Replicating Ships

[IcyNeko]

Um, it really should pretty much be like Auto-CAD. You don't need to design the object on the atomic level, atom by atom. You can Auto-CAD it and then say make this part X material, this part Y material, etc. The matter reconfiguration device handles all of the precision work, you just tell it what the final product is supposed to look like (in great detail).

I'm going on the assumption that you've never bothered to step in a manufacturing facility in your life. Autocad does the layout and cuts based on designs PER ELEMENT used. When they do a whole car, they draw out a blueprint, sure. But when they feed it into the machine to draw, they have to separate out the units so that the computer only does the cutting based on one element at a time. When the computers are processing metals, they're working with the metal components only. And even then, they only do that ONE component per pass. They don't do the whole vehicle in one pass.

Thats why you beam up some random matter, garbage for instance. Or perhaps some green house gases. That matter is turned into energy and then into the matter you want.

HURR HURR. This is where your knowledge of science is showing!

You can't reconfigure matter without mapping it out. Since you said earlier that you didn't need to map it on the subatomic scale, "just use autocad", you'd be building the entire starship out of banana peels and other garbage that's in a dump (should that be the source of the material that you use). Your starship would last a split second before it fell apart. But hey, all you need is autocad, RIGHT?

Subatomic mapping is needed to turn any material into what you need it to be. Unfortunately, this is highly complex and takes a hell of a lot of time to do. And the bigger and more complex the object to be created, the harder and more computational time it's going to take to replicate it.

Much easier to replicate small portions and do manual assembly from there. Heck, even the replicators did it taht way.

[wise one]

why not just make drones, it would take long but then we would have good defences...

or make another replicating matter device, sam mentioned that she was trying to make bits of merlins phrase shifting device why not a another replicating device

[IcyNeko]

Because we don't have much in the drone-launching department.

If we could replicate drone-launchers, then yes, this would be an interesting idea.

[Jimbo-DR]

Indeed, Icy has it right. Just because you put something into Autocad doesn't mean the computer can just take the design and create something out of it. Autocad is designed for creating models and representations of something you want to create. It doesn't actually do the creating.

And considering that, like Icy said, it's that complicated for simple items like cars, which we don't build on the atomic level. Your talking about taking something and reconfiguring its atoms and creating new atoms from old atoms and all kinds of ridiculous crap and in the end coming out with a several hundred yard long starship with incredibly advanced systems and what not? That would seem extremely unlikely.

[freyr's mother]

I'm combining several ideas here, but why couldnt you harvest material from other planets (preferably uninhabited) using existing 304's. They could do this on the way home from missions. So they beam it up, take it back to earth, and then have many replicators spit out the parts needed, then beam the parts into place.

[IcyNeko]

That's a bit more plausible. Not sure how you'd beam a part in place, though. But it's better than beaming an entire ship into existence.

[jds1982]

Maybe have something like an assembly line, or even a 3D printer.

[eluvatar]

yes the answer is always that peskey TV show stuff SG would be lame if we could make like 1 ship a month

[2ndgenerationalteran]

we could just build a model of a ship skeleton on the computer and it wouldn't be that hard. Use harvested matter and create it, then have several transport beams beam smaller components of the ship together eventually ending with a complete ship. Beaming tech seems to already be used for ship parts, its the only way you can explain 5 battle ships being created in 4 years, and the 303 and 304 program being kept secret.

[Wraith_Boy]

Thats an out of show reason. What is an in show reason they can't do it?

