Death to the Ascended

[True!Ancient]

I don't understand then, why they can't get rid of Anubis. Surely its worth doing him in. He's like the most evil entity ever. The Goauld were creeped out by him. I mean come on. Punishing Oma is one thing, thats ridiculous.

They could of decended him or destroyed him but they left him half ascended for punishment to oma

[atlantean4]

They could of decended him or destroyed him but they left him half ascended for punishment to oma

Hey hey first post! anyway straight to the point as we no the ascended people get there power from people worshipping them well since Anubis had a lot of followers could that have meant that he was powerful enough that he could prevent himself from being de-scended all the way? Just a thought

[FlesHBoX]

Okay, maybe I missed it, but where do we hear that they can't be destroyed? I had kindof taken it when Oma says she can not destroy Anubis to mean that the others would not allow her to... Is this the only time it is mentioned taht an ascended can not be destroyed, or are there others?

[SBacklin]

I want to throw in my two cents here. Yes, it has been said that the Ori are on a mission to obliterate the Ancients/Alterans. The Alterans may be not be doing much now but, I wouldn't discount them so easily quite yet. For all we know the Alterans may see the Ori as some annoyance and nothing more. At at a certain point that "annoyance" will be dealt with but, not until it hits a really sore point. It's all guesses.

As we have seen from previous dealing with the Alterans they do not bother making their business known to us "common" people. So let's keep up hope that the Alterans are very aware of the Ori's intentions and that they don't consider them an immediate threat quite yet but, will deal with them when needed. That's the vibe I seem to get from the Alterans. Until the "final showdown", let's all hope and assume the Alterans will kick ass.

[helio9]

I want to throw in my two cents here. Yes, it has been said that the Ori are on a mission to obliterate the Ancients/Alterans. The Alterans may be not be doing much now but, I wouldn't discount them so easily quite yet. For all we know the Alterans may see the Ori as some annoyance and nothing more. At at a certain point that "annoyance" will be dealt with but, not until it hits a really sore point. It's all guesses.

That is contradicted in the Four Horsement Part 1.

Spoiler:

Orlin says that there is doubt as to whether an attack on the Ori by the Ancients would succeed.

[SBacklin]

That is contradicted in the Four Horsement Part 1.

Spoiler:

Orlin says that there is doubt as to whether an attack on the Ori by the Ancients would succeed.

That doesn't mean the Alterans can't win. If we all know how shows go, the good guys always win somehow. However, I don't think we will see one victor over another. I think it's going to end up being some cosmic balance between good and evil. Although, with TV anything is possible. So who really knows.

[helio9]

That doesn't mean the Alterans can't win. If we all know how shows go, the good guys always win somehow. However, I don't think we will see one victor over another. I think it's going to end up being some cosmic balance between good and evil. Although, with TV anything is possible. So who really knows.

I'm not disputing that, however you said that they the Ancients(Alteraans) may see the Ori as nothing more than an annoyance, and the fact that they have to think twice before attacking them contradicts that.

[Jarnin]

We learned in Threads that one on one, ascended beings power cancel each other out, and their fights will always end in a draw.

However, we also learned that many against one will have no problem laying out the whupass. That's how the "ascended collective" was able to keep Oma, Anubis, Orlin and Athar in check; if they stepped out of line, they'd be struck down.

But the Ori are cheating!

Spoiler:

They're siphoning the "life force" (*gag, cough, spit*) of their mortal followers to gain extra power for themselves. While this power drained from mortals is tiny fraction of almost nothing, the more followers they have, the more power they gain; since they don't actually help their followers to ascend, they keep all the power for themselves.

So you end up with a small number of

Spoiler:

superpowered-

ascended Ori, and a large number of regular ol' ascended Alterans. Right now the playing field is about even. If they take the milky Way, it'll get bad.

If they can hit that bullseye, the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... Checkmate!

[Frumpman]

I just have to vent this idea here or these ideas since it hasn't been discussed... in this thread at least.

1. I don't know whether this is true or not but isn't it possible that one of the reasons that the Ori must siphon they're power from believers to be able to kill the ancients, is that they might actually be on a lower plane of existance than the ancients, since there are many, as have been mentioned before in the show by various people (mainly ascended beings themselves) planes of existance and also that even the ancients search for further enlightenment.
isn't it then possible that even though the Ori as there have been no reference to them ever suffering the plague that the Ancients suffered could infact be many more than the ancients but simply do not have the knowledge that they do and have therefore thus far not made an attempt to directly attack them.

2. As is mentioned and seen in the atlantis show you can trap an ascended being at least on some stage in it's evolution thus making in psssible to manipulate it on some level or another. Isn't it then possible that you can also destroy an ascended being by simply using the enrgy that they consist of up as let's say a powersource for something, personally I don't think it would be that simple but there have to my knowledge never been stated that an ascended being cannot be destroyed by someone of our plane of existance.

[Jarnin]

I just have to vent this idea here or these ideas since it hasn't been discussed... in this thread at least.

1. I don't know whether this is true or not but isn't it possible that one of the reasons that the Ori must siphon they're power from believers to be able to kill the ancients, is that they might actually be on a lower plane of existance than the ancients, since there are many, as have been mentioned before in the show by various people (mainly ascended beings themselves) planes of existance and also that even the ancients search for further enlightenment.
isn't it then possible that even though the Ori as there have been no reference to them ever suffering the plague that the Ancients suffered could infact be many more than the ancients but simply do not have the knowledge that they do and have therefore thus far not made an attempt to directly attack them.

