Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[shaqarava]

earth has cloacking technology right?

If by Earth you mean Trek, then yes, they have 2, well had 2.

The first was developed by Starfleet which breached the Federation-Romulan Treaty of Algeron, and Picard had a fit about it and threw the admiral in the brig

The second was Romulan in origin who gave it out on load to starfleet in return that Starfleet give all intelligence on the Dominion to the Romulans. It was put on the Defiant for scouting and intelligence gathring into the Gamma Quadrant; she blew up though

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Slight correction, the one that Picard had a 'fit' over was not a standard cloaking device but a phase cloak which allowed it to pass solid objects. So think Tollan phase device + normal cloaking device.

In trek though the Federation does not use the cloaking device widely mainly because of protest from the Romulans. The Romulans and the Klingons use it alot though.

[Kingomon]

How about we turn this into a war and lets say all the races are still around and tecs too. I'll list the Stargate side:
Main Alliance Ship-Okay the Tollan since they could make Phase missles they can make Ship style phase tec & Tollan Guns, the Asgard would add Beam tec & Shields as back up & Holograms & Hyperspace, Goa'uld/Jaffa would add ship fire power & Regular Engines & the Mother ship Design, Ancients Shield & Cloak, and you have the ultamate ships (No Time or Alter Reality stuff).

Fleet Ships-Wraith hive Ship,Anubis Ship,Goa'uld Motherships,Goa'uld Shuttles,Asgard Ships, The O'neill, Anubis Style Goa'uld Ships, Deldus ( I forget Names of ships), Promethus,Ethon,Aroura,Atlantis, and Replicator ships.

Fighters-Puddle jumpers,Earth Fighters,Goa'uld Fighters, Wraith Darts, and Replicators because they can take ships

Main Base-Atlantis will be the Base of Cammand

Weapons-Goa'uld Staffs and Hand Device, Ancients outpost, Ancient gate buster, shock granade, Zats,P-90s,Wraith stunner, Orlin Gun,Tollan guns, Ancient personal shield, cloak of Asgard or Goa'uld, the Prior staff

Soilders-Jaffa,Ori, Proirs,Anubis Clones,Baal clones,Wraith,Replicators, Tauri, and that is the Armies

[shaqarava]

Cheerfully withdrawn! Well, my point's still valid anyway, the Romulans did share they're cloaking tech...

^I take it you mean SG? No. Well, in Trek they didn't either. The treaty with the Romulans didn't allow for it, until the Dominion came into play, and they leant one to Starfleet for use in the Gamma Quadrant.

Well Trek does have more succes with time travel. In stargate only the ancients are known to have time travel capability, in trek, you can travel back in time easily by sling shotting round the round and gathring enough speed. Also, the Vorlons have experience in it, even criminals have access to the technology. Starfleet even has an agency specifically for investigating such incidents: Temporal Investigations. Also in the 29th century the USS relativity patrols the timeline fixing anomalies. Later in the 31st century? Daniells even mentions a temporal cold war, so Trek has extensive experience in the matter.

And the Romulans only leant out one cloak to the feds , once defiant was destroyed so was the only 'legal' federation-possesed cloak.

Slight correction, the one that Picard had a 'fit' over was not a standard cloaking device but a phase cloak which allowed it to pass solid objects. So think Tollan phase device + normal cloaking device.

I thought that's what i said,

"not only is it a standard cloak but it enables the ship to go through solid matter (TNG ep, The pegasus) Same sort of thing teh Tollans have except equipped on ships."

[PG15]

How about we turn this into a war and lets say all the races are still around and tecs too. I'll list the Stargate side:
Main Alliance Ships-Okay the Tollan since they could make Phase missles they can make Ship style phase tec & Tollan Guns, the Asgard would add Beam tec & Shields as back up & Holograms & Hyperspace, Goa'uld/Jaffa would add ship fire power & Regular Engines & the Mother ship Design, Ancients Shield & Cloak, and you have the ultamate ships (No Time or Alter Reality stuff).
Fighters-Puddle jumper cloak & fire weapons & Scematics, Goa'uld Engines, this is a simple set up but they will be surrounded by Replicators
Main Base-Atlantis will be the Base of Cammand
Soilders-Jaffa,Ori,Wraith,Replicators, Tauri, and that is the Armies
The Rest of Ships of universe will cancel each other out.I would like to hear the Star Trek ships and Armies

Ok, by your categories...

Main Alliance Ships: Soverign Class Battle Cruisers (Federation), Scimitar-class Romulan/Reman ships, Negh'Var class Klingon ships, Borg Cubes, Species 8472 Planet busters, or just regular ships are fine, Tholian web-makers, Krenim time ships, and Dominion Dreadnaughts.

