Ori Army vs. WWII era Army

[TKG]

No, but when their army outnumbers you 2 galaxies to 1, they can be as tactically sucky as they want to be. Note the opening thread: In the UNIVERSE.

If your troops are as poorly trained as the ori's are, then you best brace yourself for abominable kill ratios, because the enemy will bleed you dry. Attrition and entropy based warfare were very common in ww2,the ori are not prepared to handle either.

[Mister Oragahn]

No, but when their army outnumbers you 2 galaxies to 1, they can be as tactically sucky as they want to be. Note the opening thread: In the UNIVERSE.

They can be in control of hundreds of galaxies if you want, thus far, they have only proved to able to send only a dozen of motherships or so (didn't make a precise count).

So much for the graaaand army of the Ori.

ACtually the thread started out as "Nazi's" and was then changed in the interest of lowering controversy. Thats where the confusion is coming from.

Put all the entire Ori Army in the Universe in a continent, let say Africa..and to the Other side of the Continent is the Entire Nazi Army.

Situations
1. Ground forces only
2. Ori fighters are allowed and the Luffwaffe are allowed. but no air-to-air combat allowed.
3. Ori fighters are allowed and the Luffwaffe are allowed. air-to-air combat is allowed
4. What if we allow the prior in situations 1 to 3?

June 10th, 2007, 10:29 AM

The topic's OP hasn't changed at all.

[Mister Oragahn]

No, you saw explosions around them, but nothing got shot down.

You must have blinked.
On the six explosions on screen, four are Ori fighters going down.
One is a Death Glider, and the last one... we'll say it's a DG, even if nothing was there one frame before.

So? I'd like to see how long WWII-era armor lasts against plasma.

That was not the point you tried to make. Ori armours aren't those uber coats you claimed.

It doesn't have horrible accuracy. Re-watch "The Quest 2" most of the shots the men coming through the gate make come really close to hitting the guys, only a few inches off. And hey, swords are kewl

How far are they from their targets?
Not much.

Priors/Adria do not require gates to use their powers... See "Fourth Horseman 2", "Counterstrike", and "Dominion" this week.

Large scale powers have only been accomplished in concordance with the nearby presence of a stargate.
Otherwise, the powers are rather very local.

I don't know... In "Heroes 2", sheer numbers seem to be able to overwhelm the good tactics of the SGC forces.

How so? There were only a few SG teams, with a few scientists, and they were isolated from the stargate. Most of them still made it though, despite the fact that the Jaffas "controlled" the air with their crop dusters.

Probably try and take it out with fighters/converted Jaffa's al'kesh.

Let's keep it to what the scenario gives.

They couldn't touch him, he would no doubt be unharmed.

Couldn't touch him? The son of Anubis got shot down. The smoking Prior got shot down. Both had their powers at those times.

And with the unlimited powers we've seen in Ascended/highly evolved humans such as Gerak and Adria, they could probably crush a bunker pretty fast.

? Priors are not ascended. Nor is Adria, and she's pretty much limited like the others. She admitted it herself when she was younger.

The theme is WWII-era, not Nazis only, according to the topic. The Americans had a nuke.

Unless someone's playing with the thread's OP, I still read Nazis being on the other side.

A WING OR TWO. From what we've seen, Ori motherships carry a substantial force of fighters, and could probably overwhelm them.

Just how much? We haven't seen that many fighters, you know. Look at Line in the Sand or Felsh and Blood, and you'll see that it's all safe impressive.

Let's use a little creative thinking:

- Hatak has thousands of warriors
- One Ori mothership = about 5 or 6 Hatak
- We can guess that a mothership carries around 5-6 times for troops, and it could be even more.

Let's not forget that an Ori ship is mostly shallow. Maybe 2 to 3 times the compliment of a Ha'tak, which have been said to carry, at best, between 1000 and 2000 men (damn cramped).

How many Nazi soldiers were there again?

I'm sure the Ori will realize pretty fast, or they could probably torture captured soldiers for weaknesses in Earth's defenses. And immobilization in an awkward location could work wonders.

They'd actually have to go beyond the enemy lines. Ok, with spaceflight capable fighters, they can come from any angle. That said, the Nazi will then defend their lines. Simply because at this time, they won't be fighting over several continents, against several enemies. The combat zone will be much more tighter, and thus easier to have forces concentrated.

The chances of the Ori army/air force letting the Nazis capture one is remote. And even if they did, the Ori probably have a way to shut them down remotely. Our technology can do that, so why not theirs?

