Why is CGI so expensive?

[Qasim]

Very interesting read thanks a lot guys

[PG15]

lets hear it, why was antartica so hard? and which part?

I'm guessing every part.

[Skydiver]

like folks have said, salaries of the artists...and they are artists. 3d is not easy.

the software, and since there is a relatively limited demand, there aren't many folks making it cheaper (stuff for tv his horribly expensive), the computers

when we got to see rainmaker you get a better idea of hte huge overhead.
electricity, at least 2 of every type of tape deck out there, each of which can be thousands of dollars each, people to run and maintain them, the data storage (rainmaker has terrabytes and terrabytes of storage....that's thousands of gig and people whose sole job is to spend the night/morning moving needed files from point a to point b)

and also...since it's not something that just anyone can do in his/her basement they can set their price. supply and demand. the demand is there and they can meet thier supply

and there is a lot of time involved. rendering a simple 10 second effect can take days, and that's after someone has spent weeks making it

[Skydiver]

after effects is nothing compared to light wave.

i've used after effects to do some spots. nothing special or fancy. some basic 2d animation. once you get used to it, AE is relatively easy.

lightwave however is a PITA. It can do great stuff. I've got a co-worker who's created whole segments of driving animation. and he does a good job. but,t he more stuff you put in there, the more stuff that can 'break'

he never really got into making his own objects, he'd find ready made ones out there, then concentrate on making the environment to use them in.

i will say that it takes time. not only do you have to conceive your idea, you have to tweak and make the program do what you want it to do...then try to figure out where it messes up when it does

[TechnoWraith]

and there is a lot of time involved. rendering a simple 10 second effect can take days, and that's after someone has spent weeks making it

I agree there. I did some simple renders with Maya and a few in Cinema 4D, and it takes like forever (me being the rather impatient type). But the limitations of my computer are partly to blame (as in it's great for gaming, but heavy duty image rendering - it sucks. That's why i'm custom building a dual processor imaging rig).

But yes, time and effort require due compensation. the primary reason why CGI is rather expensive.

[Beatrice Otter]

lets hear it, why was antartica so hard? and which part?

Well, first there's an incredible number of ships and planes. Second, they're all dogfighting--which means each one of them is flying radically differently from all the others which means once the battle starts each one must be animated individually. Third, unlike a space battle where the darkness hides a multitude of flaws, they're over glaciers. Bright, white backgrounds--everything has to be perfect, or you'll see the flaws quite visibly.

All of which means it takes a lot of time to do which means a lot of money.

[TechnoWraith]

Well, first there's an incredible number of whips and planes. Second, they're all dogfighting--which means each one of them is flying radically differently from all the others which means once the battle starts each one must be animated individually. Third, unlike a space battle where the darkness hides a multitude of flaws, they're over glaciers. Bright, white backgrounds--everything has to be perfect, or you'll see the flaws quite visibly.

All of which means it takes a lot of time to do which means a lot of money.

the more objects you put into a rendered sequence, the more time and effort it takes to make that sequence (a no-brainer essentially). In learning to use Maya, the tutorial book has me making 4 characters to place into a short animated sequence. By golly, i'm still having a heck of a time getting the first one made. I'd go insane if i had to make hundreds of objects.

But the Rainmaker crew does have an advantage: they already have existing models of some of the ships, so they can simply scale or re-use most of the Gao'uld ship models. They had to start from scratch for the F-302 fleet, but once a single F-302 was made, they can simply copy and add that object into the sequence. Prometheus is also a re-used model in all likelihood. So there are a couple short cuts Rainmaker can use to make the work a little easier.

When i plan animations (i have plans for about 50 or so), i try to make it so i can re-use or modify existing models and objects. That way, half the work is already done if i choose to use a model or object that already exists.

[Beatrice Otter]

the more objects you put into a rendered sequence, the more time and effort it takes to make that sequence (a no-brainer essentially). In learning to use Maya, the tutorial book has me making 4 characters to place into a short animated sequence. By golly, i'm still having a heck of a time getting the first one made. I'd go insane if i had to make hundreds of objects.

