Megathread - Versus battles

[Buba uognarf]

Then again, how possible is it that asgard weapons gettin taken out by fluke is a plot device to nullify the wank beams tptb created? Because they seem to go offline at just the wrong time.

Plot device or not it happened. It demonstrates that Wraith weapons can cause enough damage to quickly take out the APBW.

[Character]

Plot device or not it happened. It demonstrates that Wraith weapons can cause enough damage to quickly take out the APBW.

A lot of nonsense happens in stargate, 3 zpms barely destroyed a cityship, supposed multimega/giga-ton weapons do grenade damage, its all in the interpretation.
The sequence in Last Man was an alternate timeline/future, and Micheal had used the same ships to quickly defeat the wraith. As you said yourself wraith weapons vary, hell the superhive made short work of atlantis, doesnt mean normal hives have similiar capabilities, it simply shows that wraith tech has insane potential.

[Buba uognarf]

A lot of nonsense happens in stargate, 3 zpms barely destroyed a cityship, supposed multimega/giga-ton weapons do grenade damage, its all in the interpretation.
The sequence in Last Man was an alternate timeline/future, and Micheal had used the same ships to quickly defeat the wraith. As you said yourself wraith weapons vary, hell the superhive made short work of atlantis, doesnt mean normal hives have similiar capabilities, it simply shows that wraith tech has insane potential.

Wraith tech having insane potential obviously works against the Ori though, there was no indication Michael's ships were any better than the rest of the Wraiths anyway.

[Ouroboros]

I think the whole phoenix vs 3 hives thing basically amounts to "this is how it goes down without character shields/the plot based need to keep the main crew alive".

I agree that Hives do seem to vary in offensive ability some being able to destroy another Hive in 20 shots or so like in 'The Hive' and 'The Seer' and others being able to survive minutes of fire. Judging by the way extra power uber ups Hives its entirely possible that various mods Wraith factions put on their Hives can make a massive impact on performance.

That's pretty much my own thinking as well. They're obviously doing something on some of these ships to change/boost the weapon performance. The superhive showed us that all that's really needed to improve virtually all of their ships systems is more power. Ordinarily I'd say that's stupid but with a biological ship that grows in response to being fed more power I can see it just growing thicker power transmission cables, larger capacitors, larger more robust engines, basically all the stuff you'd need to actively replace in drydock if you wanted to boost performance by adding more power in a normal ship. The Wraith ship doesn't need a drydock though, because if its current parts aren't up to the task of handling the full output of a new larger power supply, it can just grow new ones or beef up it's existing ones until they are. This might even be an alarmingly fast process like at the end of allies when two hives just suddenly "get" intergalactic class hyperdrives from some sort of mission report about the Aurora.

So basically you've got the potential for different power distribution set ups in different ships. Maybe one ship has more power routed to growing thicker hull armour and engines to push it around with, another one has more power routed to weapons, another one's got a better reactor or more reactors and has more power routed to both, all depending on the tastes of it's commander.

This can also go a long way toward explaining things like how Teyla can ambush attack the other hive in the queen and still get her ass kicked. The other one was in a better state, either in terms of armor, weapons, general maintenance or all of the above and more.

It's also interesting to note that somebody's hive or hives in "before I sleep" showed the same superhive like capability to see through an ancient cloak and smoke the ship they were trying to sneak past the Wraith blockade of Atlantis.

I suspect that what goes on is normal Wraith hives have enough power to get decent performance out of a few attributes but can't really max everything out at the same time. So you can make a tank by directing a lot of power into hull growth and weaponry, but it'll be slow as ass in hyperspace. Or you can direct more power at the hyperdrives and you'll be faster but have a thinner hull and weaker weapons. Maybe you can even cut down on Dart hangers and install a second or bigger main reactor to boost all the other traits, but then your ship is less useful for culling. Of course if you've got a ZPM though you can just max everything out to its full potential and go on a killing spree.

[Spimman]

Pray tell, how can the wraith feed when they dont possess the weapons to breach the Ori shields? And what a ridiculous comment to make. We dont know how many ships the Ori have. And the wraith cant move as quickly as the Ori. Those Ori beams would do untold damage.

Agreed. i say Ori!

[Buba uognarf]

Agreed. i say Ori!

The quote you agreed with has been debunked.

[Stewart5]

The quote you agreed with has been debunked.

In ur opinion only

[Buba uognarf]

In ur opinion only

No it has. You claimed that the Ori shields could not be breached by Wraith weapons which has no basis in the show, as far as we know Ori shields are the same as any other shield only stronger therefore the Wraith can breach them. The Ori also displayed very low numbers of ships and were generally plot nerfed and overrated.

[Stewart5]

No it has. You claimed that the Ori shields could not be breached by Wraith weapons which has no basis in the show, as far as we know Ori shields are the same as any other shield only stronger therefore the Wraith can breach them. The Ori also displayed very low numbers of ships and were generally plot nerfed and overrated.

Well, until APBW, no one could touch those shileds. Yeah, the wraith probably could in time. But quickly enough to stop Ori beam of doom?

[Buba uognarf]

Well, until APBW, no one could touch those shileds. Yeah, the wraith probably could in time. But quickly enough to stop Ori beam of doom?

