Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[qingbest]

Can Federation ships sustain fire from 3 enemy ships for 2 hours and 8 minutes?
Because Destiny can.

[qingbest]

How powerful is say a gram of Naquadah, next to a gram of M/AM?

You said that M/AM explosion is 46.54KT while if you set a Naquadah generator to overload it has been give by Mckay to be a 30MT explosion with a small tube of liquid Naquadah. And that it will take 30 seconds to overload and explode. That small tube with estimate to be around to be about 2 grams. -Shrugs- So is there anything more powerful?
(Ref Rising p1 &2)

[qingbest]

To penetrate Star Trek shields you'd need raw power, that's kinda the point.

No one's ever actually stated that Drones use some magical device to beat shields, to state that there is one would be to create fanon.
Even if Drones could penetrate ST shields, Star Trek has thick hulls made of materials many times harder than diamond, ablative hull armor that can deal with relativistic weapons and this tech can be fitted to even old starfleet ships, basically you get past the shields and you still need at least the abillity disintegrate some very tough stuff to do any damage, let alone disable or destroy the ship.

The capability is the amount of power channeled into their phase generator within the drone.
In terms of breaking hull it goes through hull several times before exploding. http://images.wikia.com/stargate/ima...1215465237.jpg

[DutchCarterLover]

It all depends on who the writers want to win LOL

[qingbest]

It all depends on who the writers want to win LOL

However have you read pages 30-50 where Darth and Tutsuja(forgot). Because they explain that concept.

[morrismike]

Can Federation ships sustain fire from 3 enemy ships for 2 hours and 8 minutes?
Because Destiny can.

With all due respect, those shield are great against a sun but a toilet lid blast, uberbeam, or superhive bolt would blow right thru.

[qingbest]

With all due respect, those shield are great against a sun but a toilet lid blast, uberbeam, or superhive bolt would blow right thru.

Watch Divided and the ship was taking sustained bombardment from 3 Nakai Motherships. The FTL engines must be kept cool from a drop out and that time is 3 hours, the Col. was already suited up and Greer only took 10 minutes (assume) they got out and I am giving another generous number to get to the other hull breach it takes 30 minutes and while they were they showed up, taking on sublight engines they should get there in 12 minutes(generous) so the bombardment started and the shields held for 2 hours and 7 minutes and 40 seconds ( speculation) because before they jumped they started sparking in the lab where they were and all the other sections such as the mess and other locations.

[morrismike]

Watch Divided and the ship was taking sustained bombardment from 3 Nakai Motherships. The FTL engines must be kept cool from a drop out and that time is 3 hours, the Col. was already suited up and Greer only took 10 minutes (assume) they got out and I am giving another generous number to get to the other hull breach it takes 30 minutes and while they were they showed up, taking on sublight engines they should get there in 12 minutes(generous) so the bombardment started and the shields held for 2 hours and 7 minutes and 40 seconds ( speculation) because before they jumped they started sparking in the lab where they were and all the other sections such as the mess and other locations.

Those motherships were nothing. A ST freighter could outgun them.

[qingbest]

Those motherships were nothing. A ST freighter could outgun them.

However they seem to take heavy fire when the Destiny fired. And the Destiny seemed to take no damage for at least 2 hours from 3 ships. I doubt that any Federation ship will sustain fire from 3 ships of any kind for 2 hours.

[qingbest]

I like to point out some pro and cons in both series.

1. Stargate consoles DO NOT explode in you face when you under attack. In Stargate they use crystal technology which Star Trek probably haven't discovered. And they use normal wire conduits.
Star Trek consoles have plasma conduits under them and when you are under attack they explode in your face.
2. Stargate ships can transport people or objects when their shields are functional
and in Star Trek shields must be lowered to transport.
3. Stargate ships take damage after they lose shields and Star Trek ships start taking damage after one section of the shields fall below 50% they start taking damage to some systems.
4. Some Stargate ships are mind controlled such as the Puddle Jumpers and Ori motherships are also capable of doing that but must be a prior. Star Trek ships do not use mind control and have a limited control system by using LCARUS or something.
5.Star Trek ships are bounded to the MW and Stargate ships are not limited. It takes the Daedalus about 3 weeks-4 weeks to get to the PG and about 3 days using a ZPM. Asgard ships take approx. 2 minutes to cross a galaxy and its void. Destiny takes just days to cross the void. But destiny is an exploratory ship and it takes about 3 years to cross a galaxy but the purpose of that is to collect info and record it. In Star Trek it takes approx. 70 years to do that or more.
6. Stargate seem to take more damage against some ships (simulation based) than Star Trek
According to a Destiny simulation the ship has still got hull breaches and still manage to hold for 45 minutes to jump into FTL.
Reference: Trial and Error
Reference on explosion of consoles: ST: Nemesis
Reference on the Daedalus speed: The Siege, Mckay and Mrs Miller
Reference on Asgard speed: Fragile Damage
Reference of Destiny speed: Gauntlet
Reference of Shield damage of ST: Nemesis

