BC-304 vs. Imperial Star Destroyer

[Mister Oragahn]

I'd like to make posts shorter as well, but it can't be done if I have to adress everything. That said, I did try to cut a couple of things.
There's no urge at all. As far as I'm concerned, the thread can return to its vegetative state. It will spare me time as well.

[Extrenix]

Huxley FTW

Ody + beaming nuke = dead ship whatever frakin scifi show/movie.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

A the risk of getting railed at, this is not a thread on how powerful SDs are, and, as interesting as it is, it really doesn't matter; Deadelus gets creamed even on the low end of the calculations.

[Mister Oragahn]

A the risk of getting railed at, this is not a thread on how powerful SDs are, and, as interesting as it is, it really doesn't matter; Deadelus gets creamed even on the low end of the calculations.

BC-304 vs. Imperial Star Destroyer

You got to tell me how we can know which one would win without knowing the power of a SD...

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

BC-304 vs. Imperial Star Destroyer

You got to tell me how we can know which one would win without knowing the power of a SD...

Sorry, I was a little vague, I ment that Daedelus would lose whether you were right or whether Darth Timon is right. (as well as anything in between)
Even going only on what we see in the movies, Daedelus still loses. It's just a matter of sheer size. The Star Destroyer has over 50 more main guns than Daedelus, and who knows how many secondary ones.
Plus, the Star Destroyer has a tractor beam; it could just pull Daedelus in up close and pummel it until it was...
(I probably shouldn't use this term)
*Holds Breath*
slag.

(Not to mention the poor, forgotten TIE Fighters)

[Mister Oragahn]

Sorry, I was a little vague, I ment that Daedelus would lose whether you were right or whether Darth Timon is right. (as well as anything in between)
Even going only on what we see in the movies, Daedelus still loses. It's just a matter of sheer size. The Star Destroyer has over 50 more main guns than Daedelus, and who knows how many secondary ones.
Plus, the Star Destroyer has a tractor beam; it could just pull Daedelus in up close and pummel it until it was...
(I probably shouldn't use this term)
*Holds Breath*
slag.

(Not to mention the poor, forgotten TIE Fighters)

So basically, knowing the power the SD is useless to know which ship wins, but on the other end, knowing that the SD has plenty of guns and is big is extremely conclusive.
I think you'll find the answers you seek in teh pages ou've skipper.

As for the tractor beam, apaprently it has limits. It was used on the Tantive only when her shields were down. Apparently, it takes a lot of power to lock on a shielded ship, adn the one pulling the other must be extremely more powerful (ISD vs X-Wing in the EU, Death vs The Millenium Falcon).

[YodaMate]

Page count was a bit off-putting, so sincere apologies if this is well-travelled and debunked ground, i'll just throw in my 2 cents.

I'm pretty sure only Daedalus has got offensive Asgard beaming tech (thanks, Hermiod). On SG, they never really fully explained exactly how 'more advanced' shields could block beaming, something to do with frequencies if i recall correctly. Since there is no similar issue in SW, SD shields may or may not be able to block beaming.

SW uses different technical units for measuring power (and there's some minor debate and inconsistency in that area anyway), generally without relation to Earth units. SG is supposed to be Earth-grounded, but power figures for energy shields and weapons (as far as i know) have long since stopped been focused on in detail.

Thus, i don't believe its really possible to make accurate comparisons. If the two are at parity (i.e. SD turbo-lasers damage 304 shields at "normal" rate), well the SD is a floating arsenal that can can cause some serious hurt (if BDZ means anything to you, you'll know what i mean). If there isn't parity, whichever has the advantage is likely to win or force a draw. And if Daedulus can beam in, it'll be over before it starts.

It is notable that if you take out the SD bridge, the rest of the ship has a tendency to forget what it's supposed to be doing.

SW hasn't really gone into detail on the tractor beam, except that range is limited and you can out-run it relatively easily if you're fast. In an EU book, Luke's X-wing is grabbed by a tractor beam and he surprises the Imps when he Jedi tricks his way out, but he causes severe damage to his ship and later suffers hyperdrive failure (something the Tau'ri can probably relate to).

My natural inclination is Star Destroyer, because it's so damn cool.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

So basically, knowing the power the SD is useless to know which ship wins, but on the other end, knowing that the SD has plenty of guns and is big is extremely conclusive.
I think you'll find the answers you seek in teh pages ou've skipper.

As for the tractor beam, apaprently it has limits. It was used on the Tantive only when her shields were down. Apparently, it takes a lot of power to lock on a shielded ship, adn the one pulling the other must be extremely more powerful (ISD vs X-Wing in the EU, Death vs The Millenium Falcon).