Problem is it'll most likely never been shown or explained upon further in-show like so many other stuff. Tell me this then, what's the in-show reason for the following: They cloak Atlantis, yet never try or mention doing it on Daedalus. Despite the fact that it could sneak up on Hives & destroy them easily...why is that? In 304's, missiles or rail guns have minimal effects on shields. Yet 304's always go up against better Ha'taks & keep getting their asses kicked. We saw in 'It's Good to be King' that 2 Drones are capable of taking out one. So why hasn't each ship got at least 1 PJ installed as standard in it's hangar bay? Janus was the only Ancient willing to help Weir, yet when he went down the steps, he was the one of the last Lanteans to go through the gate. Why not trick the others like Melia (even push) to step through the gate, then he run up the stairs. Activate the shield, then block in anyone from dialing in. He could then spend his time building the TJ, as well as ZPM's, energy weapons. Making a knowledgebase for the humans to get a hold of when they came through the gate 10,000 years later. Even when he went back to Earth, he built the TJ. Why didn't he go back in time, prevent the Wraith from being woke up in the 1st place & saving his species? Why didn't he go forward & leave everything for the humans so they knew what they were getting themselves in for before they went to Pegasus & all the knowledge so that they'd be prepeared to fight them when they did eventually go through? The Asgard wanted the humans to carry on their work & help all the little guys out across the various galaxies. Yet they knew Goa'uld, Ori, Wraith, Jaffa & all the rest had much more ship numbers. Why didn't they therefore give the humans all their advanced ships to use straight away, so that they had an instant ready made fleet to carry it all out? Why have we never seen Zats being used at least once in Atlantis, yet they brought limited 20ft Tazers through with them originally? What's a better thing to use, a Zat with goodness knows how much range, tons of shots or a 20ft single shot Tazer! They have Kull warrior suits that we know if worn by humans can prevent them from weapons fire. Therefore why aren't they equipping them to various off-world teams? Think of the applications, a team fitted with them, fly right into a Hive ship. The Wraith weapons don't jave any effect, yet they can stunk &/or kill Wraith at will. They could take over a Hive or Cruiser easily. We know PJ's are undetectable to Hive scans, so why don't they sneak aboard Hives, land somewhere remote in the hangar bay, roll down the exterior door. Roll out a nuke fitted with a delay. Get the heck outta there, then a few secs later the Hives goes up with a huge bang...why don't they do that or haven't ever tried it? They use a TJ to go back for a single ZPM. Yet they already knew about Janus. They knew he helped Weir, they also knew exactly where he was & where he was going at specific times because of the carvings on the stones. Why didn't they go to him, get the knowledge of how to build the things themselves, as well as how to operate Atlantis to get all of it's advanced knowledge etc, etc. It wouldn't have spoiled anything because he already knew about humans & time-travel....why didn't they do that instead?

I can think of 100's of things that they did wrong over the years, yet were never abbreviated on or explained in-show. This issue will just happen to be another one to be added to the list!

Actually, it would be quite realistic. Obscenely powerful? Yes. Show ruining? Yes. Unrealistic in the SGverse? No.

How many parts, systems does a 1/2/3km long ship have, hull, computers/displays, control panels, power generation, hyperdrive, shields, weapons, artifical gravity, beaming tech, replication tech, medical tech, sensors, . Therefore how could it be realistic to chuck out something with all that in a single shot. If the Asgard had the capability to do it so easily & quickly, why were they always struggling for ships such as in 'Revelations' & 'Small Victories'.

If they could call up their bud wherever & say chuck us out another ship as we're running low, then 60 seconds later it's done. They would never have been struggling for ships.

It's realistic to know they can build all the parts themselves. Therefore they can replicate all the parts individually, then beam them instantly into their appropriate place on/in the ship. It's unrealistic to think they can build an entire ship with all it's many, many, many, many parts & systems in a single instant. If they could have done that, then they'd always have had ships. Which we know they didn't. As well as the fact that the O'Neill wasn't ready for it's original launch. Yet if it was built the way you suggest, then it would have been totally done! Meaning ships can't be replicated all ready & working in a single shot. The parts on the other hand probably could be. So it's more logical to assume the parts get replicated individually, then beamed into place on the ship.

Yes, well the Asgard were not known for intelligently using their tech. I mean the Asgard could have crushed the Ori with 1 ship and around 30 secodns worth of time. Properly using time dilation in battle would make you unbeatable.

As for safety checks, the matter reconfiguration machine is assembling these things on the atomic scale, every one will be exactly the same. They could turn cow dung into O'Neill class ships if they were inclined.

The real fun happens when you make a large ship in space with both beaming tech and matter reconfiguration systems. You fly it over an uninhabited planet and it starts beaming the planet up and turning the matter into more useful things. It makes the Starwars World Devastators look like flies. Oh and you can also use all of the trash on a planet or in space.

How could the Asgard have crushed the Ori using time-dilation? They couldn't do it to the human form Replicators...twice! If you activate time-dilation when in battle, then you yourself are englufed & trapped by it's effects. Meaning you'll move at the exact same speed as your target, ultimately giving you no advantage whatsoever.

