Originally posted by a6346
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Star Trek Ships vs. Stargate Ships
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Originally posted by mirdin1992 View PostOk I'm getting tired of arguing about this but I want you to explain to me Tetsujin or anyone with besides "it may be different" why in 300 years or ever that the Federation will have the power to change/bend/brake the laws of physics(Scotty always tells Kirk "I can't change the laws of physics, Captn'") from what they are.Tell me was Newton debunked from his theory of gravity or Einstein for example E=mc^2 isn't just some number that he spouted he worked most of his life getting to that equation wining the Nobel prize and was demonstrated to be true and the energy gained transforming matter into energy doesn't miraculasly change over time its a constant, so explain to me how antimatter or antiduterium that with a canister sized container or a some modification to the photon torp can blow up a moon(death star style) or even crack it like you said before because both scenarios would take a sh.tload of antimatter to do (a hell of a lot more than you could find in a topr)
I agree that it would take a crap load of antimatter, and should by no means be able to Death Star style blow up a planet. You have to wonder how much antimatter could be places in a torpedo though. 1.5kg is standard, but if you take out systems not needed for targeting a planet( most sensors, warp sustainer, major targeting systems, even propulsion for the most part because you can use the inertia passed from the ship the planet isnt gonna dodge) you could probably fit a lot more, and that should be enough to at least completely ef up the ecosystem of a planet and leave a very nice hole. Me personally though, tptal planetary destruction isnt my think and if I did do it I would just use a small shuttle and use autopilot to have it warp at the planet. Hundreds of times faster than the speed of light should do the trick to kill a planet. Kinda makes the Death Star Main gun kinda theatrical in practical use doesnt it, but they cant interact with the physical world while in hyperspace in SW and cant go near gravity wells while in hyperspace either so this approach wouldn't be possible for them or SG.
Warp drive may be slow but it has its uses.
Originally posted by mirdin1992 View Postand the 12.75 billion gigawatt power output is questionable like Memory Alpha said it would take burning 74 kg of both antimat and mat per second.
here a link http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/USS_...se_(NCC-1701-D)
it would take more space than the enterprise has available and if ST doesn't have TARDIS tech or the antimatter used is 10000..0..00 times denser than lead which is nonsense.
Conclusion: you say that SG changes the naquadah yield a lot and I could give you examples like here: http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Antimatter where the enterprise has only to 2 or 3 kg of anttimater and the self destruct would be 100MT and the Malon export vessel was stated that was transporting 4 trillion isotons of antimatter waste leaving out the fact that antimatter doesn't produce waste the 4 trillion figure is giberish as stated in the ST page http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Talk:Isoton I do have problems with the Isotons consistency figure let me quote someone that took the words out of my mouth
Ok. A torpedo carries only 1.5 kg of M/AM. Subtract that yield from the total. Also remember that a self destruct system most likely sends all primary and secondary fusion generators to overload as well as the warp core.
In 2267, Science officer Spock calculated the explosive force of an overloaded Starship-class impulse engine to be 97.835 megatons. (TOS: "The Doomsday Machine")- http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Impulse_drive
So from this I would say that 100MT was a very low end estimate of that particular self destruct, because this isnt even counting backup generators and is just the overload of the impulse drive and its already pushing 100MT.
As for the Malon thing, even I think that figure was a little much but cant really disprove it now can I. You have to take into account that even in voyager they said that the malon M/AM systems were highly inefficient an offered to help upgrade them(they refused because that would obliterate their waste export industry and possibly ruin their economy). What I dont remember is how often that amount waste is accumulated and how much of their civilizations waste this large figure represents, nor how large their civilizations power requirements are. Also they said antimatter waste. That doesnt necessarily mean antimatter , but just the waste from using antimatter in a form of power generation I would assume. I mean technically even in a super clean fusion reaction "waste" technically could mean any byproduct that isnt used later, heck "waste" could be technically water(I am not saying the malon were transporting water, im just speaking hypothetically).Knowledge is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.
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Originally posted by beamdanuke View PostI believe the resourcefulness of the Trek captains far outstrips that of any stargate pilot and crew. However, the Ancient tech seems pretty unparalleled in terms of overall badassery. Tough call, indeed.
And yes, Ancient tech is pretty much unparalleled random badassedness. ZPMs are the coolest thing since sliced bread and everyone knows it.. lol Thats why I still think even totally off their game there is no way they should have lost to the Wraith. It had to be a simple decision that they were too powerful to have around regularly and had to die some kind of way. I honestly think they should have just cloned their bodies like the asgard to beat the virus and then stop cloning after the virus was eradicated as to not share the Asgards fate. At the very least fall back to the Milky Way build ships then come back and own the Wraith.Knowledge is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.