They have never shown this capability. If it's as defended as Goa'uld rings are, it won't be that hard to use them against the Ori.

They could just deploy new ones from orbit?

No forces in orbit.

[Rudy Pena]

You must have blinked.
On the six explosions on screen, four are Ori fighters going down.
One is a Death Glider, and the last one... we'll say it's a DG, even if nothing was there one frame before.



That was not the point you tried to make. Ori armours aren't those uber coats you claimed.



How far are they from their targets?
Not much.



Large scale powers have only been accomplished in concordance with the nearby presence of a stargate.
Otherwise, the powers are rather very local.



How so? There were only a few SG teams, with a few scientists, and they were isolated from the stargate. Most of them still made it though, despite the fact that the Jaffas "controlled" the air with their crop dusters.



Let's keep it to what the scenario gives.



Couldn't touch him? The son of Anubis got shot down. The smoking Prior got shot down. Both had their powers at those times.



? Priors are not ascended. Nor is Adria, and she's pretty much limited like the others. She admitted it herself when she was younger.



Unless someone's playing with the thread's OP, I still read Nazis being on the other side.



Just how much? We haven't seen that many fighters, you know. Look at Line in the Sand or Felsh and Blood, and you'll see that it's all safe impressive.



Let's not forget that an Ori ship is mostly shallow. Maybe 2 to 3 times the compliment of a Ha'tak, which have been said to carry, at best, between 1000 and 2000 men (damn cramped).

How many Nazi soldiers were there again?



They'd actually have to go beyond the enemy lines. Ok, with spaceflight capable fighters, they can come from any angle. That said, the Nazi will then defend their lines. Simply because at this time, they won't be fighting over several continents, against several enemies. The combat zone will be much more tighter, and thus easier to have forces concentrated.



They have never shown this capability. If it's as defended as Goa'uld rings are, it won't be that hard to use them against the Ori.



No forces in orbit.

Adria had limited power when she was younger. But as she became older, her powers grew. Nazi-Germany had over 1 million soldiers and over 100,000 planes, about 5,000 Panzer and Tiger tanks.

[Mister Oragahn]

All I've seen from Adria is lifting up four men at once, firing a small arc of fire at Daniel (Merlin Inside), play with the controls of a DHD and checking adresses... her, what else, really?

I'm possibly forgetting something, but it's hardly going to get better than that I think.
That's very limited, in the end.

What do you think if tanks, bombers and fighters located Adria on the ground, and really decided to craterize her once and for all?

I don't really think her necklace would really do much against the sheer raw power of a cumulative carpet bombing.

[Rudy Pena]

All I've seen from Adria is lifting up four men at once, firing a small arc of fire at Daniel (Merlin Inside), play with the controls of a DHD and checking adresses... her, what else, really?

I'm possibly forgetting something, but it's hardly going to get better than that I think.
That's very limited, in the end.

What do you think if tanks, bombers and fighters located Adria on the ground, and really decided to craterize her once and for all?

I don't really think her necklace would really do much against the sheer raw power of a cumulative carpet bombing.

I dont know about her personnal shield protecting her from all that raw power. I would think that her shield is like the Ancient like personnal shield that McKay had.

[Mister Oragahn]

Yeah, well, that, we don't know.

[Rudy Pena]

Yeah, well, that, we don't know.

Maybe we find out in The Ark of Truth. But I doubt that they will tell us.

[TKG]

it's ori made... making it's comparison to the ancient personal sheild a lot like comparing a rolex to a timex.. they both tell time but you know which one will outlast the other.

[Buba uognarf]

Only if you assumed they walked. They'd just drop a ring platform and be done with it.

So you have thousands of soldiers queuing up to those a few ring plateforms...the guys at the back would die of starvation and would be sitting ducks and blown to hell by artillary.

In any sort of frontal engagement the Ori lose the weapons any WWII power uses would mow them down so fast the Ori soldiers would be dropping like flies.

[TKG]

So you have thousands of soldiers queuing up to those a few ring plateforms...the guys at the back would die of starvation and would be sitting ducks and blown to hell by artillary.

In any sort of frontal engagement the Ori lose the weapons any WWII power uses would mow them down so fast the Ori soldiers would be dropping like flies.

I agree using the platforms would be like intentionally creating a choke point, whats to stop the enemy from using stheath to set up a machinegun nestnearby and axing everythignt hat comes through such a plat form? Or for that matter having concentrated sniper fire to pick off commanders who are plainly apparent by their lack of facial armor?