Fighters: Klingon BOPs, Romulan BOPs, Federation fighters, Defiant class starships (they're small and manuverable enough to be fighters), Jem"Hadar attackships.

Main Base - Earth, or maybe Deep Space Nine

Soldiers - Borg drones, Klingon warriors, Jem'Hadar, Changelings, and a lot of them.

[Mio]

But does Atlantis count as a ship? If so, then Stargate.... Especially if....see sig

[Thor of The Asgard]

But does Atlantis count as a ship? If so, then Stargate.... Especially if....see sig

atlantis is a flying city that is actuelly a ship...
didnt you see "rising 1"
see that the city flies, takes off and than a huge wave covers all??

[Kingomon]

Ok, by your categories...

Main Alliance Ships: Soverign Class Battle Cruisers (Federation), Scimitar-class Romulan/Reman ships, Negh'Var class Klingon ships, Borg Cubes, Species 8472 Planet busters, or just regular ships are fine, Tholian web-makers, Krenim time ships, and Dominion Dreadnaughts.

Fighters: Klingon BOPs, Romulan BOPs, Federation fighters, Defiant class starships (they're small and manuverable enough to be fighters), Jem"Hadar attackships.

Main Base - Earth, or maybe Deep Space Nine

Soldiers - Borg drones, Klingon warriors, Jem'Hadar, Changelings, and a lot of them.

Thats good Fleet but can it hold against the Replicators? oh! and I add some changes to my fleet because I only list a combined ship.

[Darschu]

"You canna' change the laws of physics"
-Scotty

Tough thing about debating the strengths of 2 completely different series is believing whether the person posting their reply has any idea of the exact sciences behind either one of these two series.

First thing to remember is that they are made up. A funny thing made up things are, in that you can make up whatever you want to, and succesfully so being that they are...well made up.

Now I understand that we are comparing ship vs. ship, but many have evolved this into race vs. race. I'm going to throw a serious damper into this by saying that any debate on this as a "universe vs. universe" is a bit silly. Star Trek will come out on top every time you try this comparison, and this can all be related to the letter "Q".

What being from Stargate can compare to the omnipotent "Q"? None.

As far as debating this as a straight ship vs. ship debate, you will have to understand the supplied sciences behind the series. This is where the discussion falters as we cannot compare this as an M1A2 Abrahms vs a low rider with gang bangers. Meaning that we know what the outcome would be, and why.

You can discuss megatons, kilatons, and the like all you want. Just because a Go'auld ship can use it's shields to protect itself from a conventionally launched nuclear device does not mean that it would be as succesful as a warp launched photon torpedo containing it's own multiphasic shielding device.

Oh yeh, forgot to mention that Star Trek ships are capable of fighting within warp space, and that photon torpedoes operate at warp speeds.

Comparing numbers is also a bit misleading. I'll put a squadron of F-16's vs 1000 WWII bombers everyday, and not lose 1 F16, nor would any of those bombers see one as the F16's would have fired their missiles from 20+ miles away.

Don't get me wrong, I love SG1. Just that trying to compare them is a silly thing to do!

[KSTreadhead]

