INTERVIEW: Martin Gero (Writer)

[Darren]

I wonder if there isn't a tendency on the part of some here to read their own concerns over TPTB into how Martin approached one or two particular questions. I don't think he was being dismissive of constructive criticism, passing it off as "those fans just don't like the character I'm choosing to feature in this particular episode." Rather, it struck me as simply a logical statement of fact:

A) Martin writes a good deal of McKay-centric episodes.

B) Many fans don't like McKay-centric episodes.

C) Therefore, because of A+B, those fans will be a harder sell on those episodes.

Nothing at all wrong with that. He's not saying that there's no such thing as valuable criticism, or that non-McKay fans really have nothing to say to him.

Perhaps the distinction is that some fans here are evaluating the situtation from their own chair: I'm the sort of fan he's talking about, he's being dismissive of me, therefore he's being dismissive of all fans. Martin, on the other hand, sees "the fans" as a variegated group of millions of different people with many different preferences and pleasures. He's just playing the numbers by saying that X percent of fans will be more likely to enjoy McKay-centric episodes.

[ShadowMaat]

You could see that in the interview, yes. But I think it's worth bearing in mind that he's trying to give concise and interesting answers to questions he's only just heard.

I did say that I understand that he could very well know that it isn't JUST that, but since I can't read his mind, I can't figure out what else he might have meant and I can't really respond to what he didn't say. What he chose to say in the interview, however, didn't come across as terribly friendly. Maybe he did mean it as a joke- I don't have any visual cues to go by and David has regrettably not transliterated any smilies to help. Martin's one of my favorite PTB, but reading that phrase for the first time ("I don't pay a lot of attention to it when they don't like an episode") kinda shocked me. On reflection, and knowing that Martin seems to be kind of a jokey guy (at least on stage and on the tour), it's quite possible that he DID intend that as a joke- or at least a half-joke. I hope so, anyway.

Do I expect Martin or any of them to put up with all the "negativity"? No, not when it's phrased like that. But I like to think that they're at least open to the concept of constructive criticism. Not everything is a personal attack against them and while I'm not saying they should obey every suggestion made by every fan who's ever expressed a grievance, I don't think it could hurt to see what some of the more common gripes are and to see if the complaints/criticisms have any merit... or if it's just fans blowing off steam.

They do seem to have picked up on the idea that fans want more character development. I take that as a good sign. I just hope they choose to rectify it in a way that many (but obviously not all) fans will find acceptable.

[Willow'sCat]

Yeah, i love rod, i really do. he's a great character....but the OTT screaming/whining/complaining....a little goes a long, long way. Let zelenka melt down every once in a while

Well exactly, a little overreacting from McKay goes a long long way. I am the first to say, less is more when dealing with the McKay centric eps, and again more screen time doesn't add up to more quality or development.

I personally didn't see his comments as dismissive, I think he like a lot of writers in TV he has to account to one person or group of people and they are not the fans.

If you want to change the show at all you know the real power lays with the Producers and the Executives, as far as I know they make the final decisions (at least before it gets to SciFi/MGM/Sony) I listened to the commentaries for "Duet" and they talk

Spoiler:

about the kiss, they said it was almost cut out because of higher up concerns (paraphrasing) now that should tell you that the Director/writers and the actors have very little real power in what finally goes to air.

[Verity5]

Let me start by saying that Stargate Atlantis is my favorite show. I am really agravated that it has been jerked off Sci Fi channel after they said it would be on every Monday in May. This does not mean I do not have concerns about the direction the show took this year.

Season 2 has been disappointing. I can see that Mr. Gero is clearly enthusiastic about his job, but as someone above pointed out quantity does not guarantee quality. Dr. McKay (as Gall pointed out) was evolving and growing in season one into a more rounded person. But this season, he has been reduced to a whining egotist. To have an actor of Mr Hewlett's talent to be reduced to scenery chewing is upsetting, yes, but no better use is made of the rest of the cast, fine actors all.

Teyla & Dr. Weir who are supposed to be strong leaders are in effect window dressing.

Ronon is put on the team without any input from anyone other than Sheppard and is immediately one of the gang?

Dr. Beckett is turning into Dr. Mengele (OK, so it's like the Allies experimenting on the Nazis, still not right). Wouldn't investigating why the Wraith cannot feed on Ronan, and developing a preventive gene therapy be a much more fruitful way to spend his time?

