Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships

[mad_gater]

Heres the most realistic ships anyway

1) Battlestar Galactica
2) Ships from starship troopers
3) Human ships from Halo
4) 304's/302's
5) Aurora's
6) Defiant class (Pretty much looks like a cross between Galactica and Daedalus anyway)
7) Serenity (As far as transport ships go)
8) Cardasian Galor class (St maybe with a different paint job and no phasor on the front)
Thats in my opinion anyway, theres probably a few im forgetting.

I'll add the Earth Alliance Omega class destroyers and Hyperion class heavy cruisers to the "earthy looking" ships list....I love those things....

[beamdanuke]

I believe the resourcefulness of the Trek captains far outstrips that of any stargate pilot and crew. However, the Ancient tech seems pretty unparalleled in terms of overall badassery. Tough call, indeed.

[Tetsujin]

Ok I'm getting tired of arguing about this but I want you to explain to me Tetsujin or anyone with besides "it may be different" why in 300 years or ever that the Federation will have the power to change/bend/brake the laws of physics(Scotty always tells Kirk "I can't change the laws of physics, Captn'") from what they are.Tell me was Newton debunked from his theory of gravity or Einstein for example E=mc^2 isn't just some number that he spouted he worked most of his life getting to that equation wining the Nobel prize and was demonstrated to be true and the energy gained transforming matter into energy doesn't miraculasly change over time its a constant, so explain to me how antimatter or antiduterium that with a canister sized container or a some modification to the photon torp can blow up a moon(death star style) or even crack it like you said before because both scenarios would take a sh.tload of antimatter to do (a hell of a lot more than you could find in a topr)

Yes Scotty said laws of physics. That doesnt necessarily mean that they are the exact same laws. I am not saying like I am completely certain that they arent either, I am only saying that in 300 years you can understand things much better if you over that time span fully apply yourself to advancing science and technology. You are thinking in the sense that what we understand now is how it is and is indisputable. Just because we have a way of doing something and it works for our current purposes and expericence doesnt mean that there isnt a more complicated usage that requires an even more intricate understanding. Sometimes that new purpose requires you to "debunk" what you had previously thought you understood. Im not saying Einstein wasnt brilliant in a somewhat incomprehensible way, im just saying that even he would have challenged his own theories after enough time had passed because that is the nature of science and advancement. Even if some of the theories didnt become out and out wrong some had to be at least modified or refined. This is further compounded when you are dealing with a people that cheat around the laws of physics. The warp drive is a HUGE cheat to go faster than the speed of light even though the laws of physics prohibit objects moving that fast.

I agree that it would take a crap load of antimatter, and should by no means be able to Death Star style blow up a planet. You have to wonder how much antimatter could be places in a torpedo though. 1.5kg is standard, but if you take out systems not needed for targeting a planet( most sensors, warp sustainer, major targeting systems, even propulsion for the most part because you can use the inertia passed from the ship the planet isnt gonna dodge) you could probably fit a lot more, and that should be enough to at least completely ef up the ecosystem of a planet and leave a very nice hole. Me personally though, tptal planetary destruction isnt my think and if I did do it I would just use a small shuttle and use autopilot to have it warp at the planet. Hundreds of times faster than the speed of light should do the trick to kill a planet. Kinda makes the Death Star Main gun kinda theatrical in practical use doesnt it, but they cant interact with the physical world while in hyperspace in SW and cant go near gravity wells while in hyperspace either so this approach wouldn't be possible for them or SG.
Warp drive may be slow but it has its uses.

and the 12.75 billion gigawatt power output is questionable like Memory Alpha said it would take burning 74 kg of both antimat and mat per second.

here a link http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_...se_(NCC-1701-D)

it would take more space than the enterprise has available and if ST doesn't have TARDIS tech or the antimatter used is 10000..0..00 times denser than lead which is nonsense.

Conclusion: you say that SG changes the naquadah yield a lot and I could give you examples like here: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Antimatter where the enterprise has only to 2 or 3 kg of anttimater and the self destruct would be 100MT and the Malon export vessel was stated that was transporting 4 trillion isotons of antimatter waste leaving out the fact that antimatter doesn't produce waste the 4 trillion figure is giberish as stated in the ST page http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Talk:Isoton I do have problems with the Isotons consistency figure let me quote someone that took the words out of my mouth

Ok just because a reactor has an uber high maximum rating doesnt mean that it runs that high all the time. If you arent running shields and weapons and powering warp travel why would you need to generate an obscene amount of excess power. The only constant would be the 1:1 ratio of M/AM but the actual amount must change depending on power requirements of that moment. Would you have your car in neutral and have it revving up constantly when you are just sitting in the driveway, or would you just let it idle?

