Odyssey Weapons and the way it fought the Ori ships #Spoilers# for Unending

[2ndgenerationalteran]

just like a runner in a race you tell them to keep running when they are already doing so. What so hard to understand is your constant insistance on this, you are starting to sound like Entreri, taking a highly flawed side of a story that no body really likes and sticking with it. If you were in a fight that was to kill or be killed would you ever stop firing when the diagram infront of you is saying you are making progress? Simple military stratey hints to yes you continue to fire without ceasing. Running was not an option.

[JSPuddlejumper]

We will have to disagree, it is obvious to me.

[Jimbo-DR]

We will have to disagree, it is obvious to me.

Actually your both reading the show wrong. I have it on my computer and I've watched the episode about 100 times, and I just rewatched that scene to confirm this.

Odyssey comes about to get behind the Ori ship right after it's shields drop to 28%. Landry gives the order to fire, and they do, firing 4 beams into the Aft shields of the Ori ship. Now we cut to inside the ship, and it is important to note that as we cut in, one of the beams is just coming out from Odyssey and heading for the Ori ship. We have the dialogue about fluctuating shields, and then we cut back outside to see the Ori ship destroyed. If you watch closely, you'll realize that NO ON SCREEN TIME PASSES during the cut to the inside of the ship. That little dialogue is meant to be happening AS Odyssey first starts firing at the Ori ship, they don't just stop firing and then decide to fire the last shot that finishes it off.

so what happens is, they show the action from the outside of the ship first, then cut inside, and you watch those EXACT SAME COUPLE SECONDS AGAIN from the bridge of the ship. All they do is show the exact same frames of time from a different perspective. If you have the episode to freely watch I suggest you do, because once you pay close attention it will become clear.

[Ripple in Space]

It looks as strong as any beam weapon created, if not stronger. Only needed 4-5 shots to take out Ori shields and the Ori have the best shields (unless we count ZPM powered Asgard or Atlantis shields).

Well, Shield strength wise I partially agree:
Lantean/Asuran>>>>>>Upgraded Asgard/Upgraded (ZPM-Powered)Tau'ri/Ori>>>Ha'tak (Upgraded)

Beam Cannons:
Lantean (Satellite)>>>Asgard/Tauri>Ori>>Asuran (Satellite)

[JSPuddlejumper]

"Actually your both reading the show wrong. I have it on my computer and I've watched the episode about 100 times, and I just rewatched that scene to confirm this.

Odyssey comes about to get behind the Ori ship right after it's shields drop to 28%. Landry gives the order to fire, and they do, firing 4 beams into the Aft shields of the Ori ship. Now we cut to inside the ship, and it is important to note that as we cut in, one of the beams is just coming out from Odyssey and heading for the Ori ship. We have the dialogue about fluctuating shields, and then we cut back outside to see the Ori ship destroyed. If you watch closely, you'll realize that NO ON SCREEN TIME PASSES during the cut to the inside of the ship. That little dialogue is meant to be happening AS Odyssey first starts firing at the Ori ship, they don't just stop firing and then decide to fire the last shot that finishes it off.

so what happens is, they show the action from the outside of the ship first, then cut inside, and you watch those EXACT SAME COUPLE SECONDS AGAIN from the bridge of the ship. All they do is show the exact same frames of time from a different perspective. If you have the episode to freely watch I suggest you do, because once you pay close attention it will become clear."


So that still means 7 shots. 5 takes out the shields, 6th and 7th destroys.


As for the most powerful shields, Asuran satellite, it has unlimited shield power. You are never going to beat that.

As for the ships, Atlantis.

As for regular ships. Odyssey, upgraded Asgard shields with ZPM.



"Well, Shield strength wise I partially agree:
Lantean/Asuran>>>>>>Upgraded Asgard/Upgraded (ZPM-Powered)Tau'ri/Ori>>>Ha'tak (Upgraded)

Beam Cannons:
Lantean (Satellite)>>>Asgard/Tauri>Ori>>Asuran (Satellite)"

Now if they were that powerful, they would not have lost the war, whatever the Wraith numbers. With that kind of greater than, Lantean ship shields will last 1 hour or so under Wraith fire, which would mean one Lantean warship is equivalent to about 100 Hives. Get real.


More like Ori/Asgard/Tauri > Lantean for shield strength

Ori power source may not be as good as a ZPM, so they are not maxing out shield strength or Asgard weapons are truly out of his world.


"Beam Cannons:
Lantean (Satellite)>>>Asgard/Tauri>Ori>>Asuran (Satellite)"

Complete guess. Lantean satellite was quite primitive compared to the Asuran one. Asuran one, sustained beam with infinite shields, i.e. best weapon ever created.