Sheppard and McKay's interaction consists of Sheppard yelling and McKay not acting like the Chief of Science. Would Zelenka have respect for this version of McKay? In fact McKay must have taken stupid pills all season. One week he realizes that starting the sequence to fire the city's engines will overload Atlantis's ZPM, yet Sheppard has to tell him how to drain the almost depleted ZPM in the Tower by the same method. Not to mention the supposed hypochondriac taking a massive OD of enzyme, and bouncing back immediately without even being tired?

And poor Sheppard is still the one-dimensional hero. Another waste of a good actor. I mean, marketing him as a "babe magnet". Hit us over the head with the bleeding obvious one more time.

There is still so much of the city that is yet to be explored. Zelenka is someone else that one wants to know more about. What's going on with the Athosians? Surely there are many interesting things on the mainland to be found!

All is, of course, IMHO.

I agree that this season will make or break this show. I do so want it to go on for a long time.

V5

[Linzi]

I wonder if there isn't a tendency on the part of some here to read their own concerns over TPTB into how Martin approached one or two particular questions. I don't think he was being dismissive of constructive criticism, passing it off as "those fans just don't like the character I'm choosing to feature in this particular episode." Rather, it struck me as simply a logical statement of fact:

A) Martin writes a good deal of McKay-centric episodes.

B) Many fans don't like McKay-centric episodes.

C) Therefore, because of A+B, those fans will be a harder sell on those episodes.

Nothing at all wrong with that. He's not saying that there's no such thing as valuable criticism, or that non-McKay fans really have nothing to say to him.

Perhaps the distinction is that some fans here are evaluating the situtation from their own chair: I'm the sort of fan he's talking about, he's being dismissive of me, therefore he's being dismissive of all fans. Martin, on the other hand, sees "the fans" as a variegated group of millions of different people with many different preferences and pleasures. He's just playing the numbers by saying that X percent of fans will be more likely to enjoy McKay-centric episodes.

Interesting analysis. Thank you.

I personally didn't find anything to be high-handed or offensive in Mr Gero's interview. I just feel he needs to spread the love a little more! (As in, 'Hello, there are other characters and actors on SGA, you could talk about them too! Or, hang on, you could write episodes that centre around one of them, even.') After all, surely a talented writer such as Mr Gero could write easily for other characters in the same fond way he does for McKay?

Two questions come to mind though.

Could it possibly be that some fans don't like SOME McKay centric episodes because they're actually not well as well written as some of Mr. Gero's other episodes? That's certainly true for me. Some are the best episodes I've seen : The Storm, The Eye. The Brotherhood and GUP certainly fall into the not so good category for me. The fact that they're McKay centric is irrelevent. To assume that a fan doesn't like an episode just because they're not a big McKay fan, (which I actually am), and that no matter what you write, said fan won't like it, is a little narrow minded. If that 's what Mr. Gero meant here.

Also, if 'Many fans don't like McKay-centric episodes', why the heck are there so many then?

Just a thought.

[Skydiver]

But this season, he has been reduced to a whining egotist. To have an actor of Mr Hewlett's talent to be reduced to scenery chewing is upsetting, yes, but no better use is made of the rest of the cast, fine actors all.

yes, Ranting Rod is annoying, at least to me. A little bit goes a very long way.

Teyla & Dr. Weir who are supposed to be strong leaders are in effect window dressing.

Ronon is put on the team without any input from anyone other than Sheppard and is immediately one of the gang?

Dr. Beckett is turning into Dr. Mengele (OK, so it's like the Allies experimenting on the Nazis, still not right). Wouldn't investigating why the Wraith cannot feed on Ronan, and developing a preventive gene therapy be a much more fruitful way to spend his time?

Sheppard and McKay's interaction consists of Sheppard yelling and McKay not acting like the Chief of Science.

<snip>
And poor Sheppard is still the one-dimensional hero. Another waste of a good actor. I mean, marketing him as a "babe magnet". Hit us over the head with the bleeding obvious one more time.

There is still so much of the city that is yet to be explored. Zelenka is someone else that one wants to know more about. What's going on with the Athosians? Surely there are many interesting things on the mainland to be found!

