did know about the crusades being somewhat about the invasion of Islam but I have to be honest that argument of mine was flawed quite a bit im not that read up on it

But this is wikipedia for you on the crusades
"The Crusades were a series of military campaigns waged in the name of Christendom[1] and usually sanctioned by the Pope.[2] They were of a religious character, combining pilgrimage with militarism. When originally conceptualized, the aim was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims while supporting the Byzantine Empire against the "ghazwat" of the Seljuq [3] expansion into Anatolia. The fourth crusade however was diverted and resulted in the conquest of Constantinople. Later crusades were launched against various targets for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons, such as the Albigensian Crusade, the Aragonese Crusade, and the Northern Crusades."
Info taken from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Im also not sure what I think of the Ori I cant say to be honest seem to be very christian the whole fire thing and the language seems very bible esc

Quote from Freekzilla's post,

"If you ask me, the Ori act just like Conservative Christian Evangelicals, if you don't believe like they do, then you are evil. The Ori and Conservative Christian Evangelicals both tend to act like a fascist movement."

I didn't attach this comment to you Zeus. But I think it is clear what Freekzilla thinks.

The examples you gave are not examples of Conservative Christian Evangelicals, but of some crazy kooks that claim to be Christians. The Branch Davidians were screwballs. They are not and were not a large Christian organization or religion. They were a cult. But the feds screwed up that situation and have taken serious heat about how they handled the situation. The feds didn't show up at the door with a warrant. They sent federal swat team.

Regarding your 2nd example: Do you have a link to the Cal Thomas article where he blames the victim as you suggest? I find that hard to believe. And maybe you can provide some links from major Christian organization that praised this killing? Or any links to any Christian organization that praised this killing?

The Shepherd murder was committed by 2 kids that weren't Christians. Neither attended church on a regular basis or at all that I am aware of. Additionally, could you provide links to any church or religious organization that was joyful about that crime?

I certainly agree with you that every religion has it share of screwballs. But the 15% number you provided is neither factual, reasonable or can be verified with any proof. That is simply your opinion and you are welcome to it. It is my opinion that 15% is a huge over-estimate on your behalf.

Regardless of what the percentage it is, the percentage of radical Muslims is certainly larger than the percentage of radical/fundamental Christians. This should be pretty evident by the excessive amount of violence being committed by radical Muslims. So I find it rather interesting that Christianity is being compared to the Ori, when the Ori are much more similar to the violent tendencies we see in radical Islam today. I am not suggesting that all Muslims are radicals, but there is certainly a much larger problem today with radical Muslims than radical/fundamental Christians.

[Kingomon]

What has this turned into?

[MB.Eddie]

What has this turned into?

Yes it has gone a bit off topic hasnt it...

I think that a name change, and perhaps a new setting could do the show the world of good if it was to go on in a series format. Dont think they need to get a new cast straight away as the most of the current ones can carry on imo.

[Zeus]

Quote from Freekzilla's post,

"If you ask me, the Ori act just like Conservative Christian Evangelicals, if you don't believe like they do, then you are evil. The Ori and Conservative Christian Evangelicals both tend to act like a fascist movement."

I didn't attach this comment to you Zeus. But I think it is clear what Freekzilla thinks.

The examples you gave are not examples of Conservative Christian Evangelicals, but of some crazy kooks that claim to be Christians. The Branch Davidians were screwballs. They are not and were not a large Christian organization or religion. They were a cult. But the feds screwed up that situation and have taken serious heat about how they handled the situation. The feds didn't show up at the door with a warrant. They sent federal swat team.

Regarding your 2nd example: Do you have a link to the Cal Thomas article where he blames the victim as you suggest? I find that hard to believe. And maybe you can provide some links from major Christian organization that praised this killing? Or any links to any Christian organization that praised this killing?

The Shepherd murder was committed by 2 kids that weren't Christians. Neither attended church on a regular basis or at all that I am aware of. Additionally, could you provide links to any church or religious organization that was joyful about that crime?

I certainly agree with you that every religion has it share of screwballs. But the 15% number you provided is neither factual, reasonable or can be verified with any proof. That is simply your opinion and you are welcome to it. It is my opinion that 15% is a huge over-estimate on your behalf.

Regardless of what the percentage it is, the percentage of radical Muslims is certainly larger than the percentage of radical/fundamental Christians. This should be pretty evident by the excessive amount of violence being committed by radical Muslims. So I find it rather interesting that Christianity is being compared to the Ori, when the Ori are much more similar to the violent tendencies we see in radical Islam today. I am not suggesting that all Muslims are radicals, but there is certainly a much larger problem today with radical Muslims than radical/fundamental Christians.