The tractor beam does have limits, but I have seen nothing to refute the fact that the SD would win.
Turbolasers are similar to asgard energy weapons, and it is quite obvious from the movies that snubfighter missiles (some of which are as powerful as Daedelus' missiles) are of no use against SD shields. Also, an SD is larger (by the official specs from Lucasfilm and judging by size comparasons) than an O'Niell Class Ship, and appears to be faster than Daedelus (not impossible without an atmosphere). Can you imagine Daedelus taking on an Asgard ship? No comparason.
May I point out, before somene says X-Wing, that X-Wings and TIEs and ARC-170s and Viper Droids are not snubfighters, this is a common misconception. All the above mentioned starfighters are Bomber/Interceptor hybrids. Their torpedoes (note: torpedo, not missile) are designed for engagements against larger vessels, thus we see them engaging massively larger vessels.

Surely you can infer who would win from the above?

[Mister Oragahn]

So let's go through it step by step...

The tractor beam does have limits, but I have seen nothing to refute the fact that the SD would win.
Turbolasers are similar to asgard energy weapons...

Are they?

... and it is quite obvious from the movies that snubfighter missiles (some of which are as powerful as Daedelus' missiles)

You know that how?

... are of no use against SD shields.

Despite the evidence provided multiple times. I guess you have, indeed, read the thread.

Also, an SD is larger (by the official specs from Lucasfilm and judging by size comparasons) than an O'Niell Class Ship

And? So?... What?

... and appears to be faster than Daedelus (not impossible without an atmosphere).

You've seen that where?

Can you imagine Daedelus taking on an Asgard ship? No comparason.

Can you prove an O'neill = ISD?

May I point out, before somene says X-Wing, that X-Wings and TIEs and ARC-170s and Viper Droids are not snubfighters, this is a common misconception.

Snubfighters is a term which is seen in the books, actually most of the time to point out at squadrons of X-wings and Y-wings.
By that same token, TIE fighters, A-Wings, B-Wings, and even TIE bombers, are going to be snubfighters.

All the above mentioned starfighters are Bomber/Interceptor hybrids.

No. The EU has its own take about what a hybrid is.

Their torpedoes (note: torpedo, not missile) are designed for engagements against larger vessels, thus we see them engaging massively larger vessels.

Missiles were used against larger targets as well: Millenium Falcon firing at the massive control towers inside the DSII.
A-Wings firing their missiles at the Executor's bridge.

Surely you can infer who would win from the above?

I can above all infer that you've not read anything of value mentionned before, made several mistakes and come with a load of unsupported assumptions.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

So let's go through it step by step...

Are they?

I cannot prove that SD turbolasers are similar to Asgard weapons, but I was judging by the apparent damage done by each.

You know that how?

I am fairly certain (I'll watch them again) that it is stated in the Origional Trilogy that snubfighters are innefective against SDs.

And? So?... What?

You are correct that size does not matter, but you split my statement; size does not matter, but bigger and faster does.

You've seen that where?

I was comparing the realitive speeds used by SDs and the Daedelus when performing manuvers in cannon situations, an SD appears to be able to manuver slightly faster than a 304.

Can you prove an O'neill = ISD?

I cannot prove that an O'Niell = ISD. In all fairness, you are right. It was a dumb statement and had no place in my post. I apologize.

Snubfighters is a term which is seen in the books, actually most of the time to point out at squadrons of X-wings and Y-wings.
By that same token, TIE fighters, A-Wings, B-Wings, and even TIE bombers, are going to be snubfighters.

You are right, a snubfighter is simply a small 1-4 man fighter. A better word would have been Interceptor.

No. The EU has its own take about what a hybrid is.

It may well be that the EU has a different take on hybrids, I'll have to check on that one.

Missiles were used against larger targets as well: Millenium Falcon firing at the massive control towers inside the DSII.

The Millenium Falcon does not fire missiles, it has torpedoes jus like X-Wings.

A-Wings firing their missiles at the Executor's bridge.

The SDs shield was already down.

I can above all infer that you've not read anything of value mentionned before, made several mistakes and come with a load of unsupported assumptions.

I have read the thread, and I will admit that some of my arguments are flawed by nessecity, because the official cannon contains many contradictory statements.


Also, we're still forgetting the (I believe the official number was 500) TIEs.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Despite the evidence provided multiple times. I guess you have, indeed, read the thread.

I'm sorry, I didn't adress this one. Practically all of the evidence provided comes from what I would call 'Deus ex Macina' victories.

[Mister Oragahn]

I cannot prove that SD turbolasers are similar to Asgard weapons, but I was judging by the apparent damage done by each.

Apparent damage to what exactly? Exotic weapons fired against unexplained and barely quantitified materials, armour or shields isn't going to lead to concrete numbers.
Impressions are simply too vague to be reliable.

