Naming Discussions for Teyla, Elizabeth & John

[TameFarrar]

That's exactly what I meant because if you say Elizabeth looks old, you are bashing Torri and we have had enough of that through the years. But if you can say she is too old, then that's just stating an untruth because she isn't older that we know of. This will only allow people to bash her indirectly.

I'm vastly relieved by your last statement. I for one don't plan to bash, criticize or comment on the physical appearance of anyone in a negative way. And I'd like to call on everyone else to make the same pledge.

This is a concern I also share. The "I think she looks too old" / "I feel she is too old" line is a very thin one and leads into indirect actress bashing, which is something I really don't want to see on this forum again.

Just to be clear here folks can say they feel or it is their opinion that Elizabeth is too old for John...as that is a subjective thing and I don't think the show ever really made a point to state the character ages...and to some women should or should not be older then the man...in age... So as I said that is a subjective thing and we apply it only as a *character interpretation* when it is stated that way

However, when it is stated as Elizabeth LOOKS too old...you are correct..that is an indirect insult to Torri herself because it is her face as a person as well as an actress and it can not be interpreted in any other way. It IS her face.

ETA: I realize that this is semantics for some or just a *PC* way of saying something...but please keep in mind we are not mind or motive readers so we do have to find a stopping point in regards to just how we interpret things in order to allow folks to state their opinion.

[Scary Kitty]

Just to be clear here folks can say they feel or it is their opinion that Elizabeth is too old for John...as that is a subjective thing and I don't think the show ever really made a point to state the character ages...and to some women should or should not be older then the man...in age... So as I said that is a subjective thing and we apply it only as a *character interpretation* when it is stated that way

As I recall, weren't Sheppard and Weir both listed on the casting sides as being in their mid-to-late 30s? I know that's not the same as actually stating their ages on the show itself, but in the absence of a line in the script, that's probably as close to an official source as we're going to get. So if that information is correct, they're approximately the same age with neither one more than a couple of years older or younger than the other.

Hmm, perhaps someone will have to ask Mallozzi on his blog for a ruling on the subject?

However, when it is stated as Elizabeth LOOKS too old...you are correct..that is an indirect insult to Torri herself because it is her face as a person as well as an actress and it can not be interpreted in any other way. It IS her face.

ETA: I realize that this is semantics for some or just a *PC* way of saying something...but please keep in mind we are not mind or motive readers so we do have to find a stopping point in regards to just how we interpret things in order to allow folks to state their opinion.

And thank you for making it clear from the beginning that there will be a strict line. Hopefully that will prevent some of the problems that have come up in the past and that some of us fear could be trouble spots in the future.

[CazzBlade]

As I recall, weren't Sheppard and Weir both listed on the casting sides as being in their mid-to-late 30s? I know that's not the same as actually stating their ages on the show itself, but in the absence of a line in the script, that's probably as close to an official source as we're going to get. So if that information is correct, they're approximately the same age with neither one more than a couple of years older or younger than the other.

Casting sides mean nothing. The casting sides for Tuvok in Star Trek Voyager said he was a Grandfather who developed a special bond with Torres. Neither of which turned out to be true/canon.

And I won't say anything more as that is totally not the topic of the thread

Tame, for the second title for Teyla, I think the title is great But from the title I'd just think it was a Teyla discussion thread, not an anti-ship thread

[TameFarrar]

As I recall, weren't Sheppard and Weir both listed on the casting sides as being in their mid-to-late 30s? I know that's not the same as actually stating their ages on the show itself, but in the absence of a line in the script, that's probably as close to an official source as we're going to get. So if that information is correct, they're approximately the same age with neither one more than a couple of years older or younger than the other.

Hmm, perhaps someone will have to ask Mallozzi on his blog for a ruling on the subject?

That could be but as I said we do have to draw a line somewhere in order to allow folks to voice their opinion if that is the reason.
Some folks feel that the man should always be definitely older while others feel that the woman should be older. It may not be your personal preference but for them that is the way things should be.
So voicing a subjective item as the reason shouldn't get them a slap.
We can all make our own assumptions of their mind set or intentions, but unless it is very clear in the post...it is wrong for the staff or for a member to decide what another person is thinking if they haven't explicitly expressed that.

And thank you for making it clear from the beginning that there will be a strict line. Hopefully that will prevent some of the problems that have come up in the past and that some of us fear could be trouble spots in the future.

You're welcome thankfully there are some things that are not subjective and are not separate from the actor so are therefore not fair game. Makes it a little bit easier for us...a teeny little bit

[Lucylee]

Silly Name suggestions:
Teyla Emmagen - Awesome on Her Own
Teyla Emmagen - Awesome, not Twosome
Teylat Emmagen - Holdin' out for a Hero - NOT

[Southern Red]

How about John Sheppard: Solitary Man?

[TameFarrar]

Those are NOT silly I think they are awesome

[TameFarrar]

How about John Sheppard: Solitary Man?

LOL Darren and David would be proud

[Southern Red]

LOL Darren and David would be proud

I'm flattered.

[TameFarrar]

Ok here is the updated list of naming suggestions

For Liz
Elizabeth Weir - Leader of Atlantis, not a girlfriend.

