Asgard Beam Weapon

[FN-P90]

Clearly its not the ships but the Asurans tactics, they should have seen the attack coming and had a plan in place incase of attack.

[delrey]

{"Weakness" here referred to their general lack of "strength," not any weakness in the sense of an exploitable trait; ie. lack of mass droning of ships (which, even in small groups, would have been very effective had the Asurans focused on our fleet one-by-one), raised shields after it was clear an attack was in progress, moving to avoid enemy fire, etc.}

Let's inspect these so called weaknesses you pointed out.

Mass droning: Also lacking from Larrens Ancient build Aurora.

Raising shields: They did have the shields up eventually. Are you suggesting that Asuran Auroras take forever to raise shields? That would be very bizzaro. Seeing as in their other ships (large puddle jumper vessel) the shields were immediately up, Asuran Atlantis we did no see this either.

We are to assume that the Asurans were caught with their pants down, complete surprise. That is why they did not have the shields up immediately.

Moving to avoid enemy fire? That was just 1 Aurora. Everything else was attacking the fleet.

You have not proved any indication of weakness on the part of the Asuran Aurora's.

How do you intepret the fact he called them close to the anceint versions but not the originals. That is 100% reffering to the ship and its abilitys, nothing to do with the asurans operation of it.

I have clearly explained a very logical explanation for why larrins aurora was not mass firing drones. You cant base your ideas one or two old damaged ships that sat dormant for many many years.

We have adressed much of what you have said earlyer with very detailed information as to why we are correct. Instead of simple sentances attacking others ideas.

[Shipperahoy]

Enough with the petty bickering already. Keep it clean and on the topic, anything else will be deleted and if it keeps up people will start getting put on moderation.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

When you can't backup your point's you retort to personal attacks and when i retaliate you start crying afoul. As for "credibility", with that screenname it's pretty obvious that your a Ancient fanboy, so you clearly have none on this subject. And you still cannot answer my one question, how are they inferior, what way ?
Until, Unless you have an answer to this, your argument is nothing but pure bull..

And JSPuddlejumper has an ancient ship in his name and he clearly doesnt like the ancients so whats the big deal with the names? Don't take every opportunity you have to take a swipe at me it just shows that you are being backed into a corner and resorting to personal attacks that dont have actual influence on the actual facts from the show. And i did answer, JM said, what more do i need? He didn't elaborate but i assume it is in weapons.

JM, never said that, once again, you are lying.

We have the Asurans, not only a warlike race but a weapon in themselves designed with aggression that surpasses the wraith. Would it be logical to presume that these machines of war would not have excelled in war craft and war related technology? And if the "god" of stargate being the writers themselves say that these machines are building replicas of warships but they aren't quite reaching the level of the originals (which you say are horrible at war) wouldn't it be allowable to presume that the Asurans are not surpassing the ancients technologically?

Because it can fly, is powered by three ZPM's, and has shield just like Atlantis, what more can a City-Ship do ?
And we know that the second City-Ship was constructed after the event's of Progeny, by Niam's group. The Construction probably started around the time of or after First Strike. And Niam's group was not operating under Oberoth.

So its classified as a city ship, but it doesnt make it Atlantis in every possible way. And there is nothing that said they rebuilt the city ship, nothing in BAMSR, First Strike, TMC, or The Return. The TMC city ship could have pre-existed and they just took it.

COULD have, they didn't come standard. How do i know? Aurora, none; Orion, none; Travelers, none; Tria, yes as it had it for a special purpose; and all i needed was one to prove that all Ancient Aurora didn'have ZPMs.

In "Spoils of War", Todd did say that the Ancient's were overconfident and sent their warship's deeper into Wraith territory, the wraith managed to capture a few of the ship's and took the ZPM's, and from that it can be deduced that the Ancients most likely equipped their ship's with ZPM's and that is why i said that the Asuran's probably learned from the Ancient's mistakes and stopped equipping their ship's with ZPM's.

They equipped some ships not all ships, there is a difference.

I seriously doubt that was the case, and you are just making excuses because you clearly have nothing. When it's a life or death situation, you don't hold back, the allied fleet was outnumbered, they needed superior firepower to even the odds.

Really it was a life or death situation? You said "The reason the Traveler's Aurora wasn't "shaky" is because they were not being fired on, besides there were a number of Asuran vessels that still had their shields up and had not taken any damage." If they aren't being fired on is it really a life or death situation? And why would they fire drones when it wont do anything against shielded Auroras its being wasteful.

