Bouncing Between Gates

[Dylan Deltoran]

Wow...lots of physics stuff...anyway...ummm someone mentioned an 8th chevron before, and I'd like to speculate about a 9th chevron (I'm sure someone has already but I don't feel like going through the entire forums to find it)...how much further out or what galaxy or galactic cluster do you think would be a 9th chevron adress?

[Ollock]

Unfortunatley, to my mind, it is not the case that the wormholes seen in stargate do not interact with mudanse matter and space. This can be seen from the episodes "1969" and "Red Sky.

In "1969" A wormhole interacted with a solar flare in such a way the the detination was continuously varied depending on the time at which one entered the gate. (See specificly the second and third travels of that episode.)

In the episode "Red Sky", a wormhole introduced certainly elements that were incompatible with continued stellar fusion. the was latter corrrected by having another wormhole with other elements pass through that same star and disengage in wuch a way that those elements re-materialized within the star. (At least that is the theory.)

Thus we see that the path and structure of the wormhole can and does interact with ordinary space and matter to a limited extent. Ollock, your question remains. How could one use a third stargate in the manner described by Stan in the post that that created this thread.

Hmm, very interesting. I don't think I can counter the solar flare argument, though it could have something to do with the electomagnetic properties of such events. The effect in Red Sky, however, I think could be because the wormhole 'spits out' matter in whatever corresponding realspace as it collapses. I'm not on comfortable scientific grounds with that one though. might have to do some research later.

I may be wrong, and I would welcome any corrections or further illumination, but according to current, real life physics theorys. A Wormhole if created would not be surrounded by an even horizon. In fact, I beleive that it has been suggestted that this is one reason why wormholes cannot naturely exist, or possibly even created. The idea is that "feedback" between the two opening would lead towards infinite energy densities within the wormhole pinching it off. I believe it has been suggested that this may not completely preclude wormholes, but that it would create a minimum distance between the two entrances.

However, Olleck, you question was concerning an event horizon with establishing a wormhole. I believe you were referring to the protocol I wrote concerning a means to travel btween MW and pegasus without the need for a worm-hole connection that lasts for any great amount of time. For clarity I will include that protocol.

Quote:
What if we consider the question - How might the stargates be used to travel between earth and Atlantis without using a ZPM?

I wish to offer one scenario. It draws upon my previous "bouncing" proposal. I will assume that the following are possible:

1) A person can be loaded in a stargate's send buffer.
2) An outgoing wormhole can be established without clearing the buffer.
3) A useful amount of information can be transfered from the sending buffer to the receiving buffer in a very short amount of time.

These are only 3 features of a stargate that are necessarily for the following intergalactic travel scheme. For example, to travel from atlantis to earth one would do the following.

1) Establish the protocol on both ends.
2) Load the people and objects you want to send into the atlantis gate send buffer.
3) Connect to the earth stargate in the same way as message in the bottle, taking care that the send buffer is not cleared in the process.
4) In the miniscule time that the wormhole is active the contents of the send buffer are transfered to the receive buffer.
5) According to this protocol, the earth gate will not materialize these people and objects -- The event horizon wouldn't last long enough in case to do so. Instead the earth gate creates a not connecting event horizon after the wormhole disengages and then travelers are rematerialized


Specifically is it possible to create a not connecting Event Horizon so that both people can be loaded into a stargate's buffer, and so that people can be recovered froma stargate buffer? The answer has been provided in the episode "48 hours." In this episode, the establish a not connecting event horizon to recover Tea'c who had become trapped within the buffer.

We must then ask our selves what is this event horizon. It is not necessarily associated with wormholes, rather it seems to associated with the transformation between objects and information suitable for storage and transmission. The definition is consistent with the even seen in Altantis's "38 minutes". That is, once an object passed through the even horizon it could no longer interact with objects on the other side. This fits with the generally understood definition of an event horizon.

For completeness I will include the "Bouncing Protocol." This is the reason I came back to this thread. "Prototype" showed that the condition I describe as necessary, are in fact possible in the stargate world.

To be honest, I don't think I've heard the term 'event horizon' used in conjunction with wormholes all that much. I have read a couple of theories that indicate an 'opening' (one of which talks about a 'flat' or 'two-dimentional' opening similar to the event horizons seen in Stargate). Unfotunately I missed "Prototype" and have never seen "48 Hours", so I'm not certain about what they reveal.

[LiquidBlue]

On November 9th, 2004, in the "Traveling to Atlantis" thread I wrote.

What prevented the Wraith from gating into Atlantis as the atlantis team did? The city shield was active, preventing the wraith from gaining access from the outside, but the iris shield was not active, thus allowing the Atlantis team to arrive... More than likely the Wraith know the Atlantis gate address. That of course leaves the question of why the Wraith never gated into Atlantis during those thousands of years it lay abandoned on the the ocean floor.

Now that we have seen that it is possible to differentiate between travelers and selectively rematerialize them, perhaps we have an answer to this question.

The ancients left the iris shield deactivated when they left, but they included a program to exclude wraith travelers. Thus the Atlantis team was not met by the iris shield when they first arrived, but any attempts by the wraith during that ~10,000 year interval to gate to atlantis failed.

This, opens another question. We have seen wraith travelers destroyed by the iris. Specificly, Wraith darts in "Rising". What happened to the program? It would not stretch the imagination to believe that upon the arrival of the atlantis team, the computer transitioned from one mode to another -- this is seen in "Rising." The Wraith exclusion program was part of the "sleep" mode but is not part of the "active" mode.