How the heck can you beam a planet up exactly? That's probably the craziest & most insane thing I've ever heard anyone hear ever state. There is a big, big, big, big, big, big difference between beaming up a skyscraper that is a 100 or whatever metres in size to that of a whole planet.

Lastly, how do you know they could take dung, trash or whatever & output anything they wanted. Put in an apple & make a hyperdrive. Somehow I can't see that being the case. I agree with what a few people have speculated on in this issue here over the past few months. Which is that you need to have the appropriate materials at hand before you can make anything. Meaning you can't use water to make a hull or whatever.
The Asgard colonised Orilla because it was rich in Neutronium, which as we all know is a vital ingredient in Asgard technology. So if they could use any old thing they had at hand, then they wouldn't be mining Neutronium or anything else, when as you put it yourself they could just use cow dung & turn it into Neutronium or whatever they needed it to be at the time. This is another reason why the human form Reps headed to Orilla because Neutronium is also vital to their construction. Why would they need to go there, when we know Reps use the replication technology to create more of themselves. Why didn't they just replicate human form Reps on the ship. Instead of seeking planets with Neutronium.

[IcyNeko]

Oh, you can do matter conversion from one form to another, but it would take so much power to change one molecule that in the end, it would be too expensive.

Then again, not everyone has the science background to understand. To emperortippy, it's just "pushing thar butans hur hur"

[Emperor Tippy]

How many parts, systems does a 1/2/3km long ship have, hull, computers/displays, control panels, power generation, hyperdrive, shields, weapons, artifical gravity, beaming tech, replication tech, medical tech, sensors, . Therefore how could it be realistic to chuck out something with all that in a single shot. If the Asgard had the capability to do it so easily & quickly, why were they always struggling for ships such as in 'Revelations' & 'Small Victories'.

If they could call up their bud wherever & say chuck us out another ship as we're running low, then 60 seconds later it's done. They would never have been struggling for ships.

It's realistic to know they can build all the parts themselves. Therefore they can replicate all the parts individually, then beam them instantly into their appropriate place on/in the ship. It's unrealistic to think they can build an entire ship with all it's many, many, many, many parts & systems in a single instant. If they could have done that, then they'd always have had ships. Which we know they didn't. As well as the fact that the O'Neill wasn't ready for it's original launch. Yet if it was built the way you suggest, then it would have been totally done! Meaning ships can't be replicated all ready & working in a single shot. The parts on the other hand probably could be. So it's more logical to assume the parts get replicated individually, then beamed into place on the ship.

Just because the Asgard didn't do it doesn't make it any less likely. If beaming works like I think it does: Matter is scanned, turned into energy, and then reassembled at the end point then you can turn dung into ships and it is just as easy and takes just as much energy as regular beaming would.

How could the Asgard have crushed the Ori using time-dilation? They couldn't do it to the human form Replicators...twice! If you activate time-dilation when in battle, then you yourself are englufed & trapped by it's effects. Meaning you'll move at the exact same speed as your target, ultimately giving you no advantage whatsoever.

Time dilate the supergate so that every second around the gate is a year or so for the rest of the universe. You trap their whole fleet as they exit the gate and have a year to work on a more permanent solution.

We know its possible to time dilate a ship and that TD can make a ship move faster than the rest of the universe through time. (1 second to the ship is a year to the rest of the universe for example). If you do that to a ship you can fire a dozen times or more before teh enemy takes a shot, and you can dodge all of their shots.

How the heck can you beam a planet up exactly? That's probably the craziest & most insane thing I've ever heard anyone hear ever state. There is a big, big, big, big, big, big difference between beaming up a skyscraper that is a 100 or whatever metres in size to that of a whole planet.

You beam it up piece by piece. Not all at once.