As for ship beam cannons, really impossible to tell which is more powerful, Asgard or Ori.

[Ripple in Space]

^Well I was grading the strength differently.

Everything shown on both shows leads me to believe that as long as Lantean/Asuran shields have ample power they won't fall. This is surely true for Atlantis (if we believe Rodney), which has a shield that held back decades of possibly constant bombardment, and onscreen hours-days worth, where our team's only concern was running out of power. Same goes for the Asuran Satellite, enough power=always up @ 100%.

This is certainly not true for Goa'uld shields. Even Asgard shields will comprimise under enough bombardment. "Unending" portrayed the two most advanced shields seen in the Milky Way (originating from elsewhere). The Ori Shields fell after 5 hits, I doubt anyone would claim that the Ori Power Generators were at "0" when the shields fell. They still probably had tons of power, but the shield strength was compromised and fell.

Same goes for the upgraded Asgard shields. We know that Odyssey still had tons of power (50+ years worth), but that one last hit would've comprimised the shield beyond repair.

As for beam cannon strength, we saw the Lantean platform cut through a hive, underpowered and just repaired in a single shot. Now I agree, a single shot from an Asuran Platform is superior (since it can last indefinitely), but one burst from the Lantean platform packs more punch than a couple seconds from the Asuran platform. Wouldn't a single shot from the Lantean platform have severely damaged the Apollo?

[JSPuddlejumper]

"but one burst from the Lantean platform packs more punch than a couple seconds from the Asuran platform"

Pure speculation and we can never know really. Since the Asuran satellite is a sustained beam...100000000+Hives lined up would be cut down give enough time.

Asgard shields have survived a lot, so it is doubtful that the Lantean satellite weapon would take them out in 1 shot. No weapon yet has been able to that.

The most powerful weapon aimed at Asgard shields so far was the Ori weapon, 1 shot and the ships were crippled (Flesh and Blood).

Lantean regular ship shields survive no where near as long as Atlantis, otherwise they could never lose any war. ZPMs as far as we know is by far the best power source, one in each Lantean warship...That is why it is unlikely that Lantean ship shields were that powerful (they would never lose the Wraith war).

[2ndgenerationalteran]

Actaully the Lantean platform did take time to cut through the wraith hive, but could do it unlike the asuran platform did to the lantean asteroid moon. I figure this because the hull of the hive is more durable then stone, and in the time it took for the LaGrange Point Satelite to cut through several km of the hive it would have easily burrowed a hole through the asteriod/moon.

You'gr going on the information we have now, not all the information. You are probably right but we do not know how badly damaged the Apollo was from the satelite attack.

I keep on bringing the fact that when several shots are taken simulataneously the damage to the shields increase exponentially. They may have had a sizable fleet but in war you cut off supply lines and weapons production first if you can. Being that they were taken by suprise they probably lost some key industry (ei. ZPM and drone factories). Their fleet would then be broken appart to defend Ancient populated planets, then probably even further to protect individual human planets. The humans there were very intelligent, but not yet strong enough to face the wraith. The Ancients probably aided them, a single ship to each planet (exemplifing their overconfidence, you also have to take into consideration all the human worlds asking for help). That ship then would probably be aided by weak ships native to that planet. The Ancient warships would be the priority target, and taking possibly up to 12 shots per second the ship would be beaten up pretty badly. Why the ancients didn't put city shields on their ships I have no idea. But keep in mind, a minimally charged and quickly repaired shields can withstand the enormous heat, pressure and kinetic energy of being blasted through solid ground in a supervolcano eruption.

[genius21]

one thing is for sure the asgard beam weapon is very strong show against ori ships however we dont know how they will do against hive ships becouse they are not the same as any other ship it has no shields that we know off but the hull is something amazing even without shields the railguns don't do enough the hull is something else only numbers could not have been the only thing why the wraith won the war and when we have beam weapons maybe the wraith will adapt maybe hives with shields or something like that.

[Captain Chaap]

...numbers could not have been the only thing why the wraith won the war and when we have beam weapons maybe the wraith will adapt maybe hives with shields or something like that.

We don't know, maybe once hiveships did have shields but the ancients might of found a way to get around them quite easily so the wraith just stopped using them. As for the war, i think that its very possible that numbers were the only reason the wraith won because if you think about it, from the amount of hiveships in the hologram attacking atlantis the first time (The Seige Pt.2) there were way more than sixty. So even if Atlantis had a few warships to protect it the ancients would still be outnumbered about twenty to one, and with that amount of bombardment even the shields of an ancient warship wouldn't hold for long enough.