For John
John Sheppard - Who can surpass the hair?
John Sheppard - Flyboys like to Touch and Go (play on flight codes)
John Sheppard - Teh Hair stands alone!
John Sheppard - Don't touch Teh Hair!
John Sheppard - Solitary Man

For Teyla
Teyla Emmagan - Warrior, Woman and Mother. Boys on the side.
Teyla Emmagan - Warrior Goddess, Whumper of the Universe.
Teyla Emmagen - Awesome on Her Own
Teyla Emmagen - Awesome, not Twosome
Teyla Emmagen - Holdin' out for a Hero - NOT

[Scary Kitty]

Another name for an Elizabeth thread that I considered was Elizabeth Weir - The Virgin Queen (reference to England's Elizabeth I, who never married), but that might be too esoteric for some.

That could be but as I said we do have to draw a line somewhere in order to allow folks to voice their opinion if that is the reason.
Some folks feel that the man should always be definitely older while others feel that the woman should be older. It may not be your personal preference but for them that is the way things should be.
So voicing a subjective item as the reason shouldn't get them a slap.
We can all make our own assumptions of their mind set or intentions, but unless it is very clear in the post...it is wrong for the staff or for a member to decide what another person is thinking if they haven't explicitly expressed that.

Well, I'm not talking about what opinions people may have on the character age issue, I'm talking about a possible source of canon-to-semi-canon information about the character ages that you and your fellow mods might be able to use as a guideline for discussion. Or not. Whatever you like.

You're welcome thankfully there are some things that are not subjective and are not separate from the actor so are therefore not fair game. Makes it a little bit easier for us...a teeny little bit

True, that.

As it is, I do not think I will be participating in any of these new threads. While the idea of putting together people who support or do not support certain pairings involving a certain character in a single thread focused on that character-in-common is very noble and I wish the effort well, the fact that relations between some of those opposing ship groups have never been very good... frankly, I'm just not convinced it's going to work as well as hoped. Yes, we can put people on ignore lists and try to skip over opposing posts, but it feels too much like trying to navigate a minefield, and that's not a particularly positive or friendly environment to be in. So I guess all I can say is, good luck, and I hope everything works out for the best.

[Killdeer]

When you say you want to encourage discussion between different points of view, exactly what do you mean by that? If someone says "I think Shep/Teyla is a bad idea because of reasons A, B, and C", is someone else allowed to come along and criticize that opinion?

[TameFarrar]

Another name for an Elizabeth thread that I considered was Elizabeth Weir - The Virgin Queen (reference to England's Elizabeth I, who never married), but that might be too esoteric for some.

Hey a suggestion is a suggestion and we take 'em all

Well, I'm not talking about what opinions people may have on the character age issue, I'm talking about a possible source of canon-to-semi-canon information about the character ages that you and your fellow mods might be able to use as a guideline for discussion. Or not. Whatever you like.

well I definitely didn't want to sound like we don't thank you and anyone else for information that helps us ...But I did want to be really clear about what I meant

True, that.

As it is, I do not think I will be participating in any of these new threads. While the idea of putting together people who support or do not support certain pairings involving a certain character in a single thread focused on that character-in-common is very noble and I wish the effort well, the fact that relations between some of those opposing ship groups have never been very good... frankly, I'm just not convinced it's going to work as well as hoped. Yes, we can put people on ignore lists and try to skip over opposing posts, but it feels too much like trying to navigate a minefield, and that's not a particularly positive or friendly environment to be in. So I guess all I can say is, good luck, and I hope everything works out for the best.

well..you could very well be right in this thought.
It is completely and I do mean COMPLETELY up to the people that post in the threads to be decent, mature, civil, accountable and respectful. If they don't do that first and foremost the thread will be modded heavily and then eventually closed.

However, if the only issue for some is just that they don't want to *see* a negative post regarding a character they like...then sadly the only recourse is exactly what you are saying and the best thing we could suggest as well

[TameFarrar]

When you say you want to encourage discussion between different points of view, exactly what do you mean by that? If someone says "I think Shep/Teyla is a bad idea because of reasons A, B, and C", is someone else allowed to come along and criticize that opinion?

no, they are not allowed to criticize your opinion.

They can however disagree with you and ask you to explain or clarify something in your post or with your thoughts.

Example -
your post
I don't think John has any romantic chemistry with Teyla. They give off a brother sister vibe to me.

my response in disagreement
I don't see a sibling vibe with John and Teyla, can you give some examples of what you saw as brother/sister. I saw the back and forth tension between them as more emotional chemistry and here is why......yadda yadda yadda



This would be an example of how I could disagree with your assessment but in no way be disrespectful to YOU or the fact that you have a right to have teh opinion you have. But open up the floor for some discussion

[Killdeer]

my response in disagreement
I don't see a sibling vibe with John and Teyla, can you give some examples of what you saw as brother/sister. I saw the back and forth tension between them as more emotional chemistry and here is why......yadda yadda yadda



This would be an example of how I could disagree with your assessment but in no way be disrespectful to YOU or the fact that you have a right to have teh opinion you have. But open up the floor for some discussion

Wouldn't that be considered a defense of their own ship though? I was under the impression that you'd said earlier that this thread was not the place for that.