Lastly, how do you know they could take dung, trash or whatever & output anything they wanted. Put in an apple & make a hyperdrive. Somehow I can't see that being the case. I agree with what a few people have speculated on in this issue here over the past few months. Which is that you need to have the appropriate materials at hand before you can make anything. Meaning you can't use water to make a hull or whatever.
The Asgard colonised Orilla because it was rich in Neutronium, which as we all know is a vital ingredient in Asgard technology. So if they could use any old thing they had at hand, then they wouldn't be mining Neutronium or anything else, when as you put it yourself they could just use cow dung & turn it into Neutronium or whatever they needed it to be at the time. This is another reason why the human form Reps headed to Orilla because Neutronium is also vital to their construction. Why would they need to go there, when we know Reps use the replication technology to create more of themselves. Why didn't they just replicate human form Reps on the ship. Instead of seeking planets with Neutronium.

If beaming tech turns matter to energy and back again with minimal loss then its trivially easy to change what form that matter takes. And if it doesn't turn matter into energy then it makes no sense and they should have just said it was magic.

IcyNeko, why exactly should it take significantly more energy to turn a gram of water into a gram of steel? Turning a cubic foot of water into a cubic foot of steel would take a significant amount of extra energy but that is because of the mass difference.

Step 1: Beam up water
Step 2: Water is turned into energy and the atomic structure of the water mass is stored in the buffer
Step 3: Beam down water
Step 4: The energy is turned into the atomic structure of the mass stored in the buffer

If that is how beaming works then changing from water to steel just requires you to change the atomic structure stored in the buffer, done easily by pressing a few buttons on the computer.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

The hard part is the preciseness of the ship. you can put schematics within the computer core and have the matter converter read from it, but those schematics have to be flawless. As well, I doubt that you could converter matter into programming. It would require extra info- unless Earth jsut decided to use strictly Asgard technology.

[IcyNeko]

a lot of complete B.S. not worth repeating...
IcyNeko, why exactly should it take significantly more energy to turn a gram of water into a gram of steel? Turning a cubic foot of water into a cubic foot of steel would take a significant amount of extra energy but that is because of the mass difference.

Step 1: Beam up water
Step 2: Water is turned into energy and the atomic structure of the water mass is stored in the buffer
Step 3: Beam down water
Step 4: The energy is turned into the atomic structure of the mass stored in the buffer

If that is how beaming works then changing from water to steel just requires you to change the atomic structure stored in the buffer, done easily by pressing a few buttons on the computer.

Beaming technology transfers matter around in a matter stream, not into energy. They've always called it a matter stream. Not "energy beam".

Also, and I love this about anyone who knows next to nothing about physics nor chemistry... it ALWAYS takes more energy to convert one form to another. Pick up a damned chemistry book. Learn something. Every reaction takes much more fuel and catalytic components to cause a change to take place.

In terms of reconfiguring matter, it takes a remarkable amount of energy to realign subatomic components. In order to move electrons from one element to another, it takes a ton more energy to put INTO the neutron to hold the structure in place. And even if you were successful, the "left over" neutrons and electrons would destabilize. Breaking chemical, molecular, atomic bonds takes a LOT of energy. Creating new bonds takes even MORE energy. That's why every other species just uses more provisional methods to create their ships.

Nothing is as simple as rewriting a pattern buffer. Even in Trek, the buffer is still MATTER. And manipulating matter is expensive on an astronomical scale.

Before you post again about how you think it's "EASY" to do so, pick up a book and read. You might pass off as being somewhat educated that way.

[s09119]

Beaming technology transfers matter around in a matter stream, not into energy. They've always called it a matter stream. Not "energy beam".

Also, and I love this about anyone who knows next to nothing about physics nor chemistry... it ALWAYS takes more energy to convert one form to another. Pick up a damned chemistry book. Learn something. Every reaction takes much more fuel and catalytic components to cause a change to take place.

In terms of reconfiguring matter, it takes a remarkable amount of energy to realign subatomic components. In order to move electrons from one element to another, it takes a ton more energy to put INTO the neutron to hold the structure in place. And even if you were successful, the "left over" neutrons and electrons would destabilize. Breaking chemical, molecular, atomic bonds takes a LOT of energy. Creating new bonds takes even MORE energy. That's why every other species just uses more provisional methods to create their ships.

Nothing is as simple as rewriting a pattern buffer. Even in Trek, the buffer is still MATTER. And manipulating matter is expensive on an astronomical scale.

Before you post again about how you think it's "EASY" to do so, pick up a book and read. You might pass off as being somewhat educated that way.

Actually, they've said that the rings work in a matter streat. I've never heard them say that about beaming tech.