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And what have I learned from this thread NEVER,NEVER try to debate on versus threads especially ones with Star Trek in them. It so inconsistent that its inconsistency is consistent. With figures coming from characters mouths and not visual calc (where I get most of my sg cals and or suprisingly accurate if you rationalize them because characters shut up and don't say much besides Carter but O'Neill always shuts her up AGH!!) It gives me the impression that every episode is taped in AU universe that different physical laws apply, heck for all I know the Q are changing them between eps and maybe right in the middle of an episode.
SG consistency >>>>> ST consistency = Stargate wins
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Originally posted by mirdin1992 View PostAnd what have I learned from this thread NEVER,NEVER try to debate on versus threads especially ones with Star Trek in them. It so inconsistent that its inconsistency is consistent. With figures coming from characters mouths and not visual calc (where I get most of my sg cals and or suprisingly accurate if you rationalize them because characters shut up and don't say much besides Carter but O'Neill always shuts her up AGH!!) It gives me the impression that every episode is taped in AU universe that different physical laws apply, heck for all I know the Q are changing them between eps and maybe right in the middle of an episode.
SG consistency >>>>> ST consistency = Stargate wins
Its also extremely inconstant that the genetic problem killed the Asgard. If you are cloning yourself and making copies of copies for thousands of years yes it would be a problem. Bets to question why you would make a copy of a copy and not just keep an original genetic template when you make a new clone for each Asgard. You saying the Asgard arent smart enough to think about keeping records whist mass cloning for thousands of years. I would say these are some pretty big screw ups for the sake of story so speak nothing of ST and its random radiation and power requirements here and there.
And some random ancient could be willing naquadah into the uber state that it is in as well if you wanna go there.
To Nemesis:
Yes the Aurora would more than likely beat the enterprise, especially if it was powered by a zpm. We have already established that Lantean tech is boss so lets move on shall we. Although I do have to say that the Lanteans make some pretty ugly ships. Powerful, but butt ugly in my opinion. In a beauty contest the Enterprise A-E win. Especially E because Sovereign class ships are just sexy lookin. hahahaKnowledge is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.
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Tesujin 1on't star IMO SG is a heck of a lot more consistent at least more ambiguous than ST that state yield, numbers and calcs that make no sense and some blatantly contradict themeselves heck even the stardates sometimes go down what the heck would I suppose to believe that time ran in reverse and a photon torpedo that is a little more than 64 MT max yield and add a coke can of super antimatter(stupid, stupid don't make me start how stupid this is) is upgraded to moon busting thats Godzilla scaling right there and don't dispute this you know its true.
2) For all you know they could be mesing with their own genome to increase their intelligence and add some other things and they were cloning for what....40.000 years how long have those Feds that Picard saved with adding the irish people 30-40 100-200 and would have died in a couple generations.
3)the Enterprise is a little better tan a flying saucer with two pillons attached to it and has no practical design(except that for warp dinamics or something) and always liked the Defiant more, IMO those glowy cylinders were too much of a big fat bulls eye to me.
4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there
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Originally posted by mirdin1992 View PostTesujin 1on't star IMO SG is a heck of a lot more consistent at least more ambiguous than ST that state yield, numbers and calcs that make no sense and some blatantly contradict themeselves heck even the stardates sometimes go down what the heck would I suppose to believe that time ran in reverse and a photon torpedo that is a little more than 64 MT max yield and add a coke can of super antimatter(stupid, stupid don't make me start how stupid this is) is upgraded to moon busting thats Godzilla scaling right there and don't dispute this you know its true.
2) For all you know they could be mesing with their own genome to increase their intelligence and add some other things and they were cloning for what....40.000 years how long have those Feds that Picard saved with adding the irish people 30-40 100-200 and would have died in a couple generations.
3)the Enterprise is a little better tan a flying saucer with two pillons attached to it and has no practical design(except that for warp dinamics or something) and always liked the Defiant more, IMO those glowy cylinders were too much of a big fat bulls eye to me.
4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there
Ok even I admitted the blowing up of a moon was ridiculous if they meant total annihilation. There are possibilities that the coke can sized thing was just all they showed on screen or something but iono its still quite a stretch unless we are talking a really small moon(remember moon is a technical term of status not necessarily size)
Why are you complaining about stardates. If a fake calendar system. It doesnt even really go by days. How about you go to memory alpha and read about stardates then complain about what you feel they dont explain properly because some aspects of why dates that dont correlate are explained. Its a freaking calendar system they made up to seem futuristic some of the numbers are even just what season of the show they are on for goodness sakes.
DUDE. when you change a file on your computer that could potentially screw something up, what do you do? MAKE A BACKUP FIRST. I dont care how much they messed with their genetics if they have a template to construct a clone that is far closer to their original genetic code why cant they transfer themselves into it? At the very least they could digitize themselves because they arent able to ascend anyway and dont procreate sooooo. And dont say the computers cant handle it because they could make an asgard brain the cpu and just interface it with standard computing technology.
