GateWorld's Vision Statement .Suggestions welcome

[Rosehawk]

To be honest, I don't feel that the Anti threads themselves are the real issue with all the snarkiness and harassment that has been happening on GW. It's nice that the Anti's have their own thread because there have been alot of significant happenings with SGA that has had people justifiably upset.
I admit the Anti-threads scare me a bit and to see some of my friends go there was a bit of a surprise, however, it gave them a channel to voice their concerns, to vent without derailing the threads that we frequent, or use to frequent together. I also see alot of humor on those threads as well. I would think that the terms 'Pro' and 'Anti' are probably not the best names for those threads as those words themselves tend to poloraize people. In all honesty I am not sure how those threads should be titled, maybe they should discuss that amoungst their own threads to determine a name that reflects the thread but may be less provoking to others.

The real issue IMO, is when those posters choose to take their viewpoints off the anti or the pro threads start cramming their viewpoint onto other posters. That will continue regardless of what a thread is titled or who is posting in the thread.

Instead of shutting down the Pro- and Anti-threads, I would much rather there be focus on some of the episode threads. I like to have discussion on those threads but tend to stay away from them most of the time because I get tired of the same people over and over again posting the same negative comments, instead of having discusson. I don't mind the 'I didn't like.....however I really really tired of reading things like - 'oh, they were so stupid, another recycled episode' and struggle to understand how words and statements like that add value to a conversation.

Maybe instead of shutting down threads, they could be a way to have a short vision statement about respect and courtesy show up on each thread, something that shows up at the top of each page, not something that you have to click on to read, something that stands out, like a banner so that it is there in plain sight for others to see. - It's just a suggestion, I find that by keeping something out there it is much easier to enforce then making people go back to a thread or remember rules that you agreed to when you first joined.

[WraithWatcher]

Again, though, let's focus on the initial changed with SGU and not borrow trouble about C&R until we have to.

I have to disagree with this purely because you are talking about changing the forum as a whole eventually, therefore people have concerns re how their threads are going to be assessed & treated.

this decision for the Vision Statement will eventually affect ALL areas therefore people have the right to be concerned about all aspects of the forum NOW

If they forget about the c&R threads for now because you say that we aren't focusing on this area yet, once the vision statement is in place they will pass the same rules through to all areas & then you'll be stating that you've had these rules in place for a while & everyone knew they would be affected eventually without giving them the chance to vent their concerns now.

if you are going to introduce new rulings, it is only fair that all areas are affected in the same manner & no favoritism should be shown to C&R threads because that is a double standard to all the members you guys are p*ssing off with your current statement

I don't even know why you guys bothered opening up a discussion to the members about this Vision statement because after reading many peoples displeasure in what you want to do it is obvious you guys don't care what we think because you guys have your mind set on going ahead with it anyway so go ahead & turn GW into a dictatorship where you censor the negative discussions & only keep the lovey dovey crap

I have tried to be nice in every post as per the new "VISION STATEMENT" with my "NEGATIVE VIEWS" but as expected half these views have been ignored anyway like our posts will be in a general discussion thread because other people who shared those same views wouldn't be bothered wading through all the pros that they disagreed on to find the one or two negatives seeing we'd be deprived of congregating in one place to share our views (How about all the pro members post their positive view & then move on, talk about a blatantly rude & arrogant vision)

there are plenty of non discriminate sites out there, so basically I'll go find one where EVERY Fan is welcomed & not discriminated against by GKK (Gateworld Klux Klan)

& if you think my post is rude, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OPINION & you can thank the mods in this thread who are refusing to actually LISTEN to the membership & have already set their minds to this change like TPTB did with the cancellation of SGA & announcement of SGU

what an absolute joke.

I'll probably come back online later to find this negative post removed because it didn't fit their Vision seeing they prefer censorship over common sense & if you don't see me it means I've been banned because I didn't fit their narrow minded dictatorship views

[amconway]

I'll go find one where every Fan is welcomed & not discriminated against by GKK (Gateworld Klux Klan)

Oh, come on now! That's a tad inflammatory, don't you think? You're illustrating the need for the vision statement more than you are making a powerful argument against it.