I am fairly certain (I'll watch them again) that it is stated in the Origional Trilogy that snubfighters are innefective against SDs.

Maybe you recall Tarkin's disdain regarding the rebels' ambitious plan against the Death Star.

You are correct that size does not matter, but you split my statement; size does not matter, but bigger and faster does.

Again, how? For all I've seen, a BC-304 can cary weapons which have yields which dwarf what most sources give to Star Wars.

Would you say a ZPM is not powerful because it's smaller than an ISD' reactor core?

I was comparing the realitive speeds used by SDs and the Daedelus when performing manuvers in cannon situations, an SD appears to be able to manuver slightly faster than a 304.

Huh? I've never seen an ISD pull any form of impressive manoeuver, safe powerful linear acceleration or deceleration.

I cannot prove that an O'Niell = ISD. In all fairness, you are right. It was a dumb statement and had no place in my post. I apologize.

Nevermind, I was too brutal as well.

You are right, a snubfighter is simply a small 1-4 man fighter. A better word would have been Interceptor.

It may well be that the EU has a different take on hybrids, I'll have to check on that one.

There was that time where EU hybrids were pieces of x-wings or y-wings strapped to TIE panels or cockipits, or whatever. Pure EU garbage.

The Millenium Falcon does not fire missiles, it has torpedoes jus like X-Wings.

Check the projectiles she fires in the Death Star II core.

The SDs shield was already down.

There's been lots of talk on that, and I can't really settle on this. If we go by what the film's cut wants us to think, the shields would probably be still at that exact moment.

I have read the thread, and I will admit that some of my arguments are flawed by nessecity, because the official cannon contains many contradictory statements.

Yeah well we've looked at a certain number of them.

Also, we're still forgetting the (I believe the official number was 500) TIEs.

Considering a BC-304's shields and its railguns, I'm fairly convinced that the TIEs will be like insects. Eventually, the bombers may start to rock teh ship, but not that much.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Apparent damage to what exactly? Exotic weapons fired against unexplained and barely quantitified materials, armour or shields isn't going to lead to concrete numbers.
Impressions are simply too vague to be reliable.

Yes, they are vague, but they're all we've got. However, because they are unreliable, I will try not to use them again.

Maybe you recall Tarkin's disdain regarding the rebels' ambitious plan against the Death Star.

That may be it, but I think it was something else.

Again, how? For all I've seen, a BC-304 can cary weapons which have yields which dwarf what most sources give to Star Wars.

Would you say a ZPM is not powerful because it's smaller than an ISD' reactor core?

Of course not, but you still misunderstand me. (I may not have been clear enough, so it could be my fault) I am not talking about just size. I'm talking about size and quality. Mere size would be a stupid argument. It would be par to saying a Blunderbuss is better than an Uzi just because it's bigger.
However, arguing against size when the weapon is the same technology level also doesn't make sense. It's like saying an Uzi could beat an M1-Abrams just 'cause an Uzi fires faster!
True, you wouldn't break into a house with an Abrams, but if a guy in an Abrams fought a guy with an Uzi, I know who I'd bet on. (and before you ask, it's just an analogy, I do not consider the gap between 304s and SDs to be quite that big)

Huh? I've never seen an ISD pull any form of impressive manoeuver, safe powerful linear acceleration or deceleration.

Really, neither ship performs impressive maneuvers all that often. But even just looking at their relative speeds on mere forward thrust, (Aroura, The Origional Trilogy), the SD is still faster.

Nevermind, I was too brutal as well.

No you weren't, I made a ridiculous statement and it needed to be called up. You were right, I was wrong.

There was that time where EU hybrids were pieces of x-wings or y-wings strapped to TIE panels or cockipits, or whatever. Pure EU garbage.

Ah, yes, I remember. I was thinking more along the lines of what we would call a hybrid, sorry.

Check the projectiles she fires in the Death Star II core.

Haven't had a chance to look at that yet, but I will as soon as I can.

There's been lots of talk on that, and I can't really settle on this. If we go by what the film's cut wants us to think, the shields would probably be still at that exact moment.

I'll give you this, it is hard to tell.

Yeah well we've looked at a certain number of them.

As I am aware.

Considering a BC-304's shields and its railguns, I'm fairly convinced that the TIEs will be like insects. Eventually, the bombers may start to rock the ship, but not that much.

Possibly, but this is one of those cases where sheer numbers may outweigh quality.

Also, what about the Ion cannons? A single (large, grant you) cannon could take down a shield with what looks to be a single shot. (Hoth, fires two shots at an SD, now do you believe it had its shield down?) And a SD has several.
If they can bring down Daedalus's shield, it's done for.

[Col. Shadow Quinn]

is the EU considered canon?

[fugiman]

is the EU considered canon?

To some I think