Ok. A torpedo carries only 1.5 kg of M/AM. Subtract that yield from the total. Also remember that a self destruct system most likely sends all primary and secondary fusion generators to overload as well as the warp core.

In 2267, Science officer Spock calculated the explosive force of an overloaded Starship-class impulse engine to be 97.835 megatons. (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine")- http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Impulse_drive

So from this I would say that 100MT was a very low end estimate of that particular self destruct, because this isnt even counting backup generators and is just the overload of the impulse drive and its already pushing 100MT.

As for the Malon thing, even I think that figure was a little much but cant really disprove it now can I. You have to take into account that even in voyager they said that the malon M/AM systems were highly inefficient an offered to help upgrade them(they refused because that would obliterate their waste export industry and possibly ruin their economy). What I dont remember is how often that amount waste is accumulated and how much of their civilizations waste this large figure represents, nor how large their civilizations power requirements are. Also they said antimatter waste. That doesnt necessarily mean antimatter , but just the waste from using antimatter in a form of power generation I would assume. I mean technically even in a super clean fusion reaction "waste" technically could mean any byproduct that isnt used later, heck "waste" could be technically water(I am not saying the malon were transporting water, im just speaking hypothetically).

[Tetsujin]

I believe the resourcefulness of the Trek captains far outstrips that of any stargate pilot and crew. However, the Ancient tech seems pretty unparalleled in terms of overall badassery. Tough call, indeed.

I dont even wanna know how smart/determined you have to be to get through Starfleet Academy. They make it seem like it is ridiculously hard just to get considered to be accepted. Considering most officers have a very decent understanding of quantum physics and the like I dont really doubt it.

And yes, Ancient tech is pretty much unparalleled random badassedness. ZPMs are the coolest thing since sliced bread and everyone knows it.. lol Thats why I still think even totally off their game there is no way they should have lost to the Wraith. It had to be a simple decision that they were too powerful to have around regularly and had to die some kind of way. I honestly think they should have just cloned their bodies like the asgard to beat the virus and then stop cloning after the virus was eradicated as to not share the Asgards fate. At the very least fall back to the Milky Way build ships then come back and own the Wraith.

[mirdin1992]

And what have I learned from this thread NEVER,NEVER try to debate on versus threads especially ones with Star Trek in them. It so inconsistent that its inconsistency is consistent. With figures coming from characters mouths and not visual calc (where I get most of my sg cals and or suprisingly accurate if you rationalize them because characters shut up and don't say much besides Carter but O'Neill always shuts her up AGH!!) It gives me the impression that every episode is taped in AU universe that different physical laws apply, heck for all I know the Q are changing them between eps and maybe right in the middle of an episode.


SG consistency >>>>> ST consistency = Stargate wins

[Nemises]

The aurora would walk all over the enterprise.

[Tetsujin]

And what have I learned from this thread NEVER,NEVER try to debate on versus threads especially ones with Star Trek in them. It so inconsistent that its inconsistency is consistent. With figures coming from characters mouths and not visual calc (where I get most of my sg cals and or suprisingly accurate if you rationalize them because characters shut up and don't say much besides Carter but O'Neill always shuts her up AGH!!) It gives me the impression that every episode is taped in AU universe that different physical laws apply, heck for all I know the Q are changing them between eps and maybe right in the middle of an episode.


SG consistency >>>>> ST consistency = Stargate wins

Dont even start with consistancy. SG is not much better than St as far as being consistent is concerned. Or do I have to reiterate the ridiculous yields of weaponry growing 10 fold every other episode(exaggeration but still) SG can only SEEM consistant at times because naquadah isnt real so you cant really out an out dispite its physical qualities, but they do seem to amp it up quite a bit whenever they need to. In all relativity even if you throw this particular reasoning out you could say why in the heck you need to exaggerate anything else when you have a substance that can do practically ANYTHING you want it to. I know both series are inconstant at times, because the wraith beating the ancients was the biggest inconsistency of all time. As intelligent as the ancients where there isnt a snowballs chance in hell they lost to the wraith or got killed of by some random virus especially when they have nanotechnology which can pretty much defeat any pure biological ailment. Oh even better when the Asurans kill switch was turned of and they wouldnt fight the wraith, why didnt the Ancients just use them as construction workers instead? tireless workers in a war of attrition hmmm good idea maybe?