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I am not ordering you to watch episodes I am merely asking you.

If you were asking someone then you would say "have you seen this episode?", you made a demand of someone by saying to them "watch this episode", it's rude IMO and not polite.

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Destiny

What exactly am I supposed to be looking at in this link?

Is what was said by Joseph Mallozzi.
Or is it suppose to be 100TW of a binary pulsar orbit. My understanding of Ancient is very rudimentary and therefore I admit I can't translate it very correctly however I know the numbers and have made progress on reading the letters. Also Binary Pulsars are very real in life.
Is the direct link to the age of Destiny and also there is some reference in some episodes and if I remember the reference is in Gauntlet, Common Decent and Blockade. There are some reference in Season 1 as well

No specifics have been given about Destiny's exact age, as in how many million years old it is, but everyone knows it's very old so asside from saying it's older than anything else shown in almost every sci-fi show out there I don't know what your point is in mentioning that.
I agree Destiny is very impressive.

BTW as I've already stated many times there's basically zero chance the Ancients would face off against the Federation or any peaceful race within Star Trek since they're both very peaceful groups, same with the Asgard.
A quote from the wiki

Here is the direct linkhttp://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...antis-mailbag/

What part of that link am I meant to look at and for what reason should I be looking at it?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

1. Neutronium yes is found in neutron stars and has a atomic number of 0 and in wikipedia it stats that Neutronium is the basis of Asgard and Replicator technology.

You said that Neutronium could be obtained from solar panels, I was pointing out that it cannot, it comes from Neutron stars in the real world and happens to be in ore form on planets in the Stargate Universe, if this was the case in Star Trek then it would be easy for the Federation to obtain in the STverse, there's nothing impressive about getting a material out of the ground and processing it, any species with modern technology should be capable of this, especially one that dissassemble things on the nano scale like races in ST with matter transporters and matter fabrication technology (like Replicators).

2.They have managed to modify Stargates to only dial out and decline any incoming wormholes I believe they rebuilt it.

Who exactly are you referring to here and what was the point of mentioning this?

3. Transport beams in ST require shields to be dropped and then beamed however in SG they don't need to be. Shields in SG the strength of them is directly proportional to how much power is channeled into them.

In stargate they do need to lower their shields, they had to do this in Atlantis Search and Rescue.
The Asgard Heimdal couldn't beam SG1 through Goauld shields when they wanted to rescue Thor.

As for the strength thing the same's so for Star Trek.

Anti-gravity is something that is known to be in real life and sci-fi.

I know this, but I was saying that the races in ST have such pieces of technology.

SG is more educational than ST.

How so?
SG's main form of propulsion isn't even considered possible using real science.
Warp drive has an actual theory based around it.
ST is responsible for inspiring people to make mobile phones (Original Series flip out communicator), music storage on a hard drive (Data uses the Enterprise D to play music stored on the ship's computers).
Star Trek showed many people that many different types of cultures could live together in peace, it pioneered the idea of people of different nationalities working together.

Stargate hasn't enhanced any of those same things.

That is exactly what I am asking the federation to build. Also if I remember correctly FTL is not hyperspace and I emphasis not.

So what, if a primative group of Humans (the Tauri) can make a hyperdrive engine, then it would be easy for a race with all of the knowledge and understanding of physics that any race with warp drive technology and the other things the Federation possesses.