But the Rainmaker crew does have an advantage: they already have existing models of some of the ships, so they can simply scale or re-use most of the Gao'uld ship models. They had to start from scratch for the F-302 fleet, but once a single F-302 was made, they can simply copy and add that object into the sequence. Prometheus is also a re-used model in all likelihood. So there are a couple short cuts Rainmaker can use to make the work a little easier.

When i plan animations (i have plans for about 50 or so), i try to make it so i can re-use or modify existing models and objects. That way, half the work is already done if i choose to use a model or object that already exists.

Yeah, but even using models they've still got to choreograph that whole thing and polish it up. Big job.

[TechnoWraith]

Yeah, but even using models they've still got to choreograph that whole thing and polish it up. Big job.

Yes. Making the stuff is only half the battle. The other half is putting the stuff where you want it and when.

[O'Neil]

Heres a quick example..... I use Cinema 4D to model and animate my 3D stuff.

It took about a week to model my Puddle Jumper (and it still isnt completely finished yet), then I had to set up a scene which consisted of a snow covered field, sky, lighting and the environment. (That took about a day to get it right) Then I had to animate the jumper flying over the field. Next, I had to animate the camera flying with the jumper. Then I had to render it, (which took about 6 hours for a 12 second animation). That was alot of work for a quick 12 second second movie.

Since im learning this kind of stuff, im only using Cinema 4D, After Effects and a few particle programs and then Premiere for final encoding. I havent used lightwave or Maya, which ive been told have a steep learning curve.

[TechnoWraith]

Heres a quick example..... I use Cinema 4D to model and animate my 3D stuff.

It took about a week to model my Puddle Jumper (and it still isnt completely finished yet), then I had to set up a scene which consisted of a snow covered field, sky, lighting and the environment. (That took about a day to get it right) Then I had to animate the jumper flying over the field. Next, I had to animate the camera flying with the jumper. Then I had to render it, (which took about 6 hours for a 12 second animation). That was alot of work for a quick 12 second second movie.

Since im learning this kind of stuff, im only using Cinema 4D, After Effects and a few particle programs and then Premiere for final encoding. I havent used lightwave or Maya, which ive been told have a steep learning curve.

i'm running into the same time constraint with my Maya tutorial project. and that supposed to be a 2 minute sequence! So i'm also building a dual-processor custom imaging rig to handle the brunt work of the rendering process. So until i build that computer, the rendering process will probably be limited to just single scenes or frames.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Yeah, and I heard on the "Behind the Stargate: Secrets Revealed" lowdown, that the of the CGI Artists still live with their moms, now that's just creepy.

[Crichton]

I also heard someone say that there's no such thing as bad CGI- it's all to blame on the lack of budget

Admittedly I have absolutely no knowledge of the inner workings of modern special effects or the process of creating CGI graphics. However, common sense would tell me that there is no doubt in my mind that there is still bad and good CG. First of all you have to design something, deciding what you want to render or create. Everyone knows there is good and bad art. Plus, why should anyone believe that there aren't good and bad CGI artists? The final piece of evidence to support my point, just compare Gollum and one of the stupid aliens from attack of the clones. I don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Lucas was falling behind because of budget.

[O'Neil]

I recently entered a 3D contest on a website. My entry was a 3 minute jet animation flying around, blowing stuff up, and a dogfight. Using my old laptop (466 mhz, 160 MB RAM) it took a few days to model everything... are you ready for this??... it took a month and a half to render out the 3 minutes and 20 seconds of animations.

I definitely need a faster and more effecient PC.

[Crichton]

I recently entered a 3D contest on a website. My entry was a 3 minute jet animation flying around, blowing stuff up, and a dogfight. Using my old laptop (466 mhz, 160 MB RAM) it took a few days to model everything... are you ready for this??... it took a month and a half to render out the 3 minutes and 20 seconds of animations.

I definitely need a faster and more effecient PC.

Yeah, and you probably can't get anywhere close to the best without having to use a Mac.