You are trying to make the 304's look like the underdog, when they are clearly not. The reason the Traveler's Aurora wasn't "shaky" is because they were not being fired on

well they clearly didnt do as well as people have been hyping them up to be. a possible 2 fair kills by 2 ships in 3 minutes equates out to 1 kill per 3 minutes. Either way you are going to say something in my favor either the defenses of the Asuran Auroras are extremely durable, targeting aboard the 304s suck and they rarely hit their target, or the Asgard beam is not all that powerful.

besides there were a number of Asuran vessels that still had their shields up and had not taken any damage.

I suppose you would have us fire all our drones at them, which we already know wouldn't do much as we know Asuran shielding is immune to drone fire. Again that would be wasting a resource that is not ours to begin with.

[pbutter]

And JSPuddlejumper has an ancient ship in his name and he clearly doesnt like the ancients so whats the big deal with the names? Don't take every opportunity you have to take a swipe at me it just shows that you are being backed into a corner and resorting to personal attacks that dont have actual influence on the actual facts from the show. And i did answer, JM said, what more do i need? He didn't elaborate but i assume it is in weapons.

Actually he does, he likes puddlejumper's, in-fact he posted earlier that puddlejumper's are the best fighter craft. And, I am not being backed into a corner and i have never taken a swipe at you or anyone, nor have i retorted to personal attacks without provocation, and if you still insist on blaming me then, here, this is one of your first post's directed towards me where you' are clearly implying that i should "RETAKE HIGHSCHOOL CHEMISTRY". In-fact, it can be safely said, that this was the post that started it all. I have already put delrey on ignore and if you keep this up, then you will be next. Also, i have nothing more to add to this topic, atleast not to you or your minions, and you can assume anything you like.

COLOR IS IRRELEVANT JUST BY THE SCIENCE BEHIND IT! GOD DAMN, plasma vibrates releasing a certain color, shields are made of plasma, color of shields and weapons only show the types atoms it is composed of, THAT IS IT. THE EM SPECTRUM IS NOT EVEN APPLICABLE, IF YOU MUST RETAKE HIGHSCHOOL CHEMISTRY DO SO! DO NOT EVEN ATTEMPT TO CONTEST THE PLASMA WEAPONS, it has been clearly stated it is composed by plasma and it would abide by the rules i have set forth. These arent rules i made up they are actual real rules set by the way the universe works.

[s09119]

Actually he does, he likes puddlejumper's, in-fact he posted earlier that puddlejumper's are the best fighter craft. And, I am not being backed into a corner and i have never taken a swipe at you or anyone, nor have i retorted to personal attacks without provocation, and if you still insist on blaming me then, here, this is one of your first post's directed towards me where you' are clearly implying that i should "RETAKE HIGHSCHOOL CHEMISTRY". In-fact, it can be safely said, that this was the post that started it all. I have already put delrey on ignore and if you keep this up, then you will be next. Also, i have nothing more to add to this topic, atleast not to you or your minions, and you can assume anything you like.

That post was actually a valid point. You continually ignored his evidence disproving the color idea, and continually used the color idea as a means to back up your arguments. He finally flipped. And honestly, he's right; the color of plasma has nothing to do with its "strength." Next time, do some research before you start throwing out wild things that make no sense.



And just a question, 2ndgenerationalteran, how do we know Asuran shields are drone proof? Did we ever see one of their ships take a drone?

[pbutter]

That post was actually a valid point. You continually ignored his evidence disproving the color idea, and continually used the color idea as a means to back up your arguments. He finally flipped. And honestly, he's right; the color of plasma has nothing to do with its "strength." Next time, do some research before you start throwing out wild things that make no sense.

First of all, my post was directed at 2ndgenalteran, not you, i did not quote your post, why are you replying on his behalf. I really don't want to start this all over again. What,... you are trying to gang up on me or something...lol ?
why can you not just let it go ?
If you have something to say to me/about me, then pm me.

The show StarGate, is not completely based on real physics, if the writer's want to go with the shield/color = strength, system, than who am i to argue, it's a fictional show. His argument was solely based on that, in the real world the color of the shield might not have any effect on it's strength, which may be true or may not, however, we are not talking the real world/real physics here, it's a fictional show, and i countered his argument the same, however i did not see the point of repeating the same point's over and over again. If he felt like i was ignoring (which i did not) him, then that still does not give him the right to question my intellectual capacity or my educational background, i finally gave in, and all i did was repy in the same manner that i was addressed in, In-fact, at one point, the other poster, delrey.. is it, called me an ass and i did not do or say anything other than have his vile comment removed.

As for research, i have been watching StarGate ever since the show went on air, and many will agree with me on the shield = color equation. If you find it difficult to accept that a fictional race on the show StarGate has weaker ship's than that of other fictional races, then i cannot help, other than advise you to seek help.

[Skydiver]

gentlemen, an di use the term loosely, if you cannot discuss this matter as adults, dispassionately and without talking about each other, the thread will go away.

Given the emotional attachments i'm picking up on, i think you are taking things just a weeee bit too seriously.