If I remember correctly in which the episode in question they were in the gravitational field of the star however they were not directly in it but very close to it. Shields were failing and they hit a solar flare in which the ship was thrown 12 hours back in time.
BTW please give me the formula and I will confirm it with my teach on the 19th of July

I'm talking about when Destiny refuels, I don't think it's been stated exactly which part of the star Destiny goes into.
In the episode of Star Trek The Next Generation called Relics the Enterprise D is sitting just above the photosphere of an active star, it sits there for a couple of hours and could potentially be hit by multiple solar flares over that time, with only 20% shields.
I wasn't talking about the episode of Stargate Universe where the time travel incident happens when they try dialing Earth.
I also don't know what formula your talking about, I don't know about any formula.

yes thats what I was going to say. If you rewatch the episode Nemesis and watch it over and over again and thats what I have done also have put it on a time when Thor says it and put it into slow motion. Approx. 0.06x so 1 second of it would be 17 seconds in real life and I record it to make sure. I heard 1 Billion Joules per millisecond.

I have seen this episode multiple times, don't need to be told to watch it again thank you.
Even per millisecond people have already worked it out and it's not that impressive compared to the Enterprise D's fusion reactors.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I have to agree with darth through out the thread and my science teacher has confirmed the Beachhead to be a terraton explosion from what the visuals and dialogue say.

Beach Head cannot be a teraton level explosion since that would be in direct contradiction to what Carter states to be fact.
Visuals are subject to interpretation and are in no way accurate, they are put in for entertainment purposes and nothing else.
Cam states that the Mark 9 will vaporize everything within 100 miles, this can be achieved by a low level gigaton bomb as I have shown using real world examples of real nuclear bombs.
Saying that your science teacher has shown this and that means nothing here, it's like me saying kermet the frog says this is the truth so it must be so, it's not valid and doesn't end the debate just because you said that.

BTW I am still in Junior High School and Stargate is far more educational as well as more entertaining.

Stargate bases it's methods of propulsion off of ideas rather than real theories.
As I said before Star Trek is directly or indirectly reponsible for a number of advancements or inventions in real life, SG is not.
BTW what is and isn't more entertaining is never a fact, it's subjective and down to each individual who watches each show.
Personally I find both shows entertaining in different ways.

BTW if you haven't watched much of Star Trek and you've watched all of Stargate then you can't judge both equally.

How is that I get more marks for watching SG than ST.

Since Star Trek has been responsible for many developments in real world tech, it educates people about real world theories in a number of episodes, as well as throwing in concepts of morality and ways people can live in peace.
If anything you should get more marks for watching Star Trek.
Most of Stargate is about using Deus Ex Machina to finish off this enemy and that.
Hyperspace is an idea that isn't supported by real world physics.

An Alcubierre drive is an actual theory written by a real physicist.

I might set up a debate on neutral somewhere but its up to the challenger and the defender to decide. If it was me I would take Tau'ri position now someone has to take a race from ST. Here's the link http://www.convinceme.net/index.php to make an account or use your facebook.

I'm not just gonna debate in every website people decide to link in this thread.
As I PM'ed Darth Timon when I get the time I'll post on the debate website he's linked last time in this thread.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Can Federation ships sustain fire from 3 enemy ships for 2 hours and 8 minutes?
Because Destiny can.

Destiny's main cannon, with power dialed down 60% in the episode of SGU with the advanced city shows even that weapon isn't in the same league as ST weapons like phasers.
You can't even compare the two, it's like comparing a water pistol to a tank's cannon.

The reason no ST ship lasts hours (except maybe a Borg cube or species 8472 bio ship) is because the weapons are so high powered that we're seeing planet denting levels of firepower hitting the shields, per shot!
Destiny's taking meerely building destruct level firepower, you only need to compare what Destiny does to the blue alien ships with it's main weapon and look at what it does with a shot at the ground of the Human planet in season 2.
If Destiny was dealing out masses of firepower, then even on 40% it should level a city, 40% of uber should still be pretty uber.

You said that M/AM explosion is 46.54KT while if you set a Naquadah generator to overload it has been give by Mckay to be a 30MT explosion with a small tube of liquid Naquadah. And that it will take 30 seconds to overload and explode. That small tube with estimate to be around to be about 2 grams. -Shrugs- So is there anything more powerful?
(Ref Rising p1 &2)

I don't remember saying that.
BTW thekillman already said what a gram of Naquadah can do, remember Naquadah is very dense and a gram according to him would give 10kt of explosive yield.
Rodney never goes to detonate a Naquadah reactor in Rising part 1 or 2.