All is, of course, IMHO.

I agree that this season will make or break this show. I do so want it to go on for a long time.

V5

i agree as well.

Atlantis has a good foundation. The pieces are all there. But, imho, the survival and appeal of the show will have less to do with how cool and mean the villian is than it does whether or not we give a fig about any of the characters surviving.

right now??? I have zero emotional attachment to any of them. So i just watch the show...and i think the only characters i worry about are lorne and zelenka because i know that they may get killed off while anyone whose name is in the opening titles is immune.

[Ouroboros]

There's also this that hasn't been posted yet.

mean, I don't feel like I've had any flat-out failures, I don't think there've been episodes where people were like, "This is terrible!" Everyone seemed to really like "Duet," and some people really didn't like "Lost Boys," for instance. And I agree with both of them as to why they don't like or do like episodes. But at the end of the day my job is to impress Mr. Brad Wright, and as long as Mr. Brad Wright is happy with the work that I am doing, and we don't feel that we are losing people over the episodes that I'm writing then, you know ...

That concerns me because taken in context with the other statements it creates the impression of.

"I only do what I have to to keep the boss happy. If anyone in the actual audience doesn't like what I'm doing I don't really need to care about it because they don't have any power over me."

It seems to me that were I an entertainer I would want to know why people in my audience were not being entertained were that the case.

Now it's true that not every audience objection is going to be one that is rational or merits legitimate consideration, and some of them do need to be dismissed as petty fan craziness I agree. The Gero interview here however makes little distinction between which audience concerns are valid and which are not. Indeed from my impression it seems to read that the ONLY valid concerns come from within the writing room's chain of command itself and that outside audience concerns are wholelly unimportant until such point as the boss potentially voices the same concerns, when they'll all of a sudden be legitimized despite the fact that the only thing that changed was the speaker.

In other words it seems like they're convinced what they're doing is just awesome and the only people that are going to be able to convince them that certain things could perhaps be done better is them themselves. Since they don't see any legitimate flaws though, and they're unwilling to listen to anyone outside who does, the flaws will never be adressed because from their perspective there are no real legitimate flaws, just disgruntled fans and subjective opinions that can and should be ignored.

It's the almost text book behavior of a group of writers who won't take constructive critacism because they don't think anyone else is really qualified, entitled or capable of criticising their works.

It's not "bad" it's just "different" or you just don't "get it". IE the critics are just simply wrong.

[Madeleine]

I'm just dying for the time that a writer says in an interview "yes, I listen to what fans say and if they don't like something I change it".

Cue howls of outrage because *some* fans didn't like that writer's last ep, but some fans *did* and they are dismayed that what they liked will be changed because other people didn't like it. Cue massive scraps in fandom because Group N are fearful that the Writer may be listening to Group M and everyone tries to howl louder and louder in case their one little howling voice is the voice that tips the balance over between Group N and Group M. Cus catty remarks of "well if he's taking his writing ideas from fans why not sack him and let fanfic writers do his job". And of course there'll be people ready to quote him as saying things he never said or contort his words until they fit the worst possible pattern, so that the Writer is forever labelled as "the one who said 'I let some random ranting fans tell me what to write cos I can't think for myself'".

TPTB have been roasted for every interview they've done, since long before I was around. No good deed ever goes unpunished.

[Piratejenna]

A different take on this... I think the writers are listening WAY too much to the fans.

Back in the mid-90s, TV producers on both the entertainment and the TV news side of the job embraced the Internet because they thought it would give them a direct conduit into the minds of the audience. Since then, most professionals realise that the Internet is not a democratic medium which gives every voice an equal say - it's actually a megaphone for the most passionate factions who tend to drown out more moderate voices. That's true whether we're talking fandom or Middle East politics. In which case, the responsible thing to do is revert to the old values. If your job is entertainment, tell the best story you can. If your job is news, tell the truth with as much balance and accuracy as you can. Either way, you can't afford to be influenced by the loudest voices. Unfortunately, one of the weaknesses of Stargate is that TPTB frequently are influenced by the loudest voices. You hear them saying stuff in commentaries like " we got some Internet feedback on this" referring to fans wanting to see Sam's personal life, and we end up with something like Pete/Sam which is then immediately trashed when the flood of outrage arrives.