The Ori shields went up against small groups of Ha'taks which go down in a single shot they never had to repel a sustained amount of fire like the Wraith could. Will the Ori to Wraith kill ratio be in the Ori favor? Certainly will it be enough to offset the numerical advantage I'm not sure IMO no it won't.

[Stewart5]

The Ori shields went up against small groups of Ha'taks which go down in a single shot they never had to repel a sustained amount of fire like the Wraith could. Will the Ori to Wraith kill ratio be in the Ori favor? Certainly will it be enough to offset the numerical advantage I'm not sure IMO no it won't.

Okay, I'll partially conceed that point. But the Ori are also faster, thanks to not having to stop for hyperspace radiation. Theoretically, they wouldn't have to engage the whole wraith force at once.

ANd you said a few dozen worlds the Ori have. I may be wrong, but am sure that Vala said every village on the planet were making ships, and there were hundreds of villages on hundreds of worlds.....??

[Ouroboros]

Okay, I'll partially conceed that point. But the Ori are also faster, thanks to not having to stop for hyperspace radiation. Theoretically, they wouldn't have to engage the whole wraith force at once.

ANd you said a few dozen worlds the Ori have. I may be wrong, but am sure that Vala said every village on the planet were making ships, and there were hundreds of villages on hundreds of worlds.....??

I made a thread about this fairly recently. The Ori have "dozens of worlds" like the one Vala was on and seem to have built somewhere between 10-20 or those crusader ships.

They come off looking like bad asses because they can easily blow up Ha'taks and pre-beam 304s that are not only significantly smaller than their own ships but technologically inferior as well.

I don't give them much of a chance against the Wraith simply because their industry really seems to suck and building ships seems a greatly laborious or resource intensive process for them given how few they were able to actually make.

Unless you bias the scenario in some way that lets them attack the Wraith but not the Wraith attack them, or bring their gods into it directly, they'll fold up pretty quickly in the face of vastly superior Wraith shipbuilding industry as Wraith ships aren't inferior enough to their own to offset the massive discrepancy in how much easier it is to produce them. Basically they'll lose the same way the Pegasus Ancients did, only way more quickly considering their civilization is apparently around 1/20th the size and their people are a lot more technologically ignorant in general.

[Commander Thor]

I made a thread about this fairly recently. The Ori have "dozens of worlds" like the one Vala was on and seem to have built somewhere between 10-20 or those crusader ships.

They come off looking like bad asses because they can easily blow up Ha'taks and pre-beam 304s that are not only significantly smaller than their own ships but technologically inferior as well.

I don't give them much of a chance against the Wraith simply because their industry really seems to suck and building ships seems a greatly laborious or resource intensive process for them given how few they were able to actually make.

Unless you bias the scenario in some way that lets them attack the Wraith but not the Wraith attack them, or bring their gods into it directly, they'll fold up pretty quickly in the face of vastly superior Wraith shipbuilding industry as Wraith ships aren't inferior enough to their own to offset the massive discrepancy in how much easier it is to produce them. Basically they'll lose the same way the Pegasus Ancients did, only way more quickly considering their civilization is apparently around 1/20th the size and their people are a lot more technologically ignorant in general.

the ori having control over a galaxy larger than MW and atleast say....10 villages per world...so lets say for arguments sake 10 villages per world so 100 villages building as you said 10 to 20 ships... even with 10 ships per village that is 1000 ships.

so going for a more beleivable number
1 ship building village per world 10 ship building worlds in the galaxy. 10 ships per village. 100 ori ships. the MW armada of 70 ships (which would repel (IMO) a wraith fleet of 5-12 hives) couldn't stand up to 4...i think the Wraith would get pwned regardless of better ship building infra

[Ouroboros]

the ori having control over a galaxy larger than MW and atleast say....10 villages per world...so lets say for arguments sake 10 villages per world so 100 villages building as you said 10 to 20 ships... even with 10 ships per village that is 1000 ships.

so going for a more beleivable number
1 ship building village per world 10 ship building worlds in the galaxy. 10 ships per village. 100 ori ships. the MW armada of 70 ships (which would repel (IMO) a wraith fleet of 5-12 hives) couldn't stand up to 4...i think the Wraith would get pwned regardless of better ship building infra

So where were the Ori ships then?

Even in the thread I made we reached the same conclusion. It seems like even with their small number of planets that they should have more ships than they do but for some reason they don't.

My personal theory was that once most of the Priors left to go on crusade shipbuilding ground to a halt without them. It's obvious that there's no way those primitive villagers are going to be able to build those things by themselves. It's just not possible. So, if you take away the Prior magic, you take away the ship building.

The Wraith on the other hand need a human and a power source. Unless one Ori ship is worth something like a thousand hives they're going to get steamrolled. The ancients lost and they had weapons that could knock out a hive in a couple of seconds and 1000 planets to call resources from instead of just a few dozen. The Wraith likely won't get their mass cloning machine this time, unless they can activate it again with a stolen Ori powersource or another ZPM they find somewhere, but against such a significantly smaller threat they probably won't need it either. The cloning machine isn't a requirement to spam ships at all, it only takes a handful of guys to actually operate one in battle.

[tomuchtimeonmyhands]

Got a new one, A Stormtrooper Vs A jaffa