Maybe instead of shutting down threads, they could be a way to have a short vision statement about respect and courtesy show up on each thread, something that shows up at the top of each page, not something that you have to click on to read, something that stands out, like a banner so that it is there in plain sight for others to see. - It's just a suggestion, I find that by keeping something out there it is much easier to enforce then making people go back to a thread or remember rules that you agreed to when you first joined.

While I don't personally have a problem with the notion of shutting down threads that encourage self-imposed divisions within the forum (and to my mind, implicit permission to be hostile to other points of view), I certainly agree that this would be a very good idea. Excellent suggestion.

[WraithWatcher]

Oh, come on now! That's a tad inflammatory, don't you think? You're illustrating the need for the vision statement more than you are making a powerful argument against it.

Actually I feel I am proving a point about the discrimination & censorship of the Vision Statement because yes I lost my temper & said some harsh things but that was because the mods refuse to acknowledge that there is apprehension re this new vision & forced me to get angry AS will most likely happen in Pro threads when Anti people lose their tempers & vise versa because they can't have their own place to vent & have to tolerate PRO discussions going around in circles like this thread has done

The Pro's all for this Vision are refusing to accept our annoyance & continue to force their vision upon us, the Anti's (Those against the vision) are not being listened to which is exactly what I can see happening in all discussion threads where you guys are dictating that the Anti's MUST post

I just set a prime example of what happens when Anti's & Pro's don't get along so thank you for helping me prove a point.

If we can't get along in this thread (Discussion thread) because the Pros refuse to acknowledge the Anti's views then how the heck are we supposed to get along in a General discussion area where we are supposed to limit our Anti posts to because you guys refuse to give us our own space?

[amconway]

Actually I feel I am proving a point about the discrimination & censorship of the Vision Statement because yes I lost my temper & said some harsh things but that was because the mods refuse to acknowledge that there is apprehension re this new vision & forced me to get angry AS will most likely happen in Pro threads when Anti people lose their tempers & vise versa because they can't have their own place to vent & have to tolerate PRO discussions going around in circles like this thread has done

The Pro's all for this Vision are refusing to accept our annoyance & continue to force their vision upon us, the Anti's (Those against the vision) are not being listened to which is exactly what I can see happening in all discussion threads where you guys are dictating that the Anti's MUST post

I just set a prime example of what happens when Anti's & Pro's don't get along so thank you for helping me prove a point.

If we can't get along in this thread (Discussion thread) because the Pros refuse to acknowledge the Anti's views then how the heck are we supposed to get along in a General discussion area where we are supposed to limit our Anti posts to?

Sorry, I don't see that at all. Civility isn't something that you can toss out the window because you lose your temper. If people did that face to face, as they seem to feel free to do online, there would be pitched battles in the streets.

[Reefgirl]

I'll probably come back online later to find this negative post removed because it didn't fit their Vision seeing they prefer censorship over common sense & if you don't see me it means I've been banned because I didn't fit their narrow minded dictatorship views

I've been thinking this for sometime, either that or I'll come back one day and find out the forum has been re-named Gateworld: Brady Bunch.

You and I will no doubt be consigned to the same pit of hell for this so I find a comfey corner for us

[WraithWatcher]

Sorry, I don't see that at all. Civility isn't something that you can toss out the window because you lose your temper. If people did that face to face, as they seem to feel free to do online, there would be pitched battles in the streets.

That's your opinion & you've seen mine, I can't be bothered arguing anymore because none of it matters, you guys have your minds set & again half my above post was ignored, funny how you guys always find the negatives in each post to respond to whilst ignoring the actual complaints & the majority of peoples concerns

All you need to do is look at my previous postings on this forum before this thread was created & you'd see I'm usually a civil person but when people insist on forcing their views & beliefs onto me whilst refusing to look at why so many people are annoyed at what they are doing / planning to do then I do not have to stand for it NOR justify myself as you people insist we have to do

And actually Yes, I would say it face to face because I am not a coward to vent when people p*ss me off

[WraithWatcher]

I've been thinking this for sometime, either that or I'll come back one day and find out the forum has been re-named Gateworld: Brady Bunch.