Its also extremely inconstant that the genetic problem killed the Asgard. If you are cloning yourself and making copies of copies for thousands of years yes it would be a problem. Bets to question why you would make a copy of a copy and not just keep an original genetic template when you make a new clone for each Asgard. You saying the Asgard arent smart enough to think about keeping records whist mass cloning for thousands of years. I would say these are some pretty big screw ups for the sake of story so speak nothing of ST and its random radiation and power requirements here and there.

And some random ancient could be willing naquadah into the uber state that it is in as well if you wanna go there.

To Nemesis:

Yes the Aurora would more than likely beat the enterprise, especially if it was powered by a zpm. We have already established that Lantean tech is boss so lets move on shall we. Although I do have to say that the Lanteans make some pretty ugly ships. Powerful, but butt ugly in my opinion. In a beauty contest the Enterprise A-E win. Especially E because Sovereign class ships are just sexy lookin. hahaha

[mirdin1992]

Tesujin 1on't star IMO SG is a heck of a lot more consistent at least more ambiguous than ST that state yield, numbers and calcs that make no sense and some blatantly contradict themeselves heck even the stardates sometimes go down what the heck would I suppose to believe that time ran in reverse and a photon torpedo that is a little more than 64 MT max yield and add a coke can of super antimatter(stupid, stupid don't make me start how stupid this is) is upgraded to moon busting thats Godzilla scaling right there and don't dispute this you know its true.

2) For all you know they could be mesing with their own genome to increase their intelligence and add some other things and they were cloning for what....40.000 years how long have those Feds that Picard saved with adding the irish people 30-40 100-200 and would have died in a couple generations.

3)the Enterprise is a little better tan a flying saucer with two pillons attached to it and has no practical design(except that for warp dinamics or something) and always liked the Defiant more, IMO those glowy cylinders were too much of a big fat bulls eye to me.

4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there

[Tetsujin]

Tesujin 1on't star IMO SG is a heck of a lot more consistent at least more ambiguous than ST that state yield, numbers and calcs that make no sense and some blatantly contradict themeselves heck even the stardates sometimes go down what the heck would I suppose to believe that time ran in reverse and a photon torpedo that is a little more than 64 MT max yield and add a coke can of super antimatter(stupid, stupid don't make me start how stupid this is) is upgraded to moon busting thats Godzilla scaling right there and don't dispute this you know its true.

2) For all you know they could be mesing with their own genome to increase their intelligence and add some other things and they were cloning for what....40.000 years how long have those Feds that Picard saved with adding the irish people 30-40 100-200 and would have died in a couple generations.

3)the Enterprise is a little better tan a flying saucer with two pillons attached to it and has no practical design(except that for warp dinamics or something) and always liked the Defiant more, IMO those glowy cylinders were too much of a big fat bulls eye to me.

4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there

No. Like I said SG can get away with more simply because they dont have to explain anything nor do they really try to in most occasions. Time travel....Oh umm ancient tech. How does it work. Umm the ancients built it. That is pretty much the majority of technological explanation in SG. ST actually has tech manuals and tries to explain things out because thats what people wanted. Stuff gets inconsistant because from TOS to VOY real world understanding of physics grew so some things had to be changed to make at least some sense sense. Other things are just writers not being physicists and being just what they are...Writers. I do think there should be like one physicist or someone like that on staff to proof read what they write. Other stuff could simply be the actors saying it wrong and not wanting to waste money doing another take for a missed figure no average person is gonna notice anyway.

Ok even I admitted the blowing up of a moon was ridiculous if they meant total annihilation. There are possibilities that the coke can sized thing was just all they showed on screen or something but iono its still quite a stretch unless we are talking a really small moon(remember moon is a technical term of status not necessarily size)

Why are you complaining about stardates. If a fake calendar system. It doesnt even really go by days. How about you go to memory alpha and read about stardates then complain about what you feel they dont explain properly because some aspects of why dates that dont correlate are explained. Its a freaking calendar system they made up to seem futuristic some of the numbers are even just what season of the show they are on for goodness sakes.

DUDE. when you change a file on your computer that could potentially screw something up, what do you do? MAKE A BACKUP FIRST. I dont care how much they messed with their genetics if they have a template to construct a clone that is far closer to their original genetic code why cant they transfer themselves into it? At the very least they could digitize themselves because they arent able to ascend anyway and dont procreate sooooo. And dont say the computers cant handle it because they could make an asgard brain the cpu and just interface it with standard computing technology.

Where would practical design have to do with anything? Does it need aerodynamics(its in space), does it need a super thick hull(it has structural integrity fields and shields). Practical means dealing with the most amount of pertinent issues in the most efficient way, so whocares if they solve their problems and throw in some needless aesthetics? If we were talking real world its design would be totally crap, but we arent. If we had these technologies our approach to ship design would be different. The warp nacelles are kinda out there but at the same time that is for radiation prevention and warp field dynamics. When it came to a practical WARSHIP they designed things a little different ie the defiant class you seem to like.