The capability is the amount of power channeled into their phase generator within the drone.
In terms of breaking hull it goes through hull several times before exploding. http://images.wikia.com/stargate/ima...1215465237.jpg

Drones are never stated to have phase generators.
There's nothing canon about that link and it doesn't mention such a piece of technology.
Drones do not have the same yields as photon torpedoes and they've never been stated to destroy a mountain with one squid or destroy 1600 meters deep by more than 3 meters wide volume of ground matter.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I like to point out some pro and cons in both series.

1. Stargate consoles DO NOT explode in you face when you under attack. In Stargate they use crystal technology which Star Trek probably haven't discovered. And they use normal wire conduits.
Star Trek consoles have plasma conduits under them and when you are under attack they explode in your face.

Are you kidding, sparks fly all of the time in SG, this must cause burns to people.
BTW serges around ST ships don't cause ST weapons to go offline, this happens all the time with the APBWs.

2. Stargate ships can transport people or objects when their shields are functional
and in Star Trek shields must be lowered to transport.

SG has to lower shields to transport people in exactly the same way, BTW ST has ablative hull armor, which can withstand planet denting firepower, which is shown by the Defiant taking hits from ships that can down ST shields, to do this requires the same level of firepower that's been shown to take out 30% of a planet's crust with a few shots from a small fleet in the Die Is Cast.

3. Stargate ships take damage after they lose shields and Star Trek ships start taking damage after one section of the shields fall below 50% they start taking damage to some systems.

The 304s take damage and lose APBWs before their shields drop this happens in The Last Man, against the Ori in battles, we even see bleed through happening in The Ark Of Truth.

4. Some Stargate ships are mind controlled such as the Puddle Jumpers and Ori motherships are also capable of doing that but must be a prior. Star Trek ships do not use mind control and have a limited control system by using LCARUS or something.

This is wrong, Star Trek has mind controlled ships, neural interfaces are in many episodes of voyager, there's an episode where Tom Paris restores a vessel that has a mind of it's own, but requires a pilot for control.

5.Star Trek ships are bounded to the MW and Stargate ships are not limited. It tkes the Daedalus about 3 weeks-4 weeks to get to the PG and about 3 days using a ZPM. Asgard ships take approx. 2 minutes to cross a galaxy and its void. Destiny takes just days to cross the void. But destiny is an exploratory ship and it takes about 3 years to cross a galaxy but the purpose of that is to collect info and record it. In Star Trek it takes approx. 70 years to do that or more.

ST has races that have some very fast FTL propulsion technologies, the Borg can deploy vessels anywhere within the Milky Way within minutes.
In Voyager there has been slipstream propulsion that can get a ship from one side of the galaxy to the other within 3 months using the first form of the technology Voyager comes into contact with, later this travel time is reduced to mere hours, but sensor and computer technology wasn't quite advanced enough to make it work safely.
There are races that have transwarp technology that can get a ship accross the galaxy within a few hours.
Some races like the Q can open portals and jump anywhere within a split second.
The point of all of this is that if we look at the speed it should mean that a group like the Federation shouldn't be bound to the Milky Way.

The simple fact that a race like the Tauri can duplicate hyperdrive technology without Asgard help means that it would be very easy for any race with basic 22nd century level physics understanding to copy the technology or even figure out how to create a hyperspace window by simply scanning the space where a window has been opened and then use their navigational deflector to open a hyperspace window on any ST ship.

6. Stargate seem to take more damage against some ships (simulation based) than Star Trek
According to a Destiny simulation the ship has still got hull breaches and still manage to hold for 45 minutes to jump into FTL.
Reference: Trial and Error
Reference on explosion of consoles: ST: Nemesis
Reference on the Daedalus speed: The Siege, Mckay and Mrs Miller
Reference on Asgard speed: Fragile Damage
Reference of Destiny speed: Gauntlet
Reference of Shield damage of ST: Nemesis

Destiny fires very weak weapons by ST standards as does pretty much every other SG race, ST ships withstand planet denting firepower, SG ships couldn't hope to do anything close to that.