Ignoring for a second that "Out of phase" is a complete joke, even those travellers would have to be made of either matter or energy, and thus would register when travelling through.

Exactly. The iris does not protect against "out of phase" travelers. Thus the only way to protect against them would be to use the Anubis-like system to prevent them from rematerializing at all.

[Three PhDs]

Now that we have seen that it is possible to differentiate between travelers and selectively rematerialize them, perhaps we have an answer to this question.

The ancients left the iris shield deactivated when they left, but they included a program to exclude wraith travelers. Thus the Atlantis team was not met by the iris shield when they first arrived, but any attempts by the wraith during that ~10,000 year interval to gate to atlantis failed.

This, opens another question. We have seen wraith travelers destroyed by the iris. Specificly, Wraith darts in "Rising". What happened to the program? It would not stretch the imagination to believe that upon the arrival of the atlantis team, the computer transitioned from one mode to another -- this is seen in "Rising." The Wraith exclusion program was part of the "sleep" mode but is not part of the "active" mode.



Exactly. The iris does not protect against "out of phase" travelers. Thus the only way to protect against them would be to use the Anubis-like system to prevent them from rematerializing at all.

In that case, there'd be nothing to stop the wraith sending a probe then using that to remotely deactivate security. If you ask me, the gate could only dial earth and receive incoming wormholes from Earth. Seems the safest way to do it.

[jonno]

This is just a theory, with no show related sources.

Perhaps there is another 'operation' of the stargate which allows you to follow a route via many stargates.

Perhaps this involves the ninth chevron.

My theory goes like this:
Enter (on your DHD) a specific 9 symbol sequence (not necesserily including the PoO), which causes the gate to switch to 'multi-gate travel mode.' Then press the big red button.
Then enter a long sequence of the 7 (or possibly even 8) symbols for each gate you wish to go through. Then press the big red button AGAIN. The gate activates, you step through and, as normal, you go to the planet you want, just via several stargates.

So, for example, to go from the earth alpha site to the Genii homeworld, via the atlantis gate, dial as follows:
A 9 sequence code activating 'multi gate mode'
The big red button
The 7 sequence code for Atlantis + the PoO of the alpha site immediately followed by the 6 sequence pegasus code for the Genii homeworld + the PoO of the alpha site
The big red button (again)
Step through

This raises the possibility of the Wraith dialling Earth, via Atlantis from one of their own gates (assuming they have a ZPM)

It also raises the possibility for additional gate modes, each with a distinctive preceding 9 sequence code.

[GreatSpinningRoundThing]

Given protype gate tech and assuming that we could use a avengerlike program to overwrite default gate function, what could we do?

How about weapon sequestering? I first thought it the Prior's staves probably have an easily recognizable signature and could be preferentially sequested, but since the Tollan show that weapons in general can be recognized, perhaps it could be possible to instruct the entire gate network to sequester all weapons not authorized by the SGC. (Okay that is a bit outlandish)

How about Seiges? With Avenger one could make it disable a gate from initating an outgoing wormhole, if one could remotely install the prototype rejection function then it would be possible to prevent incoming wormholes. The same effect was suggested early, but it would have required reprogramming the entire gate network, and even then those with custum DHDs would not have been affected.

A modification of the load and transmit technique might allow gate travel to the Ori galaxy. Even if such a connection could only just be made, it might allow the passage of a couple, or a team, of travelers.

One of the most immediately useful modifications was the suggestion to modify the gate network so that it transmitted information about all gate activity to earth. With the prototype revelations, such information might not only include origin, destination, and duration, but also number of travels and travel composition.

Or how about something simple, straight from Reckoning:

Use the multiple gate dialing function to dial all of the gates in the galaxy, use a holographic projecture then to transmit Radio Earth which includes a nice illustrated section on what the Priors do to those who reject them, what life under their rule is like, and their plans for the galaxy.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Nope. Not gonna fly.

[Lt. Col. Mcoy]

Given protype gate tech and assuming that we could use a avengerlike program to overwrite default gate function, what could we do?

How about weapon sequestering? I first thought it the Prior's staves probably have an easily recognizable signature and could be preferentially sequested, but since the Tollan show that weapons in general can be recognized, perhaps it could be possible to instruct the entire gate network to sequester all weapons not authorized by the SGC. (Okay that is a bit outlandish)

How about Seiges? With Avenger one could make it disable a gate from initating an outgoing wormhole, if one could remotely install the prototype rejection function then it would be possible to prevent incoming wormholes. The same effect was suggested early, but it would have required reprogramming the entire gate network, and even then those with custum DHDs would not have been affected.

A modification of the load and transmit technique might allow gate travel to the Ori galaxy. Even if such a connection could only just be made, it might allow the passage of a couple, or a team, of travelers.

One of the most immediately useful modifications was the suggestion to modify the gate network so that it transmitted information about all gate activity to earth. With the prototype revelations, such information might not only include origin, destination, and duration, but also number of travels and travel composition.

Or how about something simple, straight from Reckoning:

Use the multiple gate dialing function to dial all of the gates in the galaxy, use a holographic projecture then to transmit Radio Earth which includes a nice illustrated section on what the Priors do to those who reject them, what life under their rule is like, and their plans for the galaxy.

This has got style, though.