You and I will no doubt be consigned to the same pit of hell for this so I find a comfey corner for us

hahaha, I'll go get us some fire resistant cushions & we can sit & watch through the flames

[Reefgirl]

hahaha, I'll go get us some fire resistant cushions & we can sit & watch through the flames

I'm sure we won't be lonely for long

[RealmOfX]

Actually I feel I am proving a point about the discrimination & censorship of the Vision Statement because yes I lost my temper & said some harsh things but that was because the mods refuse to acknowledge that there is apprehension re this new vision & forced me to get angry AS will most likely happen in Pro threads when Anti people lose their tempers & vise versa because they can't have their own place to vent & have to tolerate PRO discussions going around in circles like this thread has done

The Pro's all for this Vision are refusing to accept our annoyance & continue to force their vision upon us, the Anti's (Those against the vision) are not being listened to which is exactly what I can see happening in all discussion threads where you guys are dictating that the Anti's MUST post

I just set a prime example of what happens when Anti's & Pro's don't get along so thank you for helping me prove a point.

If we can't get along in this thread (Discussion thread) because the Pros refuse to acknowledge the Anti's views then how the heck are we supposed to get along in a General discussion area where we are supposed to limit our Anti posts to because you guys refuse to give us our own space?

Well you have proved a point but not the one you have stated. Basically accept responsibility for what you post and what you posted was against the forum rules, the KKK reference was a deliberate insult. Stop making excuses for your actions. Start expressing your opinion politely and respectfully and express your opinion and your opinion alone. I am so tired of seeing people speaking as if they were representing whole groups of people "we antis", "we pros", "the fans". It's what the Vision Statement is all about getting rid of hate, intolerance and bullying.

You have concerns so go ahead and express them politely. However I must admit that I do not share your concern about censorship.

For me I am a fan of Stargate though I am extremely critical of certain parts of the franchise and participate in Anti threads so if you are labelling people then I suppose I'm "an Anti" though I prefer to call myself a fan who has some critical views. So what does the new vision mean for me?

It means that I'll no longer be able to post in the Anti S10 thread in the SG-1 forum (I gave up on the Anti threads in SGA a while ago). Though I hardly do that anymore after all SG-1 is over and done with. So where will I post in future? In the same places I post now except that particular thread and maybe more in the episode discussion threads and the General discussion thread. It isn't a problem, I don't have to silence my distaste for certain aspects, all that is required of me is that I do so with respect and tolerate people with other opinions and not indulge in behaviour patterns that got GW to the point it is now.

It means that with SGU starting up I'll watch the show and decide if I like it enough to keep watching (and if I'm watching it there has to be some level of enjoyment I'm getting out of it). I can offer my opinion whether it be praise or criticism but if I decide I don't like it at all then I am asked to please state my case and then go find a sub forum where I am a fan. If I don't like it at all I might put a post or two into General discussion about how the problems I perceive with the writing crew persisted over to the new show but I won't be harping on it endlessly repeating the same things and trying to hijack threads to get my opinion across.

My opinion won't be censored.

Actually I am finding your intolerance just as annoying as several of the "pros" pontificating about how the anti threads are the problem. I was initially worried about the wording of the Vision Statement but the GW team have acknowledge that concern of some people and will look at it when Darren gets back. I'll hold any further objections in that regard until I see the next draft.

[amconway]

half my above post was ignored, funny how you guys always find the negatives in each post to respond to whilst ignoring the actual complaints & the majority of peoples concerns

People have tried to discuss this with you, but you have not provided any examples of a concrete problem, of how your discussion would be silenced by expressing your views with respect for other's equally valid views. That makes it difficult. A general argument of censorship doesn't work, because no one is saying that you can't have your opinions, just that you will have to maintain a certain consideration for others. And I'm not seeing that you are making any effort to understand the opposing viewpoint here.

