Earth Expansion

[morrismike]

Yea, I mistyped that.....

But u also made it sound like it would only be middle and upper class people that aren't deadbeats? What was that about? Bit of a stereotype there

Very few middle or upper class people would be useful on an off world mission. Think engineers, mechanics, electricians, carpenters, foundarymen, steel/iron workers, welders, pipefitters, etc. for maximum value. Obviously some others would be needed to cloth, feed, provide healthcare, teach children etc. to keep the useful ones busy doing useful things.

[morrismike]

I don't think his statement was about classes to be honest - i think it was referring to the developed/ undeveloped divide in the world. I.e. Earth has 1billion people who live generally western style developed lives in general comfort/ high standards of living - which in turn result in that 1billion population generally having substantially superior education to the other 5billion people of the world - who live in what is basically the third world, where typical work involves subsistence farming, and mass cheap relatively unskilled labour.

Basically - many of the attributes the third world worker force has would be virtually useless for colonisation of space, because as he pointed out - you d want highly skilled/ educated personalle and a developed populace to colonise the worlds, in order to ensure maximum capabilities and benefits from that colony.

lol, a very real and capable idea, would be simply for all the "western" developed nations (including japan, australia etc...) to move from earth, taking their 1billion developed populace with them to set up a high tech/ developed civilisation - and leave the other 5billion people who a substantial portion of live in abject poverty, behind to simply solve their problems naturally, and develop at their own pace.

That would be the most effective strategy... as it would help ensure that humanities colonisation of space has the best chance of success (developed populace and personalle), while at the same time the lower ends of humanity have more room, more resources available to them etc... back on Earth, hopefully speeding up their advancement untill one day more and more of them are ready to contribute to humanities galactic spanning empire.

I would think the cream of the crop would just leave given the chance. Who wouldn't want live off world?

[comperius]

well, you don't need to colonize 1B people, you can colonize 25000 people per planet and from this population 8000 represent armed forces, aditonal 3000 people takes care for food and wather supply and other people are divided in to sience, industry, healthcare, etc.

Using that strategy we could solve food shortage on Earth and at the same time we would have a food distribution center for off-world bases. What do you think about this last idea?

[Stewart5]

Very few middle or upper class people would be useful on an off world mission. Think engineers, mechanics, electricians, carpenters, foundarymen, steel/iron workers, welders, pipefitters, etc. for maximum value. Obviously some others would be needed to cloth, feed, provide healthcare, teach children etc. to keep the useful ones busy doing useful things.

Oh, rite, okay. I musta misunderstood coa I thought u were saying all the working class were deadbeats.

[RubberJesus]

I don't think his statement was about classes to be honest - i think it was referring to the developed/ undeveloped divide in the world. I.e. Earth has 1billion people who live generally western style developed lives in general comfort/ high standards of living - which in turn result in that 1billion population generally having substantially superior education to the other 5billion people of the world - who live in what is basically the third world, where typical work involves subsistence farming, and mass cheap relatively unskilled labour.

Basically - many of the attributes the third world worker force has would be virtually useless for colonisation of space, because as he pointed out - you d want highly skilled/ educated personalle and a developed populace to colonise the worlds, in order to ensure maximum capabilities and benefits from that colony.

lol, a very real and capable idea, would be simply for all the "western" developed nations (including japan, australia etc...) to move from earth, taking their 1billion developed populace with them to set up a high tech/ developed civilisation - and leave the other 5billion people who a substantial portion of live in abject poverty, behind to simply solve their problems naturally, and develop at their own pace.

That would be the most effective strategy... as it would help ensure that humanities colonisation of space has the best chance of success (developed populace and personalle), while at the same time the lower ends of humanity have more room, more resources available to them etc... back on Earth, hopefully speeding up their advancement untill one day more and more of them are ready to contribute to humanities galactic spanning empire.

but if all the "western" people leave the 3rd world people stuck on earth whose going to make cheap nike shoes for the western people on their new planet

[locutes]

you are evil

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

well, you don't need to colonize 1B people, you can colonize 25000 people per planet and from this population 8000 represent armed forces, aditonal 3000 people takes care for food and wather supply and other people are divided in to sience, industry, healthcare, etc.

Using that strategy we could solve food shortage on Earth and at the same time we would have a food distribution center for off-world bases. What do you think about this last idea?

I think it’s a good idea, although instead of having people constantly doing the labour intensive work of agriculture I think it’s better to design systems to scan viable agricultural land, have automated computers and machinery to do the work of farmers and leave the inhabitants to live relatively free lives, to become further educated and reduce the overall stresses of how we as a people live our lives.

Eventually technology such as matter converters could be a viable proposition for making everything we need, but a closer option to use IMO would be automated, resource management systems and regular assembly line robots designed to process crops etc, leave people to monitor those systems and when nanotechnology is available in the next few decades that can be incorporated too.
We have sensor tech that could document the best locations to plant crops, sensors can also be used to detect the minerals we need anywhere on a planet and then we just build the machines to pull what we need out of the ground.
If we wanted to use Asgard transporters and matter converters then we could probably build those systems into whatever cities or town groups we need thus improving our capabilities further.

We have a choice of power generation technologies, from real world non SG like Nuclear fission, maybe fusion in the future, Solar, Wind, Wave, hydro electric and geo thermal, to SG stuff like Naqueda (for ships), NIGs, Subspace Taps and maybe eventually ZPMs, don't think I've missed anything here, please let me know if I have.

IMO the military shouldn’t be such a major central part of our society, of course we need defense tech and we’ll always have a need for a space fleet to defend our people but build shields and ground based weapons into our colonies, along with automated ship construction and devices to process raw materials such as Naqueda, Trinium, etc.
Update those systems and ship designs as is necessary and that’s our fighting capabilities sorted IMO.