[s09119]

gentlemen, an di use the term loosely, if you cannot discuss this matter as adults, dispassionately and without talking about each other, the thread will go away.

Given the emotional attachments i'm picking up on, i think you are taking things just a weeee bit too seriously.

People start to get annoyed when their posts are ignored and their points are glossed over. Some people here simply do not like to be proven wrong, and will ignore most evidence to the contrary of what they're saying; it's been a problem for as long as I've browsed this forum.

Whatever tension is here now is only the result of a good half dozen pages of ignored postings, childish remarks to try and divert attention from some peoples' lack of a clear argument, and, probably, some boredom. If you feel it's necessary to lock the thread... eh, go right ahead. Personally I'd rather just have whatever dumb things were said be snipped and move on.




And pbutter, I don't care if the post was directed at someone else, I was merely clarifying the reasons as to why he said those things. The show may not always follow exact science, but this is something that unless stated otherwise should be taken seriously. After all, we don't assume in other threads that people can live forever, or that you can make infinite ZPMs from nothing, do we? These things technically haven't been proven wrong, but we know to accept science as a general rule unless the show's canon overrides it. That's all.

EDIT: And I have no problem admitting that Race A has weaker shields than Race B... except when your only tangible proof is the color of the shields, which has not always been true (Asgard shields in seasons 1-5 were yellow, which would indicate them only being as strong as the generic Goa'uld, which we know is not true. Also, Anubis' upgraded shields were yellow, which suggests the same and is also not true. Finally, the Orion's shields were yellow, yet its shields took a beating in "No Man's Land" matching what the Daedalus has been able to take). So please stop shouting for fairness when your argument is flawed.

[pbutter]

People start to get annoyed when their posts are ignored and their points are glossed over. Some people here simply do not like to be proven wrong, and will ignore most evidence to the contrary of what they're saying; it's been a problem for as long as I've browsed this forum.
There you go again, you just cannot let it be...
Whatever tension is here now is only the result of a good half dozen pages of ignored postings, childish remarks to try and divert attention from some peoples' lack of a clear argument, and, probably, some boredom. If you feel it's necessary to lock the thread... eh, go right ahead. Personally I'd rather just have whatever dumb things were said be snipped and move on.

^^That's some interesting logic.
You are basically trying to justify calling me names.. because, as you say, i was ignoring ....someone.

And pbutter, I don't care if the post was directed at someone else, I was merely clarifying the reasons as to why he said those things. The show may not always follow exact science, but this is something that unless stated otherwise should be taken seriously. After all, we don't assume in other threads that people can live forever, or that you can make infinite ZPMs from nothing, do we? These things technically haven't been proven wrong, but we know to accept science as a general rule unless the show's canon overrides it. That's all.

I probably should have PM'ed him, nonetheless, 2ndgenarationalteran is a big boy,i am sure he can speak for himself, you had no business butting in, as my post wasn't directed to you, nor was it about you and frankly i don't really care what you have to say on that subject, so do not do that again.

EDIT: And I have no problem admitting that Race A has weaker shields than Race B... except when your only tangible proof is the color of the shields, which has not always been true (Asgard shields in seasons 1-5 were yellow, which would indicate them only being as strong as the generic Goa'uld, which we know is not true. Also, Anubis' upgraded shields were yellow, which suggests the same and is also not true. Finally, the Orion's shields were yellow, yet its shields took a beating in "No Man's Land" matching what the Daedalus has been able to take). So please stop shouting for fairness when your argument is flawed.

I will make a thread on shield color coding... later when i have time.

One more thing, next time you have something to say to me or about me, use the PM function, as this thread is about the "Asgard Beam Weapon" not pbutter.

[SoulReaver]

[NoobTau'ri]

gentlemen, an di use the term loosely

The feeling is mutual. I also use the word "lady" loosely when tallking about you. Remember when Mr.Oragahn said that I enjoy being molested by my father and you, as a moderator, did nothing about, and yet I got a warning for calling a poster "unintelligent" which is far less grave than what he said? You're the worst moderator ever, and I'm including in this all internet boards I've ever been a member at.

[jonos101]

i just want to say that JM has said that asuran auroras are not as good as the original

also noob tauri, the mods cant be everywere

[JSPuddlejumper]

Logic dictates Asuran Aurora's=Ancient Aurora's

Only difference is the ZPM left out (Ancients lef them out later, because of Wraith capturing them), which as I have stated would explain the apparent weakness of the Aurora's.

[jonos101]

Logic dictates Asuran Aurora's=Ancient Aurora's

Only difference is the ZPM left out (Ancients lef them out later, because of Wraith capturing them), which as I have stated would explain the apparent weakness of the Aurora's.

i know thats what logic dictates but in this case logic is wrong