At times, it seems as though TPTB are intimidated by the fans and afraid to cause offense. I was listening to RCC's commentary for Avalon/Origin and he spends ages trying to explain that they are not anti-religion and the Ori are not intended to represent any particular religion - it's obvious from his comments that they received some mail from outraged believers and he's become defensive about the direction of the show. I'm not one of those who think the writers can't write or have run out of ideas - I think they're basically very good writers with plenty of stories to tell. But I do think that certain PTB - I'm not sure who - lack the courage of their convictions. They've got this far by playing safe, and they turn to jelly when any group of fans starts screaming loudly enough. A TV show should represent the creators' vision of the characters and the story, not a mishmash of ideas stitched together from the demands of various fan factions. I think most of the time the Stargate writers get that, but there seems to be an institutional wimpiness in their attitude to fans which I find a bit bothersome.

[sgeureka]

I've been reading the interview and this thread. What MG said sounded honest (i.e. what he actually thought and not what he thought fans wanted to hear), and I value that. It's his take on the subject, and that's fine with me.

A different take on this... I think the writers are listening WAY too much to the fans.

(snip)

Either way, you can't afford to be influenced by the loudest voices. Unfortunately, one of the weaknesses of Stargate is that TPTB frequently are influenced by the loudest voices. You hear them saying stuff in commentaries like " we got some Internet feedback on this" referring to fans wanting to see Sam's personal life, and we end up with something like Pete/Sam which is then immediately trashed when the flood of outrage arrives.

I generally agree, but I wouldn't call it "influenced" but "inspired". If TPTB think that something some fans say would make an interesting story, then they'll go for it. If not, they won't do it. (Thor still does not have a love life.) Sometimes what fans think and say is the same what TPTB think, and it only appears that there is a connection. It's not always only one or the other.

At times, it seems as though TPTB are intimidated by the fans and afraid to cause offense. I was listening to RCC's commentary for Avalon/Origin and he spends ages trying to explain that they are not anti-religion and the Ori are not intended to represent any particular religion - it's obvious from his comments that they received some mail from outraged believers and he's become defensive about the direction of the show.

Between writing the episode and doing the commentaries more than a year has gone by. I've listened to the commentary, and it sounds like RCC wants to make clear that some of what fans have written/complained to him about was not his intention when he wrote the episode(s). I'd do the same if I was given the opportunity to do so.

And TPTB don't want to offend anyone, but sometimes fans put too much thought/feelings into it. Example: I didn't participate in English-speaking SG forums until late Season 6. When TPTB were commenting in the S4/S5 commentaries what they were hearing/reading from fans of that time, I thought it was funny. Now each time they say something in the audio commentaries, I think, "Are they talking about me? Are they making fun of me?" The chance that they're actually doing so is minimal.

And if you (general you) still feel TPTB ignore you, what makes you think they listen to the others? Just take a step back and think about to whom you listen to in your live. Who am I to tell Mr. Gero who he should listen to?

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

"I only do what I have to to keep the boss happy. If anyone in the actual audience doesn't like what I'm doing I don't really need to care about it because they don't have any power over me."

Put your(generic)self in his shoes. Look at the situation from his perspective. The writer's audience, his fanbase, is his bosses. The only constructive, and timely feedback he's going to get is from that immediate audience. It's bad enough, from a creative perspective, that he has to bow even to that pressure and change to suit the vision of these few, adding the conflicting views of thousands of fans would be simply ludicrous.

Think of the fight JMS had to put up to see to it that B5 developed according to his vision of the story, and how it's pretty much unanimously agreed that seasons 1 and 5 were the worst of the series because of all the outside interference.

's the almost text book behavior of a group of writers who won't take constructive critacism because they don't think anyone else is really qualified, entitled or capable of criticising their works.

It's not "bad" it's just "different" or you just don't "get it". IE the critics are just simply wrong.

Actually, the writer's worldview as you have laid it out above is pretty much exactly what I think they should hold.

It's not that fans aren't capable of criticising; I'd say we've gotten pretty good at that. Are we entitled to it? Sure, air is free, opinions won't be muzzled.

Is one fan's crit of "bad" really bad, though, or just, as you have the writers say, different from the way they saw the situation? Is the writer, as a fellow human, not just as entitled to his opinions on fan reaction as fans are to react to the writer's work? Should he be criticized for having a personal opinion? Criticize the art, not the artist.