Doubt it. They're ascended, and while the writers have talked about "many planes of existance" I think they're analogies for many worlds, or many galaxies; in other words, they're just other places to ascended beings, not other realms they cannot go.

2. As is mentioned and seen in the atlantis show you can trap an ascended being at least on some stage in it's evolution thus making in psssible to manipulate it on some level or another. Isn't it then possible that you can also destroy an ascended being by simply using the enrgy that they consist of up as let's say a powersource for something, personally I don't think it would be that simple but there have to my knowledge never been stated that an ascended being cannot be destroyed by someone of our plane of existance.

If it were that easy, the entire idea of being a god-like ascended being would suck. What fun is it being god-like if any mortal with technical know-how can destroy you?

[Frumpman]

first of all you'll have to excuse me for not qouting you now as my explorer isn't working properly at the moment but on we go...

1.hm... well of course that would be possible as well but if we look at the different ascended beings that have been shown in the series many of them have different forms now of course again this might depend on alot of different things like maybe what their ambitions or mindets are but as it is said in sg-1 about anubis he's half ascended trapped in some state of ascension which is obviously a lower state than that of the ancients and the Ori also look very deifferent from the ancients now this might just be because they like the way it looks or something like that but the Ori and the Ancients are basically the same species which means that it would make sense for them to look the same on the same state of evolutionary ascension... of course this is meerly speculation but I don't think one can dissmiss it all together?

2. well yes really simply is maybe not a proper way to put it but even if mere mortals could kill an ascended in some complex way the ascended being still has tons of advantages over the mortal being or should I say beings rather which would make it damn tough to kill this god-like being and also what we have to remember is that we are nowhere near as evolved as the Ancients were prior to their ascension which means that a mortal can become a hell of alot more powerfull than what we are and subsequently perhaps even begin to grasp the knowledge of the universe (even if ofcourse not by far as much as an ascended being) and I also think one has to consider that much of what is known about the ascended beings and their strengths are derived from short bursts of demonstration and lore so i don't think we can dissmiss any theory about how this is possible or not before the writers of the show do

[Jarnin]

1.hm... well of course that would be possible as well but if we look at the different ascended beings that have been shown in the series many of them have different forms now of course again this might depend on alot of different things like maybe what their ambitions or mindets are but as it is said in sg-1 about anubis he's half ascended trapped in some state of ascension which is obviously a lower state than that of the ancients

That was Daniel's take on Anubis. It wasn't accurate, and it pisses me off each time he used that description for Anubis.

Being ascended is like being pregnant; you either are, or you're not. There is no in-between.

the Ori also look very deifferent from the ancients now this might just be because they like the way it looks or something like that but the Ori and the Ancients are basically the same species which means that it would make sense for them to look the same on the same state of evolutionary ascension... of course this is meerly speculation but I don't think one can dissmiss it all together?

They're both human. That's why they look alike. Their ascension has nothing to do with them being human before they ascended.

2. well yes really simply is maybe not a proper way to put it but even if mere mortals could kill an ascended in some complex way the ascended being still has tons of advantages over the mortal being or should I say beings rather which would make it damn tough to kill this god-like being and also what we have to remember is that we are nowhere near as evolved as the Ancients were prior to their ascension which means that a mortal can become a hell of alot more powerfull than what we are and subsequently perhaps even begin to grasp the knowledge of the universe (even if ofcourse not by far as much as an ascended being) and I also think one has to consider that much of what is known about the ascended beings and their strengths are derived from short bursts of demonstration and lore so i don't think we can dissmiss any theory about how this is possible or not before the writers of the show do

They're supposed to be nearly all-powerful. They're supposed to be almost omnipresent. They're supposed to be empathic, telekinetic, and wield lightning bolts like you or I would wield a butter knife.
It's easy for them to control the weather. It's easy for them to destroy hive ships by thinking about it. And it's easy for them to kill anybody that might cause them problems later on down the line.

The entire concept of normal people "killing" an ascended being is laughable. If the writers of Stargate ever try to jump a shark that big, they'll be commiting career suicide. Having the ascended beings brought down to a "mortal" level would destroy the entire concept of being ascended.

[Turboz]

Hmm some interesting points here.

Surely though if the ancients are energy, you could simply ground them and drain their energy by attaching them to a electrically grounded object? - That would mean that they could not survive on Atlantis because it was also grounded to ensure safety from lightning..

Hmm.

SBacklin, in Stargate WE (The earth people) are the good guys. As long as WE win other bad things do happen - remember anubis destroying abydos?

Who's to say that the Ori won't destroy the Ancients? - As long as we win eventually it could be quite plausable that the ancients ARE destroyed in order to keep people viewing to see how the war is won.

-Turboz

[cafine_us]

SBacklin, in Stargate WE (The earth people) are the good guys. As long as WE win other bad things do happen - remember anubis destroying abydos?

Who's to say that the Ori won't destroy the Ancients? - As long as we win eventually it could be quite plausable that the ancients ARE destroyed in order to keep people viewing to see how the war is won.

-Turboz

How could we possibly win once the Ancients are destroyed? The only thing(s) preventing the Ori from completely obliterating us right now are our lovely and talented Ancients. With them, we only need to handle the priors. Without them, we're screwed. If it's even possible to destroy an ascended being, we're certainly not advanced enough to do it.

[lethalfang]

So, in a number of threads discussing the Ancients, Ori et al, people have stated that the Ascended can not be killed. Their argument is that Ascended beings are pure energy and energy can not be destroyed, but I was wondering: I don't recall it ever being stated - either as fact or as assumption - that the Ascended are indestructible.

Can anybody point me towards such a reference?

When a human die, is the matter destroyed?