[JSPuddlejumper]

"railguns don't do enough"

Railguns are completely ineffective against any type of mothership. Even against Ha'taks they caused 'minimal' damage.

Depending on the angle, Odyssey's weapons should split a Hive in half.

[2ndgenerationalteran]

I doubt they have enough momentum to pass through a km of the ship. You noticed how long it took for the La Grange Point Satellite to cut a hole though the hive, the new weapons have no where near that power. it would make a lot of deep holes but nothing that would cut through the ship.

On surface impacts the beam doenst seem as powerful, it destroyed the dakara device but its impact was not as impressive. In the line in the sand the craters were not that deep and the blast radius wasnt that wide.
http://www.stargatecaps.com/sg1/s10/.../lits0481.html
the beam alone on the la grange point satellite was at least 1/2 a km wide, and had more momentum and could maintained for a long period of time

[Ehecatl]

No it has 2 beam weapons, on the right and left side of the ship.

Watch the fighting in slow mo many times, always the beams come from the same place. And they are fired at incredibly rapid rate.

I'm positive that there are 3. I think they're on ball turret like mounts and the are located on the left, right and top all towards the front of the ship.

[JSPuddlejumper]

I only saw two beams, and I watched the fighting sequences many times. You could be right.

Since there are movies and the Daedalus and the Apollo are being upgraded, we will have a definite answer soon.

"I doubt they have enough momentum to pass through a km of the ship". You are probably right. Hive ship is likely 4-5 kilometers across. The Ori beam however may pass through it, it has more staying power.

Rapid and short burst...So it is likely that the beam will not cut a Hive ship in half. It is not a sustained beam and the blast do not last as long as the Ancient satellite.

How powerful are the Asgard beams?

2 Ori beams depleted shields by 100% on earth battlecruisers.

5 Asgard beams depleted shields by 100% on Ori ship.

Assuming equal shield strength, at minimum the Asgard beams are 40% as powerful, but I think they are way more powerful than that.

But from everything we seen, Ori ship shields are far more powerful than Earth battlecrusiers and likely more powerful than O'Neill class (before the final upgrade, and possibly even then without a ZPM).

If Ori ship shields are twice as powerful (safe assumption), Asgard beam weapon is 80% as powerful. If Ori ship shields are three times as powerful, Asgard beam weapons are 120% as powerful; 4 times, the beams are 160% more powerful, which I believe is the maximum, it is unrealistic to assume that Ori shields are that much more powerful.

Asgard beam weapons strength would range from 40% to 160% of Ori beam weapon strength. My guess is anywhere from 80% to 100% (equal strength)%.

[An-Alteran]

Now if they were that powerful, they would not have lost the war, whatever the Wraith numbers. With that kind of greater than, Lantean ship shields will last 1 hour or so under Wraith fire, which would mean one Lantean warship is equivalent to about 100 Hives. Get real.

More like Ori/Asgard/Tauri > Lantean for shield strength

Ori power source may not be as good as a ZPM, so they are not maxing out shield strength or Asgard weapons are truly out of his world.

2 Orii beam shots dropped the Oddysseys' shields in Camelot from full to nada.
It takes about a minute of Wraith fire from a Hive ship to do the same.
It would have taken several days of consentrated fire from over TEN Wraith Hive ships and many Cruisers to defeat the shields of Atlantis with ONE ZPM.
That means: Several thousand Orii beam shots.

Asgard shields fail after a few Orii beam shots even WITH a ZPM.

Now, a barely functioning, damaged, patched up, and poorly powered Ancient Warship shield was able to withstand concentrated fire from a Hive ship reletively easily without a mention of the shield being damaged. The shield wasn't working that well, but it wasn't even mentioned as weakening. That would indicate that an Ancient Warship could easily stand up to an Orii Warship if it can withstand far more firepower than the Daedalus type ships inspite of already being severaly damaged and barely functional.

"Beam Cannons:
Lantean (Satellite)>>>Asgard/Tauri>Ori>>Asuran (Satellite)"

Complete guess. Lantean satellite was quite primitive compared to the Asuran one.

Asuran one, sustained beam with infinite shields, i.e. best weapon ever created.

That is only because they had unlimited ZPMs powering the beam and shields.
The Ancients at their prime could have done the same thing. They were just stretched too thin.

As for ship beam cannons, really impossible to tell which is more powerful, Asgard or Ori.

Remember that they said the Orii shields were "fluctuating" they said that also in Camelot when the Orii first used their weapons... and they were able to use the transporter and the Rings to pierce Orii shields.

It seems Asgard qeapons simply exploit whatever flaw causes the shields to fluctuate, and causes the shields to callapse without actually overpowering them.