I will give some wins to the Lantean ships, the Ori. Anything less than that and it would be a fight to the finish. The most powerful weapons they have besides those ships weapons is the Asgard plasma beam weapons and I think a phaser especially a type XII matches or exceeds them. Nukes dont even come into question imo because SG has no delivery system that could hit a smaller ST ship without being at a range that would kill them too in the ensuing explosion.
Im talking without using ZPMs obviously because that was a plot workaround to allow the Odyssey and Daedalus to do miraculous things. Im saying each species sticks to their own tech, which is nice since im still letting the Tau'ri keep all the Asgard tech to stay in the running.
I wonder if temporal shielding works against time dilation devices?

Question: are we talking about anything in the future? Say counting time-ships and armor, stealth, and transphasic torpedoes from the VOY finale? Or even the technology from the Scimitar. I havent been counting them so let me know if they are in play or not.

[a6346]

4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there

I would prefer Enterprise E, It might be slower but damn its nice to ride around in style and comfort in a cruise ship with good defences and good all round tech than a warship with bunk beds that has little in the way of comfort and places to WOW and great dignateries.

You got to admit It the Enterprise is far more impressive than Oddysey because when you step on it you feel like the floor would be more comfortable than the beds on Oddysey. Also if you want to find out anythink about a planet your near just head on down to astrometrics and you'll know everything you want to.

Enterprise: +=stars
Exterior design +++++
Interior design +++++
Speed ++
Weapons+++
Versatility +++++
Impressiveness +++++

Oddysey:
Exterior design ++
Interior design +
Speed +++++
Weaponds +++++
Versatility +++
Impressiveness ++++

Enterprise is a better STAR SHIP but Oddysey is a better WARSHIP <Thats the diffference Enterprise is supposed to wow dignateries and VIP's and put up a fight when needed. Oddysey is just a heavily armed warship with minimal else in the way of creature comforts.

[monaroCountry]

Sorry for opening up an old thread but Ive recently re watched an episode of Star Trek "The Q and the Grey". My opinion has now changed and think that Voyager has got a far better shielding than what I previously expected. The ship was able to survive 3 super nova blast. After some modification as instructed by a Q, they were able to boost up shield power to withstand another super nova blast at point blank range. I have never seen this happen in a sci fi space going vessle.

Also the cloaking device seems to be vastly superior, specifically interphase cloak which "rendered a starship invisible, but also allowed it to pass through solid matter unimpeded".

Finally the drone is a great weapon against shielded ships but Star Trek also has these types of weapons, specifically Phased plasma torpedoes and Transphasic torpedoes.

[General Jumper One]

Stargate ships are more realistic and I like them better!!!

[Betelgeuze]

I also think that the Federation ships are superior to the Earth ships in everything but speed.

The crew of the Federation ships are also more capable than those on the Earth ships. They all have a much better understanding of how their technology actually works than the crew on the Earth ships.

[bassman2914]

I think that no matter how many federation ships they bring to stargate earth, if the Deadalus were there to take out the torpedoes and they had a full complement of drones in the antarctic base...none of those startrek ships would make it out of there alive. If the o'neil wasn't destroyed, that could probably take out an entire trek fleet. That would be one awesome episode.

[malfunction]

The key argument in this debate is power generation, the ships in Stargate are capable of generated more power than any ship in Star Trek. The speeds that Asgard, Ancient and Ori ships can reach is paralleled by the power of their shields and weapons.

Star Trek is only a few hundred years into the future, (I forget the exact year, it's been so long since I've watched it in detail.) The knowledge of any one race in Star Trek is limited. The Asgard can do pretty much anything they want in terms of technology, where as the Ori and the Ancients could do anything scientifically possible.

I would say that the Ori and Ancients would defeat any race in Star Trek without any damage to their ships, the Asgard would also beat any race in Star Trek but their shields will be partially weakened in a battle. With the power of the APBW's no Star Trek race could touch Earth, but without this advantage the battle would be far even. As for the Goa'uld I think they would also defeat any Star Trek race but it would be a more even battle.

The Wraith is a difficult question. I'm not sure exactly how destructive Star Trek's quantum torpedoes are. Wraith ships are vulnerable to nuclear weapons, in 'No Man's Land' a Hive was severely damaged by a mark 3 tactical nuclear weapon, so a gatebuster would most likely destroy a Hive ship. If quantum torpedoes are comparable to tactical nuclear weapons the Star Trek races would win.