tollan stargate: upgrade or a silly stargate???

[lordofseas]

Perhaps because they did not need to build one since there was already one in place.

Pretty much.

If you want, just go on google, and type in "Stargate SG-1 Pretense Transcript".

[SILLYFAN]

ok...
well then if the Tollans did a new Stargate, that just probes my theory that the Tollans where like human ancients. they society needed a huge way to go to be like the Alterans, but the tech was pretty damn close.


ow and lordofseas the Stargate pic you show us its correct. i checked on the Stargate wiki its from a sgu episode.
i guess something like that happened to the tollan stargate. thats why it was destroyed without blowing out the naquadah and killing everyone on tollana in seconds. it was just broken not exploded.

[LtColCarter]

The gate could've been built from another material that isn't as strong...hence it was destroyed. There are a lot of theories...but nothing conclusive.

[hedwig]

ok...
well then if the Tollans did a new Stargate, that just probes my theory that the Tollans where like human ancients. they society needed a huge way to go to be like the Alterans, but the tech was pretty damn close.

Sorry, but that proves nothing. The Tollans were very smart and very advanced, but nowhere near as "smart" as the ancients. The only thing they were close to the ancients in was their arrogance about how smart they were. I'm pretty sure that next to the ancients, the Tollans were not much more than children.

And I also have to disagree that their tech was anything close to what the ancients created. If the ancients were a 10 on the smart scale, I would put the Tollans at around a 5, with humans maybe being a 4; we weren't actually that far behind them.

[lordofseas]

Sorry, but that proves nothing. The Tollans were very smart and very advanced, but nowhere near as "smart" as the ancients. The only thing they were close to the ancients in was their arrogance about how smart they were. I'm pretty sure that next to the ancients, the Tollans were not much more than children.

And I also have to disagree that their tech was anything close to what the ancients created. If the ancients were a 10 on the smart scale, I would put the Tollans at around a 5, with humans maybe being a 4; we weren't actually that far behind them.

1000 years, according to Daniel.

[hedwig]

1000 years, according to Daniel.

Pardon my confusion (), but what is that referring to? TheTollans are 1000 years behind the ancients, or we are 1000 behind the Tollan? Or something else?

[lordofseas]

Pardon my confusion (), but what is that referring to? TheTollans are 1000 years behind the ancients, or we are 1000 behind the Tollan? Or something else?

We *were* 1000 years behind the Tollan. I deduced that from Daniel's comment about the Dark Ages.

[hedwig]

We *were* 1000 years behind the Tollan. I deduced that from Daniel's comment about the Dark Ages.

Oh. Okay. I have to disagree with Daniel on that one; I think he's wrong. If anything, we may be a few hundred or even 500 years at most behind them. But then, what do I know.

[SILLYFAN]

the dark ages where proximately 500 years.
but thats not the point. they where almost as advanced as the Nox. the Nox where allies from Asgards and ancients.
so if the ancients and Nox are 10 the Tollans where 9 and the humans 4.


we must remember even with the help of the Nox they create their own Stargate. had powerful shields in their buildings (the office of the counselor travell in between two fires) and the phase shifting. plus high tech for health and defensive tech.
so whatever you say, they where as modern times human ancients. sure socially where millions of years before them. for example as they acted when the goa`uld threatened at them, instead of fight or find a way to scape they just where ready to do planet destroyers capable of pass trough an iris or a Stargate shield ready to destroy hundreds of worlds.

[lordofseas]

the dark ages where proximately 500 years.
but thats not the point. they where almost as advanced as the Nox. the Nox where allies from Asgards and ancients.
so if the ancients and Nox are 10 the Tollans where 9 and the humans 4.


we must remember even with the help of the Nox they create their own Stargate. had powerful shields in their buildings (the office of the counselor travell in between two fires) and the phase shifting. plus high tech for health and defensive tech.
so whatever you say, they where as modern times human ancients. sure socially where millions of years before them. for example as they acted when the goa`uld threatened at them, instead of fight or find a way to scape they just where ready to do planet destroyers capable of pass trough an iris or a Stargate shield ready to destroy hundreds of worlds.

The Dark Ages are considered by historians to take place from the 5th Century to the 15th Century, up to the Renaissance. Daniel, as an archaelogist, would more likely be using this terminology.

How do we know that the Tollan were as almost as advanced as the Nox?

[hedwig]

the dark ages where proximately 500 years.
but thats not the point. they where almost as advanced as the Nox. the Nox where allies from Asgards and ancients.
so if the ancients and Nox are 10 the Tollans where 9 and the humans 4.


we must remember even with the help of the Nox they create their own Stargate. had powerful shields in their buildings (the office of the counselor travell in between two fires) and the phase shifting. plus high tech for health and defensive tech.
so whatever you say, they where as modern times human ancients. sure socially where millions of years before them. for example as they acted when the goa`uld threatened at them, instead of fight or find a way to scape they just where ready to do planet destroyers capable of pass trough an iris or a Stargate shield ready to destroy hundreds of worlds.

Which makes the Tollan not as pacifist as they make themselves out to be. The Nox refuse to defend themselves for any reason, simply because they don't believe in violence of any kind. The Tollans fall back on violence when they are attacked instead of attempting to find a pacifist way of solving the problem. That may be a bit more advanced than us, but not by much.