being a reformed fan of Star Trek the only cross-time Trek ship possible is the late 21st Century - early 22nd century Enterprise as it is the closest in the time quantums to get to the Stargate quantum. The 23rd or 24th century ships would have to do a timetravel slingshot around a planet or star at warp first before crossing across timelines. Unless one uses Specter by Wm. Shatner form the Star Trek novels I doubt that the Federation or any predescessor or neighboring interstellar state would be able to reach the SG universe. Now another thought, how many of you have ever played Traveller in any of its formes? A Tigress class Dreadnaught of the Imperial Navy would and could take on a Goa'uld mothership or even Anubis' mothership and do serious damage to it. Its primary weapon is a messon spinal mount weapon. It has twice as many fighters than a standard Goa'uld mothership has Deathgliders. It has only a messon shield, I don't know how such a shield would resist the heavy plasma cannons of the Goa'uld ships, but it has think dense metal alloy hull armor though. Another drawback is that it has only a regiment of ships troops if I remember the statistics I have seen. Now the Tigress usually was deployed by the Third Imperium in Batrons or Battle Squadrons of six to twelve ships with a couple of Crurons or Cruiser Squadrons to act as screens for the Batron. For a mental image of the Tigress think of a ship the size of Darth Vader's Star Cruiser from Return of the Jedi, but spherical with a boxy-wedge shaped engineering and flight deck section attached to the back of the ship. It has a wedge shaped cut-out area that has a double doored retractable blast shield that covers the forward aimed messon weapon.
A Trek ship may be able to give a Tigress a hard time, but the Tigress class would give a mothership a go for its money and maybe a hive ship as well. The advantage the Tigress' ships' troops would have is that they are equiped with powered armored battlesuits. These troops carry man-portable plasma-guns or fusion-guns, think bulky SA-80 resembling weapons that shoot a plasma-bolt like the staff weapons. Those not carrying plasma or fusion guns are carrying gaussrifles in 4.5 mm caliber. Each 4.5mm round has a softmetal like copper or brass hull surrounding a solid dense metal core made of steel, titatium or depleated uranium. These rounds are designed to penitrate body armor. The gaussrifle in Traveller has a 4cm Rocket Assisted Munition grenade cup launcher incorporated into its design. These 4cm RAM grenades come in the same categories as the M-203 grenades.
I think that those Jafa still serving the System Lords would have a hard fight with the Marines of the Tigress' Ship's Troops Regiment. Now the Regiment has three battalions of Marine Infantry, one Squadron of Marine Grav Tanks, an Artillery Battalion, and a Support Battalion. This force is between 3000 to 4000 officers and enlisted Marines. The ship itself has a crew on nearly 6000 to 8000 including the Marines, the Fighter Pilots and other ship's crew.
KSTreadhead
Douglas L Hemmingway

[KSTreadhead]

"You canna' change the laws of physics"
-Scotty

Tough thing about debating the strengths of 2 completely different series is believing whether the person posting their reply has any idea of the exact sciences behind either one of these two series.

First thing to remember is that they are made up. A funny thing made up things are, in that you can make up whatever you want to, and succesfully so being that they are...well made up.

Now I understand that we are comparing ship vs. ship, but many have evolved this into race vs. race. I'm going to throw a serious damper into this by saying that any debate on this as a "universe vs. universe" is a bit silly. Star Trek will come out on top every time you try this comparison, and this can all be related to the letter "Q".

What being from Stargate can compare to the omnipotent "Q"? None.

As far as debating this as a straight ship vs. ship debate, you will have to understand the supplied sciences behind the series. This is where the discussion falters as we cannot compare this as an M1A2 Abrahms vs a low rider with gang bangers. Meaning that we know what the outcome would be, and why.

You can discuss megatons, kilatons, and the like all you want. Just because a Go'auld ship can use it's shields to protect itself from a conventionally launched nuclear device does not mean that it would be as succesful as a warp launched photon torpedo containing it's own multiphasic shielding device.

Oh yeh, forgot to mention that Star Trek ships are capable of fighting within warp space, and that photon torpedoes operate at warp speeds.

Comparing numbers is also a bit misleading. I'll put a squadron of F-16's vs 1000 WWII bombers everyday, and not lose 1 F16, nor would any of those bombers see one as the F16's would have fired their missiles from 20+ miles away.

Don't get me wrong, I love SG1. Just that trying to compare them is a silly thing to do!

However the squadron of ten to fifteen F-16s would run out of missiles before the air-fleet of WW-2 type bombers were all shot down, also when they close to gun range they would soon expend their cannon ammunition stores as well. This would still leave a sizable force to bomb a target unless enough bombers are also brought down by any Patriot batteries protecting the target. Of course if in the converse a world with our level of technology were to invade a world with the level of technology of say any of the Allied or Axis nations of WW-2 the initial invasion would meet with success, but eventually unless there are follow on forces the locals numbers would eventually tax and overcome the advantages of invading forces. Those worlds with Victorian Age technologies would have it even worse than a WW-2 tech world. At least the WW-2 tech world could mate a primitive atomic weapon with a primitive intermediate range ballistic missile (V-2/ A-4). And if the invasion occurs at the right end of the Technology development the F-303s or even deployed AV-8 Harriers or F/A-18 Hornets would have to face something that resembles the F-80 Shooting Star, the ME-262 Swallow or the HE-162 Volksjaeger.
KSTreadhead
Douglas L Hemmingway
PS I may be wrong on the Heinkle jet fighter.

[The_Fifth]

What being from Stargate can compare to the omnipotent "Q"? None.

the ascendeds!!

[PG15]

Close, but not quite.

The Q can do ANYTHING.

[Thor of The Asgard]

the ascendeds!!

thats right...the ascended are all powerfull....nothing in this universe let alone world can stop or deny thier power....exapt the ori who oppose them

[The_Fifth]

Close, but not quite.

The Q can do ANYTHING.

but they can be destroy with Q weapons meanwhile the ancients... No !