I do not have to stand for it NOR justify myself as you people insist we have to do

Hmmm. I've never been 'you people' before. Interesting. No, you don't have to justify yourself, but if you don't debate in a manner that allows for the possibility of finding common ground, then you can't be surprised when you find none.

And actually Yes, I would say it face to face because I am not a coward to vent when people p*ss me off

If it's cowardly to try and stand up for your point of view, without instigating personal attacks, or trying to injure the other party, then color me a coward.

[kiwigater]

True. Something else I can't quite get my head round is, why is there none of the 'Negitive' behaviour on any of the other forums on GW, Admittedly I haven't lurked in all of them so I'll use the DW forum as an example (sorry), to my knowledge there hasn't been an 'Anti' anyone/thing/series thread, none of the weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth when a character was killed off or an actor left, dramatic changes have been accepted with out threats to 'get' TPTB, even "OMG SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and "OMG That Sucked" (without explaination) have been kept to a minimum. There have been no shipping/fan wars, I don't even think there's been any trolling. Why is that so? We're on the same boards, a lot of the same people post there as here, why can one section of the forum behave in a way that the Vision Statement wants and another can't, it's always intregued me.


I'd go and get my SG-1 DVD's from my room if I could be bothered, so I guess I'll stay here. I'd love apathy If I could be bothered

That's a really interesting question. I have a couple of theories.....

Firstly is that DW fans are USED to change. Heck, Dr Who is based on the main character changing faces every few years! I think there's a real feeling that if you don't like a character wait a while and they'll most likely disappear. Whereas SG1 had a very stable cast for years and years, and while that was great it's meant that I think we are more "affected" by change. But the flip side is the new incarnation's only been around 4 years, and for all of that had a pretty core PTB/crew, let's see how the fandom deals with the way a new show runner does things. Seeing as we're used to change in DW I wouldn't anticipate problems, but it'll be interesting to see the reaction...

Secondly, as mentioned before, the series has been around soooo long, and prior to the last incarnation, 20 years in the hands of fans, I wonder if the fan base is so much wider and has so many adult fans in their 30's and 40's and older, who are less prone to the "OMG SQEEEEEE" factor.

Thirdly, I think there's differences in the way the fandoms have "grownup" SG fandom has come of age in era of the internet. We're used to instantaneous gratification of our "need" to express ourselves, our opinions etc. After all, that's exactly what this site facilitates. That's how I found my way here in the first place, wanting to hear what other fans thought of an episode immediately after it aired. Dr Who fandom has only recently had that, but existed for years and years without it.

And lastly (I know, I can go on ), there's a different level of interaction between the PTB/cast/crew and the fans. I love how much the SG team interacts with the fans, it's generous and lovely of them (well, except for the pot stirring that sometimes goes on...), BUT I think it's led to more of a sense of entitlement - a sort of "I know they're listening so they should do things THIS way"...

Right, I'm done. Maybe in thinking about why we are the way we are can help us make decisions about how to get rid of the hostility on the site (how very head shrinky of me! ).

[WraithWatcher]

Well you have proved a point but not the one you have stated. Basically accept responsibility for what you post and what you posted was against the forum rules, the KKK reference was a deliberate insult. Stop making excuses for your actions. Start expressing your opinion politely and respectfully and express your opinion and your opinion alone. I am so tired of seeing people speaking as if they were representing whole groups of people "we antis", "we pros", "the fans". It's what the Vision Statement is all about getting rid of hate, intolerance and bullying.

You have concerns so go ahead and express them politely. However I must admit that I do not share your concern about censorship.

For me I am a fan of Stargate though I am extremely critical of certain parts of the franchise and participate in Anti threads so if you are labelling people then I suppose I'm "an Anti" though I prefer to call myself a fan who has some critical views. So what does the new vision mean for me?

It means that I'll no longer be able to post in the Anti S10 thread in the SG-1 forum (I gave up on the Anti threads in SGA a while ago). Though I hardly do that anymore after all SG-1 is over and done with. So where will I post in future? In the same places I post now except that particular thread and maybe more in the episode discussion threads and the General discussion thread. It isn't a problem, I don't have to silence my distaste for certain aspects, all that is required of me is that I do so with respect and tolerate people with other opinions and not indulge in behaviour patterns that got GW to the point it is now.