Finally about food back on Earth, well with the automated systems I mentioned we could make our food production much more efficient than it is now, remove the need for people to work in labor intensive jobs and maybe boost production by using the off world colonies to send food and other produce back to Earth.
Use a network of a few worlds to support the Tauri Human populace and maybe eventually we can also unite with other Alien/Human worlds in both the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies.

If anyone mentions this screwing with the economy, well TBH I think money holds us back, I doubt the Asgard or Ancients had a money system and those cultures worked fine, with everyone living on the same level class wise, probably without the crimes we have today.

[morrismike]

well, you don't need to colonize 1B people, you can colonize 25000 people per planet and from this population 8000 represent armed forces, aditonal 3000 people takes care for food and wather supply and other people are divided in to sience, industry, healthcare, etc.

Using that strategy we could solve food shortage on Earth and at the same time we would have a food distribution center for off-world bases. What do you think about this last idea?

It'd be hard to keep 25000 people busy from the word go. You'd have to start by finding iron ore, limestone deposits and some kind of fuel source for making steel and concrete (very energy intensive). Initially a few thousand could be kept busy taming the land (agriculture and townbuilding) and the next year farming could start (if our crops will grow there). There would be no need for armed forces as most willing to go off world would have no issue packing heat. Obviously there'd need to be a few hundred dedicated military. I'm guessing more than 10 years would pass before you could keep more than a few hundred techies busy.

[comperius]

Well reason for "armed forces" is first building new ships and secondly securing the planet. Also armed forces will be needed to secure the city and that's not an easy job, because there will be at least 150 buildings for living, working and of course food storage capacities.

3000 people taking care for food and wather supply is a small number for the whole planet. With this kind of organisation we could grow food in areas size of big countries back on Earth. With this kind of strategy more than 80% of the food could be send back to Earth or to PG.

With this kind of move we could provide food for at least several million people back on Earth. Still we would solve the problem for only 1-2% of the people who are starwing here on Earth, but it's better to solve the problem like this than giving money to some political regim in Africa and what they will do with the money is buy AK74 and mobile rocket launchers.

Regarding research and development (sience) I think that it would be good to have some Area 51 like bases offworld and all the time all this bases would share one database. This would enable us that if one base is destroyed (well we all know that A51 is gone) the research could continue on some other location.

R&D bases must have some shields and defence. Also I would locate them on other part of the planet that the city in case that R&D complex is attacked or some research go bad.

[morrismike]

but if all the "western" people leave the 3rd world people stuck on earth whose going to make cheap nike shoes for the western people on their new planet

That's what the stargate is for.

[morrismike]

Well reason for "armed forces" is first building new ships and secondly securing the planet. Also armed forces will be needed to secure the city and that's not an easy job, because there will be at least 150 buildings for living, working and of course food storage capacities.

3000 people taking care for food and wather supply is a small number for the whole planet. With this kind of organisation we could grow food in areas size of big countries back on Earth. With this kind of strategy more than 80% of the food could be send back to Earth or to PG.

With this kind of move we could provide food for at least several million people back on Earth. Still we would solve the problem for only 1-2% of the people who are starwing here on Earth, but it's better to solve the problem like this than giving money to some political regim in Africa and what they will do with the money is buy AK74 and mobile rocket launchers.

Regarding research and development (sience) I think that it would be good to have some Area 51 like bases offworld and all the time all this bases would share one database. This would enable us that if one base is destroyed (well we all know that A51 is gone) the research could continue on some other location.

R&D bases must have some shields and defence. Also I would locate them on other part of the planet that the city in case that R&D complex is attacked or some research go bad.

1. Military people don't build ships.

2. While some kind of armed continguent is needed it won't be more than 10% of the contingent unless there are very few people present. The planet won't be under constant attack and planetary defense would be the mission not city defense.

[comperius]

You are correct in 1. But they are still working for DoD or Air Force (if they are US)

for second if we are building some aditional base we could use that planet for more than just living and polution . We could be running that part of galaxy operations from there also, because fact remains that MW is a big galaxy.

Regarding numbers I think that 1500 people would be needed to securing the city, R&D center and construction hangers. This is 6% of planets population. Other are ships crew, ship construction, US air force sience department staff, etc. They dont have combat experience, but they are part of someones DoD.... and soon you are on few 1000 people number.

[morrismike]

You are correct in 1. But they are still working for DoD or Air Force (if they are US)

for second if we are building some aditional base we could use that planet for more than just living and polution . We could be running that part of galaxy operations from there also, because fact remains that MW is a big galaxy.

Regarding numbers I think that 1500 people would be needed to securing the city, R&D center and construction hangers. This is 6% of planets population. Other are ships crew, ship construction, US air force sience department staff, etc. They dont have combat experience, but they are part of someones DoD.... and soon you are on few 1000 people number.

Those military people would need some type of job to contribute (other than shooting the bad guy). It is doubtful they'd be shooting at people more than a few times a year.

[Stewart5]

Those military people would need some type of job to contribute (other than shooting the bad guy). It is doubtful they'd be shooting at people more than a few times a year.

THe military does other stuff in the real world, like contributing around the 3rd World (well, I know our lot do) so why couldn't they contribute to the colony-type thing

[morrismike]

THe military does other stuff in the real world, like contributing around the 3rd World (well, I know our lot do) so why couldn't they contribute to the colony-type thing

Think "Army Reserves" with monthly training. A person in the field that can shoot someone with 15 minutes warning is no more/less effective had he been sitting in a barracks waiting for the command. Don't get your garters in a bunch, I served 6 years and now have an Engineering job and don't feel that would be incompatible with being in the Reserves or some kind of planetary militia.