Ill be honest with you I do not have any links as this is just commited to memory and from speaking to some friends who live in America as such you are proabably privy to more information than I. So not a great way to construct an argument. We live and learn.
I will agree with you that Islamic funadamentalism is by far the greater and maybe the 15% I had heard about is an overestimate on my part. I thought evangelicals were like the people who sing really lively in church rather than like traditional choir?
I do not hink religion is evil but persoanally its not for me as for the Ori like I said I try not to compare it to anything, its make beleave.
I have enjoyed this discussion as it actually made me think and improve my argument skills unlike my job. So thanks very much.
You get green!!!

[jander1023]

Ill be honest with you I do not have any links as this is just commited to memory and from speaking to some friends who live in America as such you are proabably privy to more information than I. So not a great way to construct an argument. We live and learn.
I will agree with you that Islamic funadamentalism is by far the greater and maybe the 15% I had heard about is an overestimate on my part. I thought evangelicals were like the people who sing really lively in church rather than like traditional choir?
I do not hink religion is evil but persoanally its not for me as for the Ori like I said I try not to compare it to anything, its make beleave.
I have enjoyed this discussion as it actually made me think and improve my argument skills unlike my job. So thanks very much.
You get green!!!

I enjoyed the discussion as well. A nice break inbetween my calls at work! I will send some green your way as well.

I am not sure what the exact definition of Evangelical Christians is. I am sure you could google it or check it out at Wiki. But I don't believe it has to do with singing styles. I have been to some mostly black churches were they sing with a choir and are very lively in the pews. But this had less to do with denomination and more to do with having a lively church gathering.

My only issue with post like Freekzilla's is that they have no factual basis. I haven't seen any post on this website from a Christian that is offended by the Ori arc. Nor have I found or heard about any Christian organization being critical about the Ori arc. So it would seem that either ignorance or anti-Christian bias would be responsible for a person like Freekzilla coming to his conclusion.

Additionally, being a Christian, I have always been surprised by how many Christians are science fiction fans. In fact, I originally didn't watch SG1 very much. I liked the movie, but didn't like the idea of RDA being in the series. I wasn't a huge McGiver fan. But some of my church friends actually got me hooked on SG1. Now I love it as much as I love Star Trek and other SciFi shows. Just my 2 cents.

[kmiller1610]

If you ask me, the Ori act just like Conservative Christian Evangelicals, if you don't believe like they do, then you are evil. The Ori and Conservative Christian Evangelicals both tend to act like a fascist movement.

You illustrate my point PERFECTLY. Stargate is a business. It is meant to attract viewers and build an audience. The Ori are a reflection of the politics of the writers. They are a very bad business move.

Do you think there are enough Evangelical haters in the Stargate audience to make up for the Evangelicals who left town in season nine?

Let's look at just ONE evangelical group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangel...m#Demographics


"The World Evangelical Alliance is a network of churches in 127 nations that have each formed an evangelical alliance and over 100 international organizations joining together to give a worldwide identity, voice and platform to more than 420 million evangelical Christians"

420 million viewers....... pretty big group to flip off ......

[jander1023]

You illustrate my point PERFECTLY. Stargate is a business. It is meant to attract viewers and build an audience. The Ori are a reflection of the politics of the writers. They are a very bad business move.

Do you think there are enough Evangelical haters in the Stargate audience to make up for the Evangelicals who left town in season nine?

Let's look at just ONE evangelical group:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangel...m#Demographics


"The World Evangelical Alliance is a network of churches in 127 nations that have each formed an evangelical alliance and over 100 international organizations joining together to give a worldwide identity, voice and platform to more than 420 million evangelical Christians"

420 million viewers....... pretty big group to flip off ......

I am not sure what your point is. Like I was saying to Zeus, I don't recall any Christians saying they were offended by the Ori arc. Has anyone here seen a Christian on this site claim they stopped watching because of the Ori arc? Or has anyone seen/heard of any Christian organization having an issue with the Ori arc? There are no Christians up in arms about the Ori.

Freekzilla makes his comments because he is simply ignorant about Christianity, which explains why he would make such an ignorant comparison. Now if the writers were quoted as having said what Freekzilla did, then you would probably receive some flack.

I believe it is more reasonable to assume that viewership is down because of the departure of RDA and other tbtd issues. I hear plenty of posters on this site complain about a variety of issues with the show. Yet I have never heard anyone say that they stopped watching because the Ori offended their Christian beliefs.

[Skydiver]

we've been over this a dozen times folks, while the ori may be interpreted as being part of ANY extremist religion, TPTB have not based them on ANY ONE religion...and pretty much every religion out there has its extremists

Let's lose the religious stuff please