Where would practical design have to do with anything? Does it need aerodynamics(its in space), does it need a super thick hull(it has structural integrity fields and shields). Practical means dealing with the most amount of pertinent issues in the most efficient way, so whocares if they solve their problems and throw in some needless aesthetics? If we were talking real world its design would be totally crap, but we arent. If we had these technologies our approach to ship design would be different. The warp nacelles are kinda out there but at the same time that is for radiation prevention and warp field dynamics. When it came to a practical WARSHIP they designed things a little different ie the defiant class you seem to like.
I will give some wins to the Lantean ships, the Ori. Anything less than that and it would be a fight to the finish. The most powerful weapons they have besides those ships weapons is the Asgard plasma beam weapons and I think a phaser especially a type XII matches or exceeds them. Nukes dont even come into question imo because SG has no delivery system that could hit a smaller ST ship without being at a range that would kill them too in the ensuing explosion.
Im talking without using ZPMs obviously because that was a plot workaround to allow the Odyssey and Daedalus to do miraculous things. Im saying each species sticks to their own tech, which is nice since im still letting the Tau'ri keep all the Asgard tech to stay in the running.
I wonder if temporal shielding works against time dilation devices?
Question: are we talking about anything in the future? Say counting time-ships and armor, stealth, and transphasic torpedoes from the VOY finale? Or even the technology from the Scimitar. I havent been counting them so let me know if they are in play or not.Knowledge is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.
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Originally posted by mirdin1992 View Post4)I would take any SG ship above ST ship. Give me the Unending Odysey and bye, bye Unimatrix and all the borg there
You got to admit It the Enterprise is far more impressive than Oddysey because when you step on it you feel like the floor would be more comfortable than the beds on Oddysey. Also if you want to find out anythink about a planet your near just head on down to astrometrics and you'll know everything you want to.
Enterprise: +=stars
Exterior design +++++
Interior design +++++
Speed ++
Weapons+++
Versatility +++++
Impressiveness +++++
Oddysey:
Exterior design ++
Interior design +
Speed +++++
Weaponds +++++
Versatility +++
Impressiveness ++++
Enterprise is a better STAR SHIP but Oddysey is a better WARSHIP <Thats the diffference Enterprise is supposed to wow dignateries and VIP's and put up a fight when needed. Oddysey is just a heavily armed warship with minimal else in the way of creature comforts.if it wasnt for Carters new plot shield we would be dead
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Sorry for opening up an old thread but Ive recently re watched an episode of Star Trek "The Q and the Grey". My opinion has now changed and think that Voyager has got a far better shielding than what I previously expected. The ship was able to survive 3 super nova blast. After some modification as instructed by a Q, they were able to boost up shield power to withstand another super nova blast at point blank range. I have never seen this happen in a sci fi space going vessle.
Also the cloaking device seems to be vastly superior, specifically interphase cloak which "rendered a starship invisible, but also allowed it to pass through solid matter unimpeded".
Finally the drone is a great weapon against shielded ships but Star Trek also has these types of weapons, specifically Phased plasma torpedoes and Transphasic torpedoes.
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I also think that the Federation ships are superior to the Earth ships in everything but speed.
The crew of the Federation ships are also more capable than those on the Earth ships. They all have a much better understanding of how their technology actually works than the crew on the Earth ships.
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I think that no matter how many federation ships they bring to stargate earth, if the Deadalus were there to take out the torpedoes and they had a full complement of drones in the antarctic base...none of those startrek ships would make it out of there alive. If the o'neil wasn't destroyed, that could probably take out an entire trek fleet. That would be one awesome episode.
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The key argument in this debate is power generation, the ships in Stargate are capable of generated more power than any ship in Star Trek. The speeds that Asgard, Ancient and Ori ships can reach is paralleled by the power of their shields and weapons.
Star Trek is only a few hundred years into the future, (I forget the exact year, it's been so long since I've watched it in detail.) The knowledge of any one race in Star Trek is limited. The Asgard can do pretty much anything they want in terms of technology, where as the Ori and the Ancients could do anything scientifically possible.
I would say that the Ori and Ancients would defeat any race in Star Trek without any damage to their ships, the Asgard would also beat any race in Star Trek but their shields will be partially weakened in a battle. With the power of the APBW's no Star Trek race could touch Earth, but without this advantage the battle would be far even. As for the Goa'uld I think they would also defeat any Star Trek race but it would be a more even battle.
The Wraith is a difficult question. I'm not sure exactly how destructive Star Trek's quantum torpedoes are. Wraith ships are vulnerable to nuclear weapons, in 'No Man's Land' a Hive was severely damaged by a mark 3 tactical nuclear weapon, so a gatebuster would most likely destroy a Hive ship. If quantum torpedoes are comparable to tactical nuclear weapons the Star Trek races would win.Does it say Colonel anywhere on my uniform?
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