And I would put the ancients even above the Nox. I would still say they're a 10, and the Nox a 9. And for me, I might raise the Tollans to a 6, but no more than that. Given that they needed assistance from the Nox in building their stargate and assistance from the Tok'ra in removing Klorel from Skara, I'd still say their technology doesn't make them anywhere near as advanced as the Nox or ancients.

And in "Between Two Fires" they showed just how not advanced they were when they were willing to allow earth to be destroyed to save themselves. In my mind, that act alone dropped them down to to a 4 in intelligence. The Nox and the ancients would never have done such a thing. I'll give you that the Tollan were quite advanced technologically, but mentally and emotionally they were no better than earth people, in spite of their lofty attitude about themselves. If they were so superior, they should have been able to save themselves from Tanith and his mothership, but they didn't. With their phase shifting stuff, they should have been able to send one of those weapons they had built for him right through the shields on that mothership and destroy it, but they didn't.

I would even go so far as to say that if earth gathered a group of people from earth with the smarts of Carter, Lt. Hailey, McKay, Zelenka and many others, there would be enough smarts in that group to backwards engineer or create many of the things the Tollan already had (even though Carter said she didn't think it was possible; I think she was doing herself and others a bit of a disservice with that notion). There's a big difference between being advanced technologically and socially/mentally/spiritually, and the Tollan were very lacking in the latter in my opinion.

[lordofseas]

Which makes the Tollan not as pacifist as they make themselves out to be. The Nox refuse to defend themselves for any reason, simply because they don't believe in violence of any kind. The Tollans fall back on violence when they are attacked instead of attempting to find a pacifist way of solving the problem. That may be a bit more advanced than us, but not by much.

And I would put the ancients even above the Nox. I would still say they're a 10, and the Nox a 9. And for me, I might raise the Tollans to a 6, but no more than that. Given that they needed assistance from the Nox in building their stargate and assistance from the Tok'ra in removing Klorel from Skara, I'd still say their technology doesn't make them anywhere near as advanced as the Nox or ancients.

And in "Between Two Fires" they showed just how not advanced they were when they were willing to allow earth to be destroyed to save themselves. In my mind, that act alone dropped them down to to a 4 in intelligence. The Nox and the ancients would never have done such a thing. I'll give you that the Tollan were quite advanced technologically, but mentally and emotionally they were no better than earth people, in spite of their lofty attitude about themselves. If they were so super superior, they should have been able to save themselves from Tanith and his mothership, but they didn't. With their phase shifting stuff, they should have been able to send one of those weapons they had built for him right through the shields on that mothership and destroy it, but they didn't.

I would even go so far as to say that if earth gathered a group of people from earth with the smarts of Carter, Lt. Hailey, McKay, Zelenka and many others, there would be enough smarts in that group to backwards engineer or create many of the things the Tollan already had (even though Carter said she didn't think it was possible; I think she was doing herself and others a bit of a disservice with that notion). There's a big difference between being advanced technologically and socially/mentally/spiritually, and the Tollan were very lacking in the latter in my opinion.

I refuted that.

Also, the Tollan built the weapons with no idea on how they would be used. For all they knew, they could have been used against other Goa'ulds to eliminate their strongholds. It was only when Chancellor Travell was ordered to send one through to Earth that she froze.

[hedwig]

I refuted that.

Also, the Tollan built the weapons with no idea on how they would be used. For all they knew, they could have been used against other Goa'ulds to eliminate their strongholds. It was only when Chancellor Travell was ordered to send one through to Earth that she froze.

I think she had some idea that it wasn't going to be used solely on other Goa'ulds. Otherwise, why keep the information from us about what the trinium was going to be used for? And she had to have known that all those phase cannons she was giving us would be worthless to protect us from those weapons. If it wasn't as simple as just using it on the Goa'uld, then there was no reason on her part to be so secretive. And why also would she and the other counsel members have murdered Omoc? She knew something more was going on, but she caved. I think she froze when it came down to herself pushing the button (so to speak). Had it actually been Tanith or another Goa'uld pushing the button, she wouldn't have liked it, but I don't think she would have "frozen".

[SILLYFAN]

OK.
i see nobody understands at me what i say, so i will type it in a way its very clear:
the Tollans where advanced almost as ancients on tech and science.
they where almost as us in social stuff. (way of think, react, etc everything say by me and others as they reacted on between two fires).


thats it. the thread theme is if the tollan Stargate was an upgrade. i think so but was very weak. they never imagine a goa`uld ship coming and breaking it up.
there was no survivor since the Stargate was broken, and the ships that used to scape where destroyed including the one with Narim. the only way that the Nox could have save some Tollan would be if there was one on the planet and they could dial to Nox world.


i don't think so since when they alliate themselves to the goa`uld probably if the Nox find it out they break out their alliance with tollana.

[lordofseas]

I think she had some idea that it wasn't going to be used solely on other Goa'ulds. Otherwise, why keep the information from us about what the trinium was going to be used for? And she had to have known that all those phase cannons she was giving us would be worthless to protect us from those weapons. If it wasn't as simple as just using it on the Goa'uld, then there was no reason on her part to be so secretive. And why also would she and the other counsel members have murdered Omoc? She knew something more was going on, but she caved. I think she froze when it came down to herself pushing the button (so to speak). Had it actually been Tanith or another Goa'uld pushing the button, she wouldn't have liked it, but I don't think she would have "frozen".

Probably because seeing that they were allying themselves against the SGC's enemy would be seen as a hostile act. I'm not saying what Travell did was right, but she did what she thought was best for her nation.