It means that with SGU starting up I'll watch the show and decide if I like it enough to keep watching (and if I'm watching it there has to be some level of enjoyment I'm getting out of it). I can offer my opinion whether it be praise or criticism but if I decide I don't like it at all then I am asked to please state my case and then go find a sub forum where I am a fan. If I don't like it at all I might put a post or two into General discussion about how the problems I perceive with the writing crew persisted over to the new show but I won't be harping on it endlessly repeating the same things and trying to hijack threads to get my opinion across.

My opinion won't be censored.

Actually I am finding your intolerance just as annoying as several of the "pros" pontificating about how the anti threads are the problem. I was initially worried about the wording of the Vision Statement but the GW team have acknowledge that concern of some people and will look at it when Darren gets back. I'll hold any further objections in that regard until I see the next draft.

Do I really care.. NO because whatever I say will be ignored in ln most anyway

I don't need to apologize for anything because I have not denied stating it in the first place, it's there in B&W

I use the Anti & Pros because that is what everyone else has been referring to in this thread, I initially came in here to express views that I had seen elsewhere but no one cared.

Yes & what caused all this hatred & a post which is exactly what the statement wants to get rid of, the refusal of the Mods to acknowledge that not all members appreciate the way they want to deny some people the right to have their own space like the rights of everyone else

in other words the suppression of some people's views which is a Dictatorship

I applaud you for finding a general discussion to post your views but as you said yourself, That is your opinion, NOT Mine & not several other members either

If I don't wish to be submitted to slash/shipping or other threads, that is my right & I should not have to be forced into posting in a thread where I have to view such material in order to find other people who share my views especially when everyone else in C&R threads & other PRO threads are allowed their own space

I've already stated this before so won't bother rehashing it again, I'm not supposed to keep rehashing negatives in the new VISION Statement which is what some of you hope because basically you want us to quit being negative after the first initial post & move on, in other words & yes I will repeat it, CENSORSHIP

[flynn1959]

But if you consistently lay all the blame on everyone else, you are taking no responsibility for your own actions. And, at the risk of making this comment specific to you, in this very thread you have already had a post deleted because it was not in keeping with GW's rules. You alone are in control of an responsible for how you respond to other people's actions - even if they are hostile and rule-breaking, you don't have to respond in kind. You can report it and move on instead of continuing the argument. And you are responsible for how you post and for doing your best to make sure that the way you post your opinions is not going to upset others. I think the whole point of the vision statement is that we all accept that responsibility and, in a way, become our own moderators.

Okay, I have no objection to this being specific to me.

I fail to see how it is possible not to lay the blame on the people who actually make these comments. As far as I know, no one is holding a gun to their heads and telling them what to write. I was talking specifically about private messages - in reps, pm's and e-mails etc. So you have no idea how I have responded, do you? For your information, I have never responded to the ones that I consider are, shall we just say, a little over the top. I have reported them and left it at that. I have never engaged in conversation or continued to argue with people like that.

The post that was deleted, (correctly imo and if it had not been deleted by a mod I was going to do it myself) was written in haste and anger. I should not have named those bullies in public, that was wrong of me. And in one case was somewhat unfair as the person wasn't really being nasty.

The fact remains, however, that no one deserves to receive vile, nasty, rude, racist comments or indeed death threats -I kid you not!- because of something they post on a forum. No matter how negative that initial post may be. Do you not agree with that?

Imagine someone posting that they thought chacter X was the best character in the history of tv, that she was an amazing role model for young girls. Fine and quite within the rules, but now imagine someone reading that post who doesn't agree with it. Someone who gets very upset by it. Would you think it was the original poster's fault if the reader then sent that person an abusive pm?

[WraithWatcher]

I'd also just like to point out the meaning of the word Censorship to the members as stated on Wikipedia

Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material