[s09119]

Ahhhh the original one was "Nazi", that explains it. Okay then, nevermind what I said about a nuke, you're right, they never had one.

But also:

- Priors and Adria have no limits on their powers that we've seen... With the exception of one not being able to return Mitchell and Carter from an alternate dimension. They don't seem to need a stargate at all, and the only time one was used was when the Ori powered a shield using the gate. And even then, they said the gate was transferring power (as in ZPM power) through to create the shield, not the Prior himself.

- I never said Ori armor was uber, I said it was horrible... I just meant that WWII-era armor isn't much better.

- The son of Anubis was onyl shot because he was so intent on outwitting Mitchell, he did not notice Daniel (and he's not a Prior...). Every other Prior we've seen has been able to deflect any and all attacks, with the exception of the ones affected by the anti-Prior device.

- Doesn't matter how many soldiers a mothership can carry, the idea was EVERY Ori soldier in the universe vs. a WWII-era (Nazi) army. And Vala said that they had millions of followers in "Crusade", not to mention the converted Jaffa (which are now soldiers of the Ori, so I think they count).

- Okay, sorry, re-read the opening. You're right, converted al'kesh could not be used. THAT one I'll say was my fault.

[Mister Oragahn]

- Priors and Adria have no limits on their powers that we've seen... With the exception of one not being able to return Mitchell and Carter from an alternate dimension. They don't seem to need a stargate at all, and the only time one was used was when the Ori powered a shield using the gate. And even then, they said the gate was transferring power (as in ZPM power) through to create the shield, not the Prior himself.

That's not my point. What I say is that the big powers, the ones that would matter against an army, are - besides the virus - related to the presence of a connected stargate.

- I never said Ori armor was uber, I said it was horrible... I just meant that WWII-era armor isn't much better.

That's where it hurts. In the desert, the Ori will be at pains with their clunky and heavy armour, while german soldiers won't bother with that.

- The son of Anubis was onyl shot because he was so intent on outwitting Mitchell, he did not notice Daniel (and he's not a Prior...).

Yes, distracted. You only need distraction to kill a powerful being, and the son of Anubis, Kalel or something like that, can't remember, was very close to ascension, according to the ascendometer.

Every other Prior we've seen has been able to deflect any and all attacks, with the exception of the ones affected by the anti-Prior device.

By the time he was killed, the smoking Prior had regained all of this powers.

- Doesn't matter how many soldiers a mothership can carry, the idea was EVERY Ori soldier in the universe vs. a WWII-era (Nazi) army. And Vala said that they had millions of followers in "Crusade", not to mention the converted Jaffa (which are now soldiers of the Ori, so I think they count).

I don't remember hearing anything about millions of followers. Any data?

[s09119]

That's not my point. What I say is that the big powers, the ones that would matter against an army, are - besides the virus - related to the presence of a connected stargate.

- Only that we've seen. And how is, say, being able to strangle who-knows-how-many soldiers at once not army-affecting? Adria didn't even look winded from killing four Jaffa at once. Who knows how many she could take out alone?

That's where it hurts. In the desert, the Ori will be at pains with their clunky and heavy armour, while german soldiers won't bother with that.

- Again... their armor was one of my Ori disadvatages...

Yes, distracted. You only need distraction to kill a powerful being, and the son of Anubis, Kalel or something like that, can't remember, was very close to ascension, according to the ascendometer.

- Okay, not arguing that. But Kalel had never used his powers before, either. The Priors have.

By the time he was killed, the smoking Prior had regained all of this powers.

- He had just barely overcome the anti-Prior device. I think it's safe to say Mitchell hit him while he was still weak.

I don't remember hearing anything about millions of followers. Any data?

I thought Vala said that during "Crusade"... I could be wrong though, I'll rewatch it. And again, let's speculate:

- Galaxies in stagate have hundreds of inhabited worlds with populations of around 1000 - several million/billion.

- Even if the Ori galaxy only had followers on a few dozen planets, with populations of only 1000 each, that's 24-36 thousand soldiers, and I think, working from the basis of hundreds of worlds, they have a lot more than that.

[SGFerrit]

It's a shame we won't find out...

Spoiler:

In Continuum now that we know the Nazi's will be in that movie, but we should get to see SG-1 go upagainst them and maybe even the Jaffa?