[Skydiver]

there is also a time delay in any fan crit. Simply do the math. they're taping what? eps 7,8,9 or 10 or close to it right now. And will tape eps 10 and be on hiatus by june/july.

when do we get to see eps 1???

July.

when do we get to see eps 10?

sept/oct

which is about when they're gonna be taping the back half of the season.

from what they write to what we see, there's a good 6 months of delay before any fan will see it. we can't be a viable source of feedback simply because none of our suggestions/ideas/complaints will come soon enough to 'fix' anything

are they aware of us?

you bet.

Do they read what we say?

evidentally so. coop wouldn't be defending his rendition of the ori if he hadn't have received some sort of crit about the ori and any familiarity with religions

can/do they care?

only they can answer that. I think that they may in a way. but there's not much they can do. they don't answer to us. they answer to their bosses and the networks and various suits that are telling them what do to.

[TameFarrar]

There's also this that hasn't been posted yet.

mean, I don't feel like I've had any flat-out failures, I don't think there've been episodes where people were like, "This is terrible!" Everyone seemed to really like "Duet," and some people really didn't like "Lost Boys," for instance. And I agree with both of them as to why they don't like or do like episodes. But at the end of the day my job is to impress Mr. Brad Wright, and as long as Mr. Brad Wright is happy with the work that I am doing, and we don't feel that we are losing people over the episodes that I'm writing then, you know ...

Now apparently you didn't count those of us who have posted that we actually LIKED that Martin stated this.

I for one posted that I was quite impressed with THIS honest statement made by Martin because personally while I think the PTBs do have an obligation to produce a quality product overall, at the end of each day the person Martin needs to impress IS his boss.

This is no different than any other work environment and I am amazed that anyone seems to think any different for a TV show writer.

Skydiver has put it best. These shows are written and filmed months in advance of the Fans actually seeing them so who else would Martin or any of the writers be looking to for direction and/or constructive feedback??

So to be putting dire motives and nefarious conotations on Martin's choice of words and responses is just silly IMHO. He tried to be honest, candid and up front with his answers. THAT in itself is extremely refreshing from many of TPTB we hear from these days who either lie outright or ignore the issues.

The fact that he even took the time for the interview is a decent thing. He doesn't have to even do that. There is no mandate for it. But yes they want to promote the show and yes they want people to watch so yes they do the interviews. Then like true decent folk ...people sit here and twist what he said until they can find a way to make it into something controversial when he meant nothing more than what he said.

It has been said we can't read Martin's mind so we can't be sure what his intent was. BUT decency does provide us with a guideline... take what he said AS what he meant. He has no reason to be devious or underhanded to our knowledge in his answers so why would anyone continue to persist to attach those qualities to his interview is beyond me.

[Shipperahoy]

Personally I don't think that they should lend all that much credence to fan criticisms. I mean, if almost universally all of the fans hated a certain thing then, yes, it would probably be time to take a look at what they're doing that nobody likes. However, they get so much feedback from fans and in so many different forms that it must be mind boggling. What criticisms should they pay attention to? What praise? I think they have to sort of phase it out to an extent as a matter of self-preservation or they'd go insane.

[FoolishPleasure]

Think of the fight JMS had to put up to see to it that B5 developed according to his vision of the story, and how it's pretty much unanimously agreed that seasons 1 and 5 were the worst of the series because of all the outside interference.

B5 was different as the outside interference came from TPTB/Suits themselves, not the fans. The suits wanted more "ship" and T & A, and JMS refused, which got him cancelled in season 4. It was fan outcry that got TNT to bring it back from the dead, but unfortunately JMS had tied up his storylines and didn't have much left to tell, hence season 5 was awfully slow moving.

I do sympathize with Gero and the other writers, as it must really sting to spend a good deal of time writing something you think is good, only to have fans tear it apart. . unless you write something in a big hurry so you can go on vay-cay, *cough*thetower*cough*

I'm sure if TPTB see a trend growing in fandon - a like or dislike, they will incorporate it somehow, after all, if they go against what most of the fans want to see, ratings will fall and they would be out of a job. Of course, they also have to listen to "suits" at Sony as well